Re: [TANGO-L] human words for human beings (was: teaching walking back ochos)

[Andrew <andrew @ORCADIGITAL.COM>]

I understand and empathize with your suggestion, and don't want to start a
long thread on pc speech, but I think there are also some reasons to use
this phrasing, and as some sort of terminology has to be used in a lot of
the posts to any tango list, thus making this subject fairly relevant, it
seems like it might be alright to post an alternative viewpoint to the list
in reply.

I used the terms pretty intentionally, but perhaps with a different
"reading" than you're taking from them.  The way I usually see these posts
or articles written refer to the man and the woman - the man does this, the
woman does that .. I find this somewhat troubling due to the fact that
several of my favorite leads are women, and that I like to follow.  As such,
I need some way of referring to the dance roles with consistent gender
neutrality.  If I'm referring to people off the floor, and what they're
doing, I would not refer to them by using role names.  However, if - as
another example - I am referring to employees in my company, and am
referring to company business, I may be likely - without dehumanizing
anyone - to refer to to people by the names of their roles/positions - the
engineer will do this, the tech writer will work with the support person to
do that, the marketing people will handle this part of the campaign while
the CEO and VP Finance will take care of this.  I, the janitor, will take
care of the coffee spill .. ;)

Anyhow, within a framework of a dance discussion, in a dance that at it's
core involves a distinct separation of roles between the lead and follow -
this is not to say there is a difference in importance between the roles,
nor have I implied such - even when the roles are switched, or the lead is
swapped back and forth, there is always this lead and follow aspect to the
dance - providing detailed descriptions of what the (equal!) partners are
doing, and doing so without gender specificity, suggests either referring to
"lead" and "follow" - referring only to the roles within the role of the
dance - or to constantly saying "the one who leads does this, then the one
who follows does that, then the one who leads takes the one who follows
around until the one who leads can ... " etc etc, which is unduly clunky for
my compositional comfort.

It also seems like suggesting that saying that this phrasing dehumanizes the
one who follows, but not mentioning the lead, suggests that there is
something inherently "less" about the follow role, which I disagree with ..
the follow role, the follow, is in every way equal in importance to that of
the lead - there is no "inequity" between a lead and a follow role for me,
as you suggest .. it (the follow role) is a consensual, powerful role, and
referring to someone as a "follow" within the confines of step descriptions
shouldn't imply anything more negative than referring to someone as "lead"
within them.

Anyhow, I do understand your concerns, but I think this syntax also has some
advantages, and following does not seem like a negative role to me ..
particularly as I enjoy following, and don't mind being referred to as a
follow for descriptive purposes while I am doing so.  I hope we can agree to
disagree.  :)  I'd also wholeheartedly agree with part of your concern,
which is that the follow / one who follows often does get taken for granted
and treated like a doll in classes as well as on the floor .. certainly
something to ameliorate.

Yours sincerely,
  Andrew

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marisa Holmes" <mariholmes @YAHOO.COM>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 7:11 AM
Subject: [TANGO-L] human words for human beings (was: teaching walking back
ochos)


> > ski tracks.  Step forward a few times, then change
> > weight "without" your follow again, and you're back
> > to walking.
>
> Not to criticize Andrew in particular (especially
> since I think his description of how to teach the lead
> for back ochos is well-thought out and may well be
> very good - have to try it).  But I am always
> disconcerted to read postings on this list where one
> partner is called the "leader" and the other the
> "follow."  The person leading is a "leader"; the
> person following is a "follower"; the act of leading
> is the "lead" (or mark). I suppose if "follow" were
> anything it would be the act of following.  But it is
> not a word for a human being.
>
> I know it's probably local slang in some places, and I
> know that language is flexible.   (I also know that
> quibbling about words leads to long boring posts from
> the self-righteous, and I hope I am not one of them -
> but you never can tell...)  But this usage makes me
> think about how much tango is thought of in terms of
> the leaders, how much instruction is directed at the
> leaders, and how often the followers become nameless,
> faceless pieces of equipment - necessary for the
> dance, but not quite participants.  I'm afraid calling
> people "follows" reinforces the inequity.
>
> I have followed for several years, during which time I
> have been acutely aware of periods of instruction and
> dance in which my role could practically have been
> fulfilled by an inflatable doll for all the difference
> it made to the instructor or the leader.  I am aware
> of adopting the same mindset sometimes when I am
> working on the lead - and it doesn't make me feel good
> about myself.  But there it is.  I am trying to
> overcome this mindset, and I invite others to do so
> also.  First item on the agenda: let's call humans by
> words that refer to active beings, rather than
> abstract concepts.
>
> Cheers!
> Marisa
>
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