The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 13 Sep 2000
to 14 Sep 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 03:00:42 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 13 Sep 2000 to 14 Sep 2000 (#2000-248)
There are 16 messages totalling 609 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tango Pasion (2)
2. What was it like for women in the Golden Age? (3)
3. Thanks to all for Milonguero Labor Day Weekend
4. ColorTango CD (2)
5. The Tango Guesthouse (3)
6. Order on the dance floor (2)
7. Forever Tango
8. tango - los angeles vs san francisco
9. Subject: Forever Tango
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:31:18 +1000
From: Sandy Smith <sg.smith @QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Tango Pasion
>John Sullivan commented:
>Now, someone has mentioned another show - "Tango Pasion". It is owned, I
>believe, by the famous orchestra - "Sexteto Mayor". The music is as good as it
>gets. Their dancers, on the other hand, are as horrible as one can
>imagine. No.
>They are actually much worse than that. They all (with one exception) are folk
>dancers, who have no clue as to what tango is. These "stars" will not be
>caught
>dead in a milonga in Buenos Aires, and they will never dance Tango in any
>milonga in your city. Salsa - yes. Mirengue - Yes-Yes!!! But Tango -
>sorry, No.
>And you should all be thankful for that. But "Sexteto Mayor" are fun to watch
>and listen to.
Sorry to disagree John, maybe we saw different shows.
I saw Tango Pasion in Australia about 2 years ago & they were wonderful, as
were Sexteto Mayor. I also had the thrill of seeing the same show for free
in a park under a full moon in Bs As last February. The thousands of
portenos who flocked to see it were equally thrilled, by the music and the
dancing which was definitely tango fantasia.
Incidentally, I met one of the dancers at Rodolfo Dinzel's studio, where
she was honoured as being one of his star students.
sandy
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:28:00 +0900
From: astrid <astrid @RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: What was it like for women in the Golden Age?
The only thing I really miss about the Golden Age and especially the ages
before that in Argentina, is that the men outnumbered the women, and all the
men had to compete with each other in becoming better dancers. In those days
a girl could become a milonguera and be payed for dancing with the men that
came to that milonga. It was considered to be prestige to have your own
milonguera.
Nowadays the situation seems to have been turned upside down and I have
heard suggestions that a woman who wants to dance should:
a: pay for the privilege of dancing with a milonguero
b: discretely hire someone to dance with her in Bs.As.
c: let all the men attend our practica for free
d: that men will not dance with a woman who is not good enough a dancer
e: that men will not dance with a woman because she is too good a dancer
f: that everything gets out of hand if the women become the hunters
g: that women should ask the men if they want to dance
h: that women should not ask the men because they will scare them away
i: that women should praise a man's dance skill if they want him to dance
with her
j: that women should ask a man for a promise to dance with her some time
l: that milongueros in Bs.As. only dance with tourists because they are
after their money
Oh, yes, how I long for the old days when women were considered precious and
treated like it was an honor to dance with them, and men would not go to a
milonga unless they were sure the women would not reject them for their poor
dancing.
Come on, guys, flame me for that. ; )
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:56:52 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: What was it like for women in the Golden Age?
astrid wrote:
> f: that everything gets out of hand if the women become the hunters
There was much talk about this a while ago around the time
the Tango documentary by Robert Duvall was being aired on
PBS(?). Before the show(on TV) there were some ads about a
show about a tiger and another something to do with women
where one woman comments:
"We are not the hunters but we choose the hunter..."
I think that quote actually belongs to Greta Garbo
or Camille Paglia or someone like that(because I have
heard/read it before).
In any case, I do not think the situation has changed
since Ovid -- women does not ask but makes the man ask
her-- perhaps subtle art in itself(and she could even
push it further...make the man ask and then say 'no!'
...as long she is aware of that there consequences for
doing that).
rajan.
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:09:21 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Thanks to all for Milonguero Labor Day Weekend
I'd like to express thanks to everyone who came to visit and everyone
who helped out with the Milonguero Weekend in Denver. In the spirit
of a Tango Exchange, so many contributed that there are too many to
thank individually.
I still haven't come down from all the good energy and dances.
Tango Colorado deserves special thanks for doing the free milonga and
Tango Barbecue on Sunday. Also the Mercury Cafe for providing
classroom space and having the Friday and Saturday milongas.
We had about 60 visitors, who added to our regulars, resulting in
almost 200 people for the Friday milonga and about 130 or so for
Saturday and Sunday. The nice thing is that the visitors
approximately doubled the number of our top dancers.
One could have danced 30 hours from Friday evening through the wee
hours of Monday morning. My feet were so tired on Saturday that I sat
a lot, but by Sunday evening when my responsibilities ended, and
Robert Hauk put on some high-energy D'Arienzo, I got a second wind
that carried me through to Monday morning.
Most fun I've had since Buenos Aires!
I had expected people would come primarily for the dancing, as these
people are first and foremost fanatical tango dancers, (you know, the
ones who always close the milongas in their home towns). It was
Robinne Grey expressed the opinion that perhaps classes shouldn't be
part of a tango exchange.
The interesting thing about the classes were the extent to which they
helped create a community. 90% of the visitors took part in the
classes, which served as the most effective way of mixing and getting
to know each other.
- We only had Intermediate level classes.
- The advanced dancers contributed and had fun
- The handful of beginners were gracefully included
- Everybody exchanged partners
- The material was accessible to all, yet offered something for everyone
- Classes were inexpensive.
Future events?
Everyone is asking, so I have to say that I also can't wait to have
it happen again next year...if not sooner! I know that Portland and
Atlanta want to do something similar.
Visitors to Colorado are welcome at any time, of course...check the
website for likely weekends. In particular note the weekends when Dan
Diaz brings The Tango Camerata. The weekend before Thanksgiving will
have a larger than normal number of musicians, including Pablo Aslan
who will do a musicality workshop. Also our Christmas Party weekend
has two big milongas. This is usually scheduled for the first weekend
in December...but is subject at the moment to a question mark
regarding the exact date. (Please confirm prior to buying tickets).
http://www.tango.org/dance
Fast facts about the Denver Milonguero Tango Weekend:
Tango Exhibitions:
- Zero
Ganchos per hour
- Less than one
Transcendant Sunsets:
- One
Major Line of Dance violations:
- One
Hours of dancing:
- Thirty: (5/9/16 Fri/Sat/Sun)
Stimulant of choice:
- Juan D'Arienzo
Tango Cities represented:
- Denver, Aspen, Atlanta, Salt Lake, Los Angeles, San Francisco,
Portland, Los Angeles, Seattle, Albuquerque, Austin, Ketchum ID,
Minneapolis, New York, Florida, St Louis & Mt Vernon, MO,
Cost for all weekend classes & milongas:
- $65
--
Tom Stermitz
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime
http://www.tango.org/dance
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:38:16 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: ColorTango CD
The Orquesta Color Tango CD, "Timeless Tango" has been re-released as
a part of the series of CDs that are called the Story of Tango on the
La Mariposa label (Germany).
--Steve de Tejas
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: ColorTango CD
Author: "Ruddy Zelaya" <ruddy.zelaya @eng.sun.com> at notesmail
Date: 9/12/00 6:11 PM
Hi Melinda,
Color Tango is composed of former Pugliese inspired musicians
not Piazzolla's. As an aside, "Color Tango" is the name of one
of Pugliese's compositions. The band formed in 1989, debuted in
1990 in Holland and has produced several CDs (5 according to their
discography). Unfortunatelly, some of the CDs have been re-titled depending
on the producing label. Anyway, their latest one, released this year,
is "Color Tango - Con Estilo... Para Bailar 2" That one just might
be the one you heard. It basically is a "Best of..." of Pugliese
hits plus some others played with the distinct "yumba" beat that
was Pugliese's signature. The first one in the series "Con Estilo..."
can be found for sale at http://www.puentealtango.com/Tango/cds/color.htm
Another one is on the "Story Of The Tango: Vol. 2 - Orquesta Color Tango"
and can be had at: http://www.mimusica.com/7783300030472.html
I prefer the last two over their first three.
Here's their discography.
1990 "COLOR TANGO" Boudisque Record ( Holanda)
1994 "A TODA ORQUESTA" EPSA (Argentina)
1996 "TIMELESS TANGO" Forever Music (USA)
1997 "CON ESTILO PARA BAILAR" Tecnodisc (Argentina)
2000 "CON ESTILO PARA BAILAR 2" Tecnodisc (Argentina)
The last four you can order direct from http://www.zivals.com
The first one you can order from several european cd stores
Good luck,
--
ruddy
REMINDER: Announcements of Tango events or products should be sent to
Tango-A and not to TANGO-L. To subscribe to Tango-A, send the
command "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:49:58 -0400
From: Hillary Ross <hross @MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Tango Guesthouse
Larry wrote:
>The Tango Guesthouse looks very appealing because of the company
>of other tango fanatics, & the availability of "native guides."
>
>(Use of a fridge & kitchen & the excellent TGh prices are not
>important to me. On a vacation I'm not interest in eating my own
>cooking, & I don't mind paying for extra comfort & minor luxuries.)
>
>However, one person who stayed there complained of noise & no air
>conditioning. Sleeping & resting well is very important to me, since
>I plan to spend most of my time out exploring & attending practicas &
>milongas (or getting ready to do that). Also, I'm concerned about
>smoke getting into my room from other rooms.
>
>What has been the experience of others with the Guesthouse?
For what it's worth, I returned last week from 3 weeks in BA and while I
didn't stay at the Guesthouse, I did check it out as a possible housing
option for future trips. Bear in mind that my needs are different than the
ones you listed in your second paragraph - I *do* want use of a kitchen and
I *do* watch my expenses. I also want a place that's clean, safe, and
convenient. I believe the Guesthouse only has 4 rooms for rent, so that
would keep noise down somewhat (there wouldn't be a tremendous number of
"tango fanatics" running around the place with only four rooms available).
No matter where you stay, if you're concerned about sleep and rest, you
should bring earplugs with you. Staying out til 6 a.m. and going to sleep
at 7 a.m means that invariably there is city noise around you that you
have to block out. A friend of mine stayed at the Guesthouse last year and
said that Lena is a sweetheart, and she'd definitely stay there again.
Lena took the time to show me around the place and talk with me, and she is
indeed a sweetheart. Hope this helps.
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:21:34 +0200
From: Colin Brace <cb @LIM.NL>
Subject: Re: The Tango Guesthouse
In <389507752.968806014559.JavaMail.root @web425-wra>, on 09/12/00
at 08:46 PM, Larry Carroll <larrydla @JUNO.COM> said:
> Also, I'm concerned about smoke getting into my room from other rooms.
If you don't like cigarette smoke, you shouldn't be going to Buenos Aires.
EVERYONE smokes there, in the milongas, in restaurants, in taxis, on the
street. When you come home at night, your clothes reek of tabacco smoke.
There is NOTHING you can do about it. Not that it will matter much anyway,
the quality of air there is awful, thanks to thousands of old, smelly
buses and millions of cars.
At Lina's house, there is always the possibility of someone smoking in the
patio or in an adjacent room. The place is solidly built but, ummm, it is
not like the rooms are hermetically sealed.
> What has been the experience of others with the Guesthouse?
I stayed there for two months and liked it. If you don't mind sharing a
bath and a kitchen and are not allergic to dogs, it is a great place.
> (Use of a fridge & kitchen & the excellent TGh prices are not important
> to me. On a vacation I'm not interest in eating my own cooking, & I
> don't mind paying for extra comfort & minor luxuries.)
Sounds like you might be better off in a mid-range hotel.
--
Colin Brace <cb @lim.nl>
Amsterdam
http://www.lim.nl
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:14:36 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay @FOXINTERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: The Tango Guesthouse
> > What has been the experience of others with the Guesthouse?
>
> If you don't mind sharing a
> bath
You can get a room with a private bath.
> and a kitchen and are not allergic to dogs, it is a great place.
The dog barks quite a bit, and this has been aggravating to some
visitors.
Lina is an excellent hostess, and her help was invaluable in helping
me get the most out of Bs. As. I still advocate staying in a
guesthouse.
Lois D., Minneapolis
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:20:18 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Order on the dance floor
I was dancing with an Argentine friend to music with a simple, deliberate
beat. (His dancing is "simple" and intensely emotional and rewarding.)
When it ended he said "You know, in BsAs we call this "Tango for the
Flintstones". I was taken aback and asked "what do you mean?" Well, "the
beat is so simple that any moron can follow it, and when the milongas get
really crowded and a little hectic, we play this Biagi and it calms things
down and restores order and the line of dance!"
Perhaps this information is useful to milonga organizers........
Melinda
a) People MUST know the difference between a class, a 'practica' and a
> 'milonga', and how to behave in each case.
> b) The person running the Milonga must be IN-CHARGE and involved. If he
> sees someone 'teaching' in the middle of a dance floor, he (she) should
> intervene. If people are standing around, chit-chatting in the middle of
> the line of dance, intervene. If the moves are not appropriate for the
> crowding of the floor, intervene, or make a general reminder to please
> keep the moves simple due to the crowding of the floor. Of course the
> announcement would be unnecessary if they knew what appropriate behavior
> is in the first place. But in all milongas that I attend... nobody is in
> charge of anything except selecting the music and collecting the money.
>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:23:05 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: ColorTango CD
Many thanks to all who provided information about Color Tango, including my
mistake about their origins. I can only plead that I was carried away by
the music and the dance, and details like orchestral names did not stick in
my happy head.
Melinda
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:01:23 -0400
From: Luda and Gabriel <magaldi @SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Forever Tango
John Sullivan wrote: "Don't you folks in the U.S.A. ever get tired of
"Forever Tango"?.....
I saw the show seven times when it was in San Francisco and would do so
again if and when the opportunity presents itself. I went to see it about
every two months. I found that every time I saw the show it was different,
with different dancers, different dance numbers and different singers, and
even the same dancers doing different routines, which made every show I saw
a new experience. Sure there were some of the same old tangos, but who ever
gets tired of "La Cumparsita" and the likes? I even took some lessons from
a couple of the show's dancers.
Luda
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:38:25 -0700
From: Kathryn Rosalik <krosalik @NURSING.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: tango - los angeles vs san francisco
Hello, everyone,
I think this is most applicable for residents of Los Angeles or San
Francisco or travelers.
I am new to this tango listserv, but I was just wondering what your opinion
of the tango scene in Los Angeles versus San Francisco, or if there is a
better scene in another city altogether (besides New York). I plan to move
to a "tango city" next year, and I'd like to at least decide which city
within the next 6 months.
I wonder what the difference in milongas are in regards to # per week, # of
all-night milongas (if any), and what kind of opportunities there are
tango-wise for an amateur.
I will be visiting both LA and SF, in december/jan and again in the spring
or summer, so if there are any cool events/milongas in either place from
mid-dec to mid-jan, please let me know.
Thank you all for your attention and time,
Sincerely, Kathryn
ps I'm looking also for a tango partner. Just thought I'd put that one out
there just because....??
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:02:52 -0400
From: Luda and Gabriel <magaldi @SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Subject: Forever Tango
John Sullivan wrote: "Don't you folks in the U.S.A. ever get tired of
"Forever Tango"?.....
I saw the show seven times when it was in San Francisco and would do so
again without hesitation. I went to see it about every two months. I found
that every time I saw the show it was different, with different dancers,
different dance numbers and different singers, and even the same dancers
doing different routines, which made every show I saw a new experience.
Sure there were some of the same old tangos, but who ever gets tired of "La
Cumparsita" and the likes? I even took some lessons from a couple of the
show's dancers.
Luda
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:45:06 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay @FOXINTERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Order on the dance floor
Thank you for the suggestions, Melinda.
At our milonga this weekend, we had two kicking incidences and one
teaching across three lines of dance issue serious enough that we've
been asked to take some action.
Here's some things that have been suggested:
1. Post cards on the table with dance etiquette.
2. Publish etiquette in the newsletter (we've already done this)
3. Ask teachers to emphasize etiquette issues (most already do to some
extent)
4. Confront offenders privately.
5. Make an announcement before the dance.
I don't want to alienate people, and I hate the thought of playing
disciplinarian or being preachy, but of course we want our people to
be safe. Any other suggestions? What has worked for other
communities?
Lois Donnay, President
Tango Society of Minnesota
www.mntango.org
pres @mntango.org
> Melinda
>
> a) People MUST know the difference between a class, a
> 'practica' and a
> > 'milonga', and how to behave in each case.
> > b) The person running the Milonga must be IN-CHARGE and
> involved. If he
> > sees someone 'teaching' in the middle of a dance floor,
> he (she) should
> > intervene. If people are standing around, chit-chatting
> in the middle of
> > the line of dance, intervene. If the moves are not
> appropriate for the
> > crowding of the floor, intervene, or make a general
> reminder to please
> > keep the moves simple due to the crowding of the floor.
> Of course the
> > announcement would be unnecessary if they knew what
> appropriate behavior
> > is in the first place. But in all milongas that I
> attend... nobody is in
> > charge of anything except selecting the music and
> collecting the money.
> >
>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:24:36 -0700
From: Michael Ditkoff <tangomaniac @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Tango Pasion
Now that members have stopped attacking Forever Tango, they have now
trained their sights on Tango Pasion. As I immensely enjoyed the show
with everybody else (and the critics) at the Warner Theater in
Washington, DC, I can't let the attacks go unanswered.
It was a great show with vibrance and passion. I regret I didn't buy the
video. John Sullivan said the dancers were worse than horrible. My only
comment: I wish I could dance that horribly. I need to tell my teacher to
reverse direction in my training. He should teach me to dance horribly
not beautifully.
The list seems to follow a pattern. Attacks are made, in sequence, on
tango shows
other list members
tango teachers
other list members
tango performers
other list members
cities with bad milongas
It will be interesting to see which teacher is attacked next after we run
out tango shows to complain about.
Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:25:56 +1000
From: conrad sernia <c.sernia @MAILBOX.UQ.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: What was it like for women in the Golden Age?
>Come on, guys, flame me for that. ; )
>
ok Astrid, if it makes you feel better:
May you, and countless generations of women after you long - everyday
of your miserable sexist lives-, for the good old days [:)].
I feel honoured to have done that for you....Now *I* feel better as well!
Hmmmm.. perhaps the good ol'days *were* better! Will you promise to
dance with me?
Conrad
"Tango-down-under" http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Jardin/9362/
End of TANGO-L Digest - 13 Sep 2000 to 14 Sep 2000 (#2000-248)
**************************************************************