The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 13 Oct 2000
to 14 Oct 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:01:18 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 13 Oct 2000 to 14 Oct 2000 (#2000-278)
There are 7 messages totalling 284 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Men--expect to be asked
2. argentine myths (2)
3. Fwd: argentine myths
4. Women leading in tango (2)
5. John, the rudder
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:57:30 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi-SMC Argentina- HQ <adm @SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Men--expect to be asked
Janis Kenyon wrote about Naomi Bennett and her experience in Buenos Aires:
Naomi : Many men would look right back at me but through me and
> >then slowly move their glance, like they didn't see me. I got tired of
> >waiting an hour or more between dances.
>
Janis :> For me, tango is not exercise. I don't have to dance a certain
number of
> tandas at a milonga to feel it was worthwhile going. I went to a milonga
> yesterday from 19,00-22,00. I enjoyed the music and watched the dancers
> while I sat alone at my table. I did not dance until 20,30. There were
> only three men in the room with whom I wanted to dance. I danced three
> tandas in three hours. I hadn't been to a milonga for 11 days. I prefer
> quality over quantity.
Alberto would like to say , being 46 and a tango student in Buenos Aires:
1) Is good to stay and look the dancing floor. I understand that foreing
visitors as Naomi ,have little quantity of time to spare , so the most they
could dance the better, sleep and rest is what remains for the return flight
, not for the milonga
2) Now ,concerning Janis comment, I personnally like to wait for a music
that take me by heart. I can not dance as a sequence steps, is enough to do
that at the tango lessons. I always say to my teachers, "you can explain me
whatever you want at the lesson, but when free dancing begin ,please let me
enjoy the dance with my partner , I will improve my failing steps at the
next class "
When music attacks my heart ( usually milongas like "El portelito" or "El
entrerriano" or "Milongueando en el 40") I just jump from my chair and ask
a woman (known or unknown) to dance . I do not make head signal, or movement
of the eyebrows or "cabeceado", I just go to her table and asked "may we
dance this milonguita together , pppppllllleasse " . Until today never
failed.
I would say also this: never, never , a woman that I take to dance , return
to her table discouraged . Only thing , they need a towel, because intensive
dancing milonga makes your body to bleed water . But is a good feeling,
anyway
have good milongas !!!
alberto
> >Anyway to
> >dance with only 2-3 men in a 4 hour period was boring.
>
> It happens to all the women in the milongas. Women out-number the men.
On
> rare occasions, there are more men in a milonga. I have learned to be
more
> patient. I remember a milonga when the quality of the tanda was so
> incredible, I didn't have to dance anymore that day. It may have sounded
> like a line to him, but I truly meant it. We had danced regularly last
> year, so after five months of not dancing with Pepe, it was an absolute
> delight.
>
> >Mary went to B.A. and didn't follow the code. She asked the best dancers
> >and was bold about it. She didn't speak spanish either. She was not an
> >exceptional dancer, She was not young. She did have personality. What
I
> >got from her was not to follow the code down there, or anywhere.
>
> I regret that Mary was determined to dance at all costs. I question
whether
> she really had the best dancers for partners. I wouldn't recommend this
> method to any woman who wants to have a good experience in the milongas of
> Buenos Aires. The woman chooses with whom she wants to dance, but she
waits
> for the man to indicate the time. That is how it is done here. Period.
> Did she make a point of taking classes to improve the level of her dancing
> before charging into the milongas? Did she take the time to learn a few
> phrases of Spanish so that she could converse? So what if she has
> personality. Ladies, please don't follow Mary's lead in the milongas of
> Buenos Aires. Sounds as if she had a quota of tandas to win a bet.
>
> Pichi
>
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:30:01 -0400
From: robin thomas <ic11788 @MAIL.INFOHOUSE.COM>
Subject: argentine myths
someone recently told me that a lot of things i had heard about
milongas in buenos aires where untrue. her experience was with
milongas for the younger crowd. firstly i had heard that people dance
in the shoes that they walk in with , that argentine shoes are a
street/dance shoe hybrid and that no-one changes there shoes to
dance, my friend told me that everyone changes their shoes to dance.
she also saw a lot of men actually asking women to dance not just
doing the look thing i had heard so much about.
one more question for all of you out there. i bought a black suit to
wear in milongas (i'm male) i'm going to b.a. in christmas should i
bring it? will it be too hot, too formal, both?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:03:43 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi-SMC Argentina- HQ <adm @SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: argentine myths
robin thomas wrote about argentine myths,lets have a look
1) shoes, yes, a lot of people wear tango shoes. But let me explain to Robin
that a pair of good tango shoes costs usd 70 and upward, and you can not use
tango shoes to work. So sometimes males use their daily shoes , not for the
fun of it , but simply because they cannot afford the cost. In my case, I
have been taking lessons of tango since december 1998, and not until last
week I bought my first pair of tango shoes.
2) asking gentle to the woman instead of looking. Yes , it is more usual
now, it depends on the place, some places have a lot of young people ( La
Viruta) ,other places are big (Sunderland uses a basket court, so unless you
shot fireworks , is difficult to look to a woman at 30 meters and
"cabecear"). Better to walk and see what can be done
-*-
concerning robin question about suit , it depends on the place,some places
have air conditioning ( Confiteria del Golf, only sundays, a lovely place)
But Robin, you can wear a casual sport and will be good enough .Buenos Aires
is hot and wet in december.
Let me fervently advice you a place if you come on Xmas ; La Terraza, is
lovely,lovely,lovely, and usually they open at Xmas eve. Is an open terrace
at a Club in Vicente Lopez , with centennial palm trees, absolutely lovely
at night with the full moon !!!!
I will report later to this list when I got the address and official opening
data
keep well milongueros & milongueras !!!
alberto
Mensaje original -----
De: "robin thomas" <ic11788 @MAIL.INFOHOUSE.COM>
Para: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Enviado: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:30 PM
Asunto: argentine myths
> someone recently told me that a lot of things i had heard about
> milongas in buenos aires where untrue. her experience was with
> milongas for the younger crowd. firstly i had heard that people dance
> in the shoes that they walk in with , that argentine shoes are a
> street/dance shoe hybrid and that no-one changes there shoes to
> dance, my friend told me that everyone changes their shoes to dance.
> she also saw a lot of men actually asking women to dance not just
> doing the look thing i had heard so much about.
> one more question for all of you out there. i bought a black suit to
> wear in milongas (i'm male) i'm going to b.a. in christmas should i
> bring it? will it be too hot, too formal, both?
>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:52:24 -0500
From: Naomi Bennett <naomiben @SWBELL.NET>
Subject: Fwd: argentine myths
I see women changing their clothes and shoes in the bathroom. I see men
with and without a jacket these days in B.A. I see some people dance in
jeans. Slacks and an nice shirt, smell good, close shave and good breath
are the most important. Evening milongas might require a suit but if you
go to La Viruta, La Catheral (jeans and way laid back up a dark stairway to
a warehouse) or La Estrella, these are populated with people 20-50. Be
comfortable but wear good clothes, the women can tell the difference. I
prefer Italian styled clothes for men. Of course, it is the man that mades
the clothes and the dance, not the other way around.
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:30:01 -0400
>From: robin thomas <ic11788 @MAIL.INFOHOUSE.COM>
>
>someone recently told me that a lot of things i had heard about
>milongas in buenos aires where untrue. her experience was with
>milongas for the younger crowd. firstly i had heard that people dance
>in the shoes that they walk in with , that argentine shoes are a
>street/dance shoe hybrid and that no-one changes there shoes to
>dance, my friend told me that everyone changes their shoes to dance.
>she also saw a lot of men actually asking women to dance not just
>doing the look thing i had heard so much about.
>one more question for all of you out there. i bought a black suit to
>wear in milongas (i'm male) i'm going to b.a. in christmas should i
>bring it? will it be too hot, too formal, both?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:10:15 0100
From: John Sullivan <tangofan @020.CO.UK>
Subject: Women leading in tango
Let me start by saying that women judge rather by intuitive perceptions than by
deliberate reasoning.
Women are certainly capable of learning to lead, but they are not made for the
higher forms of science, such as philosophy and certain types of artistic
creativity; these require a universal ingredient. Women may hit on good ideas
and they may, of course, have taste and elegance, but they lack the talent for
the ideal, and thus are not suited to lead in tango.
Let's face it, folks. No lady was ever a gentleman. Who was it that said, "Man
is the will, and woman the sentiment. In this ship of humanity, will is the
rudder, and sentiment the sail; when woman affects to steer, the rudder is only
a masked sail."?
God forbid, a man makes a mistake while leading a woman in tango. Women never
forgive failure.
What does a woman really want? Adornments.
Yours truly,
John Sullivan.
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:31:56 +0900
From: astrid <astrid @RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Women leading in tango
> Women are certainly capable of learning to lead, but they are not made for
the
> higher forms of science, such as philosophy and certain types of artistic
> creativity; these require a universal ingredient. Women may hit on good
ideas
> and they may, of course, have taste and elegance, but they lack the talent
for
> the ideal, and thus are not suited to lead in tango.
>
Sorry, John, but I have not heard such drivel in a long time, thank god.
Tango maybe a bit macho, but even the machos have grown out of believing
these 19th century myths by now.
This does not mean, I want to lead, it just means, there women scientists,
women leaders, women philisophers.... And as far as creativity goes, most
people, women, too, know a lot better than parroting outdated cliches like
the above.
Sure women like adornos, but this is not because their IQ qualifies them for
nothing more advanced than that, it is because tango was invented by the
Argentines during another age, and this is the only place where they can do
something on their own.
Astrid
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:50:54 -0400
From: Eugenia Spitkovsky <euginas @EROLS.COM>
Subject: John, the rudder
"What does a woman really want?", asks John, the rudder.
On a tango floor or anywhere else: a gentleman, of course! A sprinkle of
intelligence won't hurt either...
Eugenia
End of TANGO-L Digest - 13 Oct 2000 to 14 Oct 2000 (#2000-278)
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