The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 21 Sep 2000
to 22 Sep 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:00:30 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 21 Sep 2000 to 22 Sep 2000 (#2000-256)
There are 5 messages totalling 278 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. The best Tango partner
2. Tango Lyrics
3. Show Tango- What other dance? (2)
4. Flintstones tango
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:14:59 -0400
From: Suzanne MacGeorge <slats @MAIL.OEONLINE.COM>
Subject: The best Tango partner
After reading so many comments about whether it is better for couples to
dance Tango, versus singles, I feel the need to send in our humble opinion.
My husband and I have a wonderful relationship both on and off the dance
floor.
We both fell in love with the Tango nearly five years ago and we have
participated in many workshops all over the country and take lessons weekly
with a wonderful local teacher. (Lori Burton)
We feel the Tango is another expression of our love and is like a piece of
poetry that can never be expressed in any other way. Every dance we share
is a reflection of our love.
It is very sensual and interesting to play during the slow parts of the
music and exciting and enhancing during the fast parts.
Don't get me wrong -- we both dance with other people; after all, Tango is
also a social dance and a social diversion. It is interesting to see how
others lead and follow.
But our dancing together is like fine wine -- it only gets better with age.
The Tangos we share together on the dance floor enhance our lives. We
savor every moment.
Best Regards,
Suzanne & Doug MacGeorge
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:47:20 +0300
From: Aydogan Arkis <aydoganarkis @SUPERONLINE.COM>
Subject: Tango Lyrics
Hi List,
Does anyone knows where I can find tango lyrics in English on internet ?
Thanks in advance,
Aydogan.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:14:51 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi-SMC Argentina- HQ <adm @SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Show Tango- What other dance?
Asunto: Re: Show Tango- What other dance?
Astrid wrote :> What is the difference between salon tango and tango
milonguero, close > embrace salon tango, close embrace style...?
Salon tango is a kind of tango that dislike some movements of the so c=
alled
tango milonga .
I am trying to think of a comparison of an european country .
Let s think of the waltzes danced in the courtrooms of Vienna ( Sissi m=
ovies
like)
Now let s think of the polka danced at the pubs of Vienna on those days=
, by
the humble people.
It seems tango salon is a label or a cliche to separate the milonga sty=
le
dancing.
In milonga dancing you make more movements with your hips , you "place"=
your
steps in a different shape . Milonga roots are very close to candombe ,=
the
afroamerican dance brought by negro slaves to the Rio de la Plata basin=
=2E
Rio de la Plata basin marks the natural limit of two countries, Argenti=
na &
Uruguay. In Argentina few negroes remained after the yellow fever happe=
ned
at the end of XIX century.
But in Uruguay there is still a big afroamerican community, and they ke=
ep
their candombe alive & kicking. They have also carnival parades called
"murgas", which also are coming back into Argentina little by little.
Milonga is the name of the music , milonga is the name of the ballroom.=
In
fact, argentineans when speaking about going to dance , say "let s go =
to a
milonga".
But you have a lot of places in Buenos Aires called with the general na=
me
milongas , with different aspect
Neighbourhood clubs like Sunderland, Almagro,Sin Rumbo,Ni=F1o Bien
Dancing ball rooms like SAlon Canning,Club Gricel ,Club Suboficiale=
s
Armada
Open places in summer like La Terraza (ohh what a lovely place at n=
ight
in summer with a full moon over the centennial palmtrees .....) , C=
lub
Imos
Restaurants or caffeteria that hire the place for some nights durin=
g the
week,
like La Viruta , Confiteria del Golf , El Morocco,
Open places in a square ,like La Glorieta
So you see, there are several kinds of places ( and I am missing a lot,
because I am quoting only where I have been .On sundays you can have a=
s
many as 50 places open from 2 pm to the small hours of monday to
dance,around Buenos Aires).
I think that if a person learns to dance "tango salon" he is missing al=
l the
excitement of milonga . Is a personal decision, as every decision in li=
fe.
Keep well everybody
alberto
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:34:25 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Show Tango- What other dance?
Astrid's question ...
>
Taking the risk of having everybody groan, let me ask you again the same
question that everybody seems to ignore when I ask it:
What is the difference between salon tango and tango milonguero, close
embrace salon tango, close embrace style...?
<
... is quite relevant, and I intend to supply my own full answer one day.
However I must ask her to be patient. I am far from done with the issue of
show versus social. In fact her posting anticipates central points that I
intend to "develop" (i.e., write endlessly about). Meanwhile, past answers by
SERGIO will do quite well. I do not agree with his style characterizations
100%, but the differences are fairly inconsequential.
As she learned more tango, Astrid saw less and less of a difference between
what I believe she dances (which I call salon style, or classical salon, and
which can and should be danced as CLOSE as the move permits, but with a
flexible embrace) and a lot of the recent so called "show tango". The reason
is that they are, for the trained eye, simply individual variants of one same
species. In milonguero (apilado) the embrace is solid, not flexible, the
connection is "unibody", and most of the moves that Astrid made notes about
are either not done at all, or done in a different way --- adapted to the
"solid" embrace. Literally, apilado means "piled up", and it is very poorly
translated by "close embrace".
As to the sour grapes theory, I am convinced that there is more than
something to it. I intend to be writing also about that in continuation/s of
my "Show Tango" posting. I agree basically with de Los Angeles in his
original posting, etc. I have been told I should start worrying about that.
But what is life without a pinch of risk and a dash of recklessness?
Meanwhile, an excellent posting by William Alsup (Re: Tango Shows) made its
appearance. He makes / re-iterates critical points that need pounding on
until the tango floors of the world are rid of drunk drivers. He does so very
precisely and comprehensively. I even agree with his statement that we should
not be dividing the world of tango in camps, in particular into closed vs
open, or show vs social, because it is not useful to do so. However there is
an implied and very significant disagreement underneath the superficial
agreement on these latter issues.
First I do not want to divide tango into camps, because what I object to
above all is precisely the very idea that differences in way of dancing
should lead to a war of insults, mutual rejection and snubbing. Nobody needs
to be chided for making camps now: they have been made by famous
practitioners on both "sides", most notably Tete and Susana Miller on the
milonguero side. We did not invent the attitudes that exist. We can only
fight them (my option), else tolerate or even approve them.
Second I do not want to distinguish close vs open, because that is a very
bad, very misleading, distinguishing criterion when comparing the current
dominant approaches to tango dancing. Likewise, I am not interested in social
vs show. That much should be crystal clear. Furthermore, I believe that
labeling classical salon show (stage, etc) is a despicable language
manipulation trick that, should it be taken serious by the public at large,
constitutes a gratuitous insult to many of the greatest figures in the
history of the tango, including the handful of dancers that shaped /
consolidated (back circa 1940) the entire future of everything that we call
today (rightly or wrongly) the tango argentino (the dance).
Thirdly I do not want to avoid recognizing differences that do exist. That
will not clear the air, and the distinctions are quite productive. I do not
see it as progress to take red and blue and say that they are merely two
shades of purple. I never heard (in person or through any medium) an
argentinean tango professional stating that milonguero and [classical] salon
are not clearly different. Anybody can see that they are clearly different. I
heard reports of confused talk about [degrees of] embrace closeness being
inconsequential (it is all the same technique, etc); but the purported
authors of this talk are not Argentine, they are converts. Being aware of the
differences (i.e., being aware of the facts) helps immunize against bigoted
"theories". After all, the existence of such variety is enriching, not
impoverishing. Certainly not a "problem". Divisive only in the eyes of those
who are in denial. Even those who recognize the differences, but then take
the eclectic route, the route of ONE TANGO and let us mishmash styles, ignore
the contrasts, and so on, do not add to our tango wealth, they detract from
it.
By the way, a very interesting statement about the two dominant styles has
been made on 8A00 by monaloca. I do not know who s/he is, I wish I did, but
you can be sure s/he is neither mona nor loca. The posting is well worth
going back and re-reading.
Now, shall we quibble about names? That is OK; but for better and for worse
milonguero (and in Spanish apilado, as a name for the hold used, or for the
style) has become an unambiguous designator. The objection that milongueros
do not all dance milonguero (I would rather say, milongueros existed much
before milonguero) is frivolous. Milonguero is just a label. Find a better
one and I will use it. The same for salon. It is of similarly uncertain
pedigree. Spanish speakers are not great at naming things, they get lost in
legitimacy questions, and seem to like a little confusion. But salon style
was pretty unambiguous, at least until some milongueros thought that THEIRS
was really the style that should be danced in salons. So now they co-opted
the term and confusion reigns. Salon is just a label. Find a better one and I
will use it.
Cheers,
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:43:51 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Flintstones tango
For all of you who asked what the "Flintstones tango" music is, my secret
informer replies:
"My preferences on Flintstones music are Biagi and
Hector Varela, of course early D'Arienzo, master of Biagi and Varela. But
when I want to surprise the dancers I play early Piazzolla...they have no
idea
what they are dancing, because they know only the later Piazzolla, The
non-for-dancing Piazzolla. But when you listen to the early
Piazzolla...great
rhythm!"
End of TANGO-L Digest - 21 Sep 2000 to 22 Sep 2000 (#2000-256)
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