Re: [TANGO-L] Tango Dialects: cross = mini boleo

[Iron Logic <railogic @yahoo.com>]

I dont lead the cross, but I think it is easier to think of cross as mini front boleo.

>From the leaders perspective, if you really want to lead a cross:

* Lead the front cross, interrupt early, like you are now going to lead a back cross

* Stop or lead a weight change before she uncrosses.



Ofcourse it is the same for women, it is as if she starts a front cross, then changes her mind straightens to face the leader.

you can explain the hip positions accordingly, hip position in the end is opposite of what it would be during a front cross.

I am in the "cross is front cross of turn to left" camp. Well if a beginner is going to be confused may be that is a different problem.

Jay Rabe <jayrabe   @HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:2 cents on several topics...

I agree with Astrid and others that, when you get to step #4, the woman is
going to take a step with her left foot, and the only step that maintains
the connection and brings her back in front of her leader is a fwd cross.
Yes, the grapevine/turn explanation works too, but that seems overly
complicated vs. the simpler principle of just maintaining the connection.
-----

I used to lead the cross all the time, with an extra rotation CW (sort of a
"wind up"), then returning with a CCW rotation as I close with my right on
5, bringing the woman back in front of me. But I find that it's very
situational, that is, sometimes, with some followers, especially beginners,
I have to almost "over-lead" it, to keep them from stepping back and losing
the connection, while with more experienced followers it's almost not
necessary to lead it at all.
-----

I too have seen some leaders, with sensitive followers who are not on
automatic pilot, lead a cross, then decline to lead the weight change,
giving the option of leading a reversal to a left side step, back step, or a
back ocho for the woman (Robin Thomas and Jennifer Bratt of NY come to
mind).
-----

While it's true that a cross is categorically equivalent to a front ocho, I
don't find that analysis helpful at all, since they differ so markedly in
the amount of hip rotation as to be quite different steps.


J in Portland
www.TangoMoments.com



----Original Message Follows----
From: Clint Rauscher

Hi Daniel,

This email came in as I was responding to the earlier.

> For example ,my mother ,does not know the basic 8
> patern and she shall not collect in front on the man
> indication...instead she will pivot to take a forward
> left foot step in a half ocho way at that moment...to
> continue with any other ,perhaps giro or linear.

This is exactly my point.. your mother is following her leader.. if her
leader did not ask for a cross then she will collect with her feet side by
side and be ready for the next movement. I would argue that even the weight
change at the end of the cross is lead. You could lead a follow to cross but
not take weight on her left foot and then swing it out.. her putting weight
on her left foot (the foot crossing in front) would come from her sense of
you settling onto your right foot at the end of leading the cross. Now this
is very difficult.. most all follows will go ahead and put that left foot
down if you lead the cross which I would not argue with.. that is what you
would want 99% of the time, but technically they should weight for a weight
change from you before they change their weight.

Going back to the first email when you spoke of the old milongueros not
leading the cross.. I have seen teachers not teach leading the cross in the
chest.. but noticed that they do indeed do that. It is very slight and
because they have been leading so long they can do it and not know that they
are doing it. Then the leaders in their class try leading it flat because
that is what it looked like the teacher was doing, when in fact the leader
was leading it with their chest if you look very very closely.

Clint