Re: [TANGO-L] True tango and nuevo tango [Konstantin]

[Kos.Zahariev @EC.GC.CA]

 >
 >Konstantin writes:
 >
 >(*) I think the substance involves the charge that the new tango is divorced
 >from the music and the partnership (to different extents), and that it is
 >not
 >a strictly improvisational dance anymore in that some or a lot of the
 >steps/sequences cannot be reliably led to a person who has no prior
 >knowledge
 >of them. I would love people to address that instead of trying to insult the
 >milongueros or the person that posted the link to the article.
 >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay Rabe writes:

 >
 >Konstantin, I agree completely. So here's my 2 cents.
 >
 >     IMO Bartek polarized the far extremes of the wide continuum that is the
 >total of Argentine Tango, or Argentine-Tango-inspired styles (the latter
 >term might be more acceptable to those who contend that the show styles are
 >not "real" tango...)
 >     I agree that he is probably accurate in his definition of both
 >extremes, listing valid characteristics that describe those two FAR EXTREME
 >polarities.
[del]
 >     In my experience in the USA, admittedly limited to 4 cities/states,
 >almost no one dances either of those two extreme styles. Almost everyone
 >dances somewhere in between. Some are more milonguero, some are more showy.
[del]
 >     Dealing with extremes can be illustrative from an academic point of
 >view in order to set the boundaries, but in dealing with the wide variation
 >of styles in the middle, it's almost worthless.


Well I agree in that I was just thinking along similar lines. It is likely
that Bartek is using hyperbolization as an illustrative technique to highlight
the negative tendencies that maybe he has seen developing, thus his definition
of new tango, for the purposes of the article, encompasses the extreme and
almost nothing else. In fact, it can be interpreted that by listing the
[negative] characteristics of the new tango he is indeed giving a precise
definition of what the term means for the purposes of his article.

Consequently, we will see here testimonials as to how the tango nuevo
different people have seen does not have some or almost all of the features on
that list. However technically Bartek's assertions are effectively, if
trivially, immune from all these rebuttals because anything that does not have
all the listed features clearly does not fit the definition of new tango in
his article :-)

More seriously, there is a large grey zone and Bartek's article is not
addressing it. I would have enjoyed a detailed analysis from him as well.



 >     To sort of diverge into specifics...
 >     I've taken several workshops with Miriam and Hugo, who I think typify
 >the category of instructors that Bartek rails against. They teach very long,
 >difficult, complex patterns, that often are only usable in their entirety on
 >a performance dancefloor. And while I've "had my fill" and don't enroll in
 >their classes anymore, I must say I learned a lot by studying with them.
 >Mainly, their patterns are so complex, with such unusual changes between
 >segments, that they require a depth of analysis of body/foot position and
 >dynamics that is really on the same level as the analysis that Gustavo and
 >Fabian apply in their Tango Nuevo system. In order to do their patterns, you
 >must have an extraordinary attention to detail and precision in your steps
 >and timing. Bartek may call that athletic, but I believe it is a skill that
 >benefits any tango dancer.


Absolutely, one can always take advantage of particular analyses or methods
and techniques even if one does not agree with some more extreme examples of
where some practising these have taken them.

Incidentally, Bartek's choice in his article, talking about the new tango
extremes may not be arbitrary if he perceives the current extreme as the
logical end or direction where all in the continuum may eventually be heading
towards _unless_ one stays true to the broad characteristics or aspects of
tango argentino - the dance expressing the tango argentino music, having a
connection with the dancing partner, and tango as an improvisational dance,
being three fundamental ones of these. Thus I am inclined to interpret his
article along those lines.

One of these aspects that I have seen developing, and I have no well-formed
idea if it is correlated with 'new tango' dancing practitioners or has other
underlying causes, is the separation of tango argentino the dance from tango
argentino the music. My personal view is that the dance is subordinate to the
music in the sense that it expresses the music, and the music is the soul of
the dance. I don't know if this perceived separation would facilitate the
extremes Bartek is warning against, but it just might, and in any case I do
not see it as a positive development; admittedly, though, it seems confined
mostly to North America.

Best regards,
        Konstantin

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