The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 2 Oct 2000
to 3 Oct 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 03:00:30 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 2 Oct 2000 to 3 Oct 2000 (#2000-267)
There are 6 messages totalling 324 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. learning to lead (3)
2. learning to lead- pivot
3. Bastoneros & milongas
4. Tara Tango Shoes for Women
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Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:21:00 -0600
From: Robert Dodier <RobertD @ATHENESOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Hello Helene and everyone,
I have to say that the idea of leading was very foreign
to me when I first took up a couples dance (salsa).
"What -- I'm supposed to have a clue about what we're
doing?!" I've gotten better since then, but I still
have a lot to learn.
I don't know what's best for everyone, but here are
a few things that I've found helpful.
One is that a leader should practice following. This
helps him or her understand what a good lead should
feel like -- then they can try to instill that same
feeling in their partners.
Another thing is that leaders should forget about
figures for a while. If the follower can second-
guess the leader, there's no point to leading and
following anymore. A leader should lead every single
step, instead of just the first step of a sequence.
I think it also helps to practice close embrace style.
There is the same problem of communication as in
open embrace, but physical contact makes that commun-
ication more immediate. It's easier to see what is
not working, so you can improve it. It's also easier
to see what is really working well. :)
The key insight that I've had (drum roll please :)
is that from a given position, there aren't too many
directions that a person can dance from. For instance,
if your weight is on your left foot, it means you can
step forward or backward or to the right, and so on.
When I lead, I try to think about a direction
I want to move, and then I try to adjust the feet,
hips, and torsos (mine and hers) to get there.
The leader has to pay close attention about where is the
follower's weight in order to make that work.
Well, as always my advice is worth what you paid
for it. :) Hope this helps.
Regards,
Robert Dodier
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:59:06 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi-SMC Argentina- HQ <adm @SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: learning to lead
"Helene said:
> I'd be glad to know what people think is the best way
> to learn to lead - and what the best way is to help
> someone else learn to lead. "
Helene, I am a tango pupil in Buenos Aires. So take this comments not a=
s the
ultimate truth, or a shining revelation .
Tango is subtle.
Tango is shy.
Tango is an elf , a goblin , he mocks you. And when you are going to th=
row
the towel, it gives you a drop of water, just a drop, and disappear, le=
aving
thirstier than before.
Now , concerning the man with leading problems. There are many good com=
ments
from people of this tango list, I will pick up some:
1 ) To walk : this is the basic. You have to walk .Walk . Walk means, =
to
gently take your female companion, to feel her body, and to make a
counterclockwise figure , all around the dancing room. To properly lead=
the
lady, you need a purpose. Your purpose, in this first stage, is to walk=
all
around the dancing ball room, without interrupting or hitting other cou=
ples.
2 ) Is your upper part what matters, not your legs : yesterday i was
practicing with my lady , she is 17 , I am 46 .She is 80 pounds, I am 1=
60
pounds. Something was going wrong with the eights. Whenever i turn , sh=
e
could not make the eights properly , she loss her balance and quicken t=
he
steps.
So I look what was going on. I was doing the body movement bad.
I move my legs, and pretend her to follow me.
It does not work that way.
If you man, want the woman to make an eight, first you have to show you=
r
intention with your chest and shoulder and "marca" . Once the lady begu=
n the
eight , you follow her , and meet her body with your body .Also you hav=
e to
keep aligned , not to open your shoulder , otherwise bodies begun to
separate.
3) Be gentle , hear the woman=B4s body, her breathing, the beating of h=
er
heart. Loss yourself into the dancing, this can not be talked with your
dancing couple. When you are dancing, the lesson has ended . Is the lad=
y and
you. Do the steps you feel good. Stop. Allow the lady to understand you=
r
movement .She is not a puppet, she will not move with your towing or
pushing, she needs to receive a clear message from your male body. The =
basic
message has to be : confidence.Otherwise it will be very difficult to d=
ance.
Be patient with yourself. If got entangled, stop. Once again, start fro=
m a
standing position, both aligned . Lady will appreciate your effort ,she=
will
see you are struggling to produce a reliable support.
Have a very nice tango dancing !! Enjoy it !!! This is what it matters =
!! No
teacher can teach you to enjoy, this is your contribution for your danc=
ing
lady.
Alberto
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:13:34 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi-SMC Argentina- HQ <adm @SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: learning to lead- pivot
Helene said:
> I have tried a couple of times to lead and I know that
> it is hard - but I don't know what to say to give him
> a clue. What advice can you give him? He knows he
> has to understand the figures, and he knows he has to
> practice leading, but what else? Was there any
> defining moment in your experience that represented a
> breakthrough in your leading?
Alberto says:
Once again, please take this comments as tango pupil in Buenos Aires, I am
not a teacher.
However being a Buenos Aires native is an advantage.,Tango has been part of
your life, even though you were not a tango fan.
I think my first breakthrough came when we with our lady our first jointly
pivot when walking . It was as if up to that moment, we have been walking
over a thin wire.
When the pivot happened naturally, we found a 360 degree world. We could
keep walking, but we could stop, and take another direction.
Also, I feel for the first time , the ax of the lady. I tried to put her
body over her right leg , and it worked. To her left leg, and it worked .
Keep well
Alberto
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:00:58 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi-SMC Argentina- HQ <adm @SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Bastoneros & milongas
Asunto: Bastoneros & milongas
Paul & Karen wrote :
> Is a "tango party" like a "dance party"?
I have been attending milongas since 1999 , with an average of two milo=
ngas
a week. Is part of the work of our school, to go the milongas and dance
=2EFirst with your ladies pupils of the school.
Later with your dare face, with random ladies , whom you do not know ev=
en
her name, and whom you may be never see again.
I can not say if the tango pary is like a dance party.Milongas in Bueno=
s
Aires are:
1) anywhere, anytime. From Monday ( the =B4weak=B4day, it is more or le=
ss the
resting day of milongueros & milongueras) to Sunday .
2) cheap. Tickets are from U$S 3 to U$S 5 , average.Maybe one or two pl=
aces
a bit more, but they include a drink and some food, so it is still chea=
p
under Buenos Aires standards .
3) mixed up origin . Brazilians ( a lot !! how they like it !! how goo=
d
some of them dance!!) europeans , (same comments as brazilian) , japane=
se
(same comments), and natives .
4) mixed up ages , ladies and gentlemen. Young, senior
5) no "bastonero" ,sorry, it is the struggle for survival. But you hav=
e
milongas where you can follow the stream easily, other ones, if you lik=
e to
make some figures, have to wait until the small hours, to have the danc=
ing
floor "cleared".
6) different dancing floors, from wooden floors, to concrete , polished
stone
7) music , In the old days, there were orchestras playing live for the
dancers. Nowadays , it is no more usual, recorded music is played. Howe=
ver
from time to time, orchestras perform at some milongas.
8) time schedule, usually at the milonga dancings there are also tango
lessons, so while the lesson is going on, if you are not taking it, you=
will
have to wait. Milongas begun average at night untill the small hours ( =
3am
to 5 am),although there are places where you can go evening .
I think the average milonga (or tango party) therefore, is a place wher=
e you
not take nothing for granted. You will have to make your own choice aft=
er
your private "tour" of places.
Enjoy your tango dance !!!
Alberto
Buenos Aires
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:04:41 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck @ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Alberto writes:
> 2 ) Is your upper part what matters, not your legs : yesterday i was
> practicing with my lady , she is 17 , I am 46.
Er, uh, waiter, I'll have whatever he's drinking!
Huck
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:22:35 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Tara Tango Shoes for Women
Astrid wrote:
If you want a peekaboo shoe that is made especially for tango,
well made, great for dancing and cheaper than Prada, go for "Malena" by
Robin Tara. Best I ever had. (And I have been through trace on paper number
several times) www.22tangoshoes.com
Robin Tara arrived a few days ago in Buenos Aires and brought me my first
pair of her shoes. It was difficult to decide which pair to buy from among
her large selection of styles, colors and heels. But I finally decided on
the "Malena" in red. I agree with Astrid--they are the best shoes I've ever
worn for tango.
I have worn Flabella and Fattomano shoes (street shoes made in BsAs). The
Flabella shoes
wear out in six months. The Fattomano shoes are sturdier, but I had to
insert a metatarsal pad to give them more cushion. This is not necessary
with Tara tango shoes. They have wonderful padding built in.
I wore my shoes for the first time last night to a milonga and danced until
4:30 in the morning on a marble floor. I have to make an adjustment to a
slightly higher heel
than I am normally used to wearing. I especially like the feel of the
sturdy heel and the softness of the leather around my foot. With the small
open
toe, the shoe is about an inch shorter than my closed-toe shoes.
A year ago I tried on Robin's own shoes when she was in BsAs, and I couldn't
believe how comfortable they were. Women have asked my advice about buying
tango shoes in BsAs when they already have a pair of Tara shoes. I tell
them not to waste their money ($65) on street shoes in BsAs. When you have
a
pair of tango shoes designed by a tango dancer, you have the best money can
buy on your feet. Robin has spent considerable time working with a factory
on the designs. Her customers are completely satisfied. So am I. I'm
going to buy my next pair while she's here in Buenos Aires until early
November.
If you are coming for a visit to BsAs between now and November 1, you will
find Robin in the milongas--she's the one in the great looking shoes. She's
planning a shoe showing at her apartment where you can see some of the new
designs.
Pichi
Do-It-Yourself Tango Tour to Buenos Aires
End of TANGO-L Digest - 2 Oct 2000 to 3 Oct 2000 (#2000-267)
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