[TANGO-L] Alberto is talking to himself

[Ecsedy Áron <aron @MILONGA.HU>]

Since on ATOF this mailing list so often comes up as the subject, I've
decided to entertain you with some events at Argentine Tango Open Forum:

I've just been moderated out by our beloved Alberto Paz for simply
contributing to the list... (he especially disliked that I made a reference
to Uruguay concerning tango) For those not familiar with his achievements,
please search around in the Tango-L archives or just delete this message.

I've included the original message by him posted to himself (it is kinda
typical...) on the list, then my intended post, then the message I got from
him when he rejected the post (as the owner of the list).

The interesting part is that he just assured someone on the list less than
24 hours ago that on ATOF people are not censored (vs. Tango-L!!!):

" So feel 
> special that in this forum we don't ban or unwelcome anybody 
> on account of behavior.
> 
> My take on your modest proposal was mostly offered as an 
> antidote for some masochist, impressive and gullible lurker 
> friends who are members of that illustrious list which, 
> according to you, legislates behavior and bans or not welcome 
> people according to some criteria which is contradictory, 
> given the repulsive nature of the majority of its contents."

Obviously, I expected this much from him after what happened before on
Tango-L, so I am not upset. It is just plain funny. 

Cheers,
Aron

********original post by AP

> -----Original Message-----
> From: argentine-tango  @yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:argentine-tango  @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TangoMan
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:12 PM
> To: ATOF
> Subject: [ATOF] Memo to self
> 
> The Argentine tango was first conceived as the illegitimate 
> child of the poor, the slaves, and the less-than-respectable 
> members of a simmering socially challenged and 
> disenfranchised class. By the time it became of age, it had 
> grown into a respectable role model for a new generation of 
> porteños, the inhabitants of Buenos Aires, who took pride in 
> the interpretation of the music, the versification of its 
> songs and the crafting of a genial choreography that is 
> purely based on the expression of emotions and the ritual of 
> the embrace.
> 
> Every porteño claims it rightfully as their unique patrimony 
> and their gift to the world. No claim is made though about 
> the conglomerate of emotions, feelings and other traits that 
> characterizes the human race.
> 
> That is why people can embrace the Tango as their own 
> anywhere, anytime. It?s a spontaneous love affair that no 
> logical reasoning can define. Total strangers connecting at 
> the floor level in a mystical realization that there is 
> something that transcends rational thought to be shared.
> 
> The tango already exists for the world to enjoy and have a 
> life in it. It has so much to offer in a multidimensional 
> sort of ways that one lifetime is not enough to go around at 
> least once. That is why, intruders, poachers and scavengers 
> who want to make it something else encounter rejection and 
> face challenges. They are not thrilled with just being 
> allowed to take the tango out of Argentina, they want to take 
> the Argentina out of the tango.
> 
> The tango ignites a kaleidoscopic array of emotions that 
> includes sweet love, pure passion, blind faith, admiration, 
> respect, friendship, jealousy, envy and oddly occasional 
> spontaneous outbursts of hate. They all form part of the 
> dynamics available to every single Tango community around the 
> world. Good and bad emotions somehow find in the Tango a 
> redeeming reason to exist within the truth or lie of the 
> embrace because they all form part of the joy and sorrow of a 
> brief life stopover on the way to eternal solitude.
> 
> Alberto Paz


*****my (intended) post


> The Argentine tango was first conceived as the illegitimate child of 
> the poor, the slaves, and the less-than-respectable members of a 
> simmering socially challenged and
[...]
> grown into a respectable role model for a new generation of porteños, 
> the inhabitants of Buenos Aires, who took pride in
[...]
> the conglomerate of emotions, feelings and other traits that 
> characterizes the human race.
[...]
> That is why people can embrace the Tango as their own anywhere, 
> anytime. It?s a spontaneous love affair that no

I believe there is nothing mystical about this: tango has a little from the
values and vices of almost every social class, using the cultural heritage
of dozens of ethnicities, mixed in the pan of the developing Buenos Aires
and Montevideo, then later involving more than half the planet in the
process. No suprise people of any class and nationality will find something
interesting in it.

> face challenges. They are not thrilled with just being allowed to take 
> the tango out of Argentina, they want to take the Argentina out of the 
> tango.

Hmm. Ask the Uruguayans about that... :)) Anyway, I do not think that anyone
would want to take tango from Argentina, as these things don't belong to a
nation. It belongs to the people performing it - nationality does not really
play a role there. Just a few examples: ballet is a French made thing, it
was 'French' for centuries. However, a century ago nobody would have argued
that ballet is owned and ruled by the Russians... Or how about soccer? It is
British isn't it? Why do Argentines even bother to try? I mean: what they do
is not soccer then, I guess...

I think it is quite normal for any group to protect their interests if they
can. As the popular name of tango is not tango rioplatense or tango de
urugay, but argentine tango, the reaction is normal. However, I find it
strange in a sense: most good dancers are from Argentina, due to the
economic problems in AR and the strong government support this will probably
continue, not to mention the hunger for everything 'latin' and 'authentic'
in the Northern hemisphere. There is absolutely no need to link mystical
powers with an Argentine passport. Not the passport makes the dancer, but
the dancing...

Cheers,
Aron


****rejection message:

>I believe there is nothing mystical about this: tango has a little from 
>the values and vices of almost every social class, using the cultural 
>heritage of dozens of ethnicities, mixed in the pan of the developing 
>Buenos Aires and Montevideo, then later involving more than half the 
>planet in the process. No suprise people of any class and nationality 
>will find something interesting in it.

You are entitled to believe anything that justifies your existence.
I, for one, have no time to listen to non sense such as ask the Uruguayans.
Especially when it comes mascaraded under a racist subtext which is no
longer accepted in civilized societies.

Argentina really hurts, don't cry for me ballerina...

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