The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 19 May 2000
to 20 May 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 19 May 2000 to 20 May 2000 (#2000-137)
There are 6 messages totalling 339 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Why go? (2)
2. Why go (2)
3. Anibal Troilo - 25 years since his death
4. Tango Styles - Tango Fantasia Vs. Tango Nuevo
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:54:57 +0800
From: Kace Ong <kace @PACIFIC.NET.SG>
Subject: Re: Why go?
There is a deeper aspect to the discussion of the
negative aspect of dancing in BA and the milonga
"code": Does learning tango mandate the wholesale
adoption of its culture, rituals and history?
My personal feeling is that it is not necessary.
Consider Chinese cooking: lots of people do it
around the world, all with interesting variations
and nuances. There is no single Mecca anymore,
since good Chinese chefs can be found everywhere
in the world.
If you agree that the Chinese cooking fanatic
does not need to dress in a cheongsam and speak
mandarin, then it is obvious that some unsavoury
aspects of Argentine culture can be safely
dissociated from the learning of tango itself.
While we're on the subject of the milonga
experience, can anyone suggest a city where the
milonga, the level of dancing, the attitude of
the people, are all good? Maybe we can promote
that to be the tango Mecca instead.
Kace
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 06:40:03 EDT
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Why go
Saying, "Why go to BsAs for tango" is also like saying
"Why go to Rome to see the Pope." I know several people who are very
religious to the tango, so why do so many people go to Rome to see the pope
or the Vatican when they have so many Catholic churches right in their own
town. Do people feel closer to God when they are in the Vatican, versus their
own church. I was always taught that God is in every one of us, God is
everywhere. Praying to God where ever we are, is no different if we are in
our own church or at the Vatican.
Basically, people go to BsAs to see, feel, taste, to get closer to the soul
of the Tango in it's purest form. We have tango in Cleveland, but is it
anything like tango in BsAs. NO WAY.
Not just in Cleveland, but many American cities, people dance to a syobus of
dance steps, and they think they are dancing the tango. Tango to me is a
feeling, a way of expressing your self, in some respect, praying. Tango is
not a bunch of dance steps put together. It is so difficult to teach anyone a
feeling, how to react to the sound of the music. how do you teach anyone to
dance from what is in side your heart, versus put one foot here and the other
foot there. I guess you can say that praying a "Hail Mary, or an Our Father"
is a dance step in gods world. Your praying using someone else's words to try
and get closer to God, where if you only prayed to him in your own words
could or might mean so much more.
On another note, In all my travels, Buenos Aires is the most beautiful and
fascinating cities I've ever visited. BsAs is considered the by some to be
the Paris of south America.
Please, do not hold anything against me for using the church, God, and tango
in any negative way. I have much love for both, but it's the only way I felt
I could get my personal point across.
I am
Tim Pogros (TimmyTango)
Please visit Cleveland's Web Site: www.tangocleveland.com
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:35:15 EDT
From: Dario Mendiguren <C21DARI @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why go
Dear Tango friends:
As it's said here, you don't need to go to Buenos Aires if you like to dance
Tango!
Probably as it happens when you arrive to any big you will feel disoriented
(some might felt even worse, not as welcome as they were expecting, sorry!),
probably that had happened to all those immigrants that arrived at the end of
the 19th Century to Buenos Aires Harbor and in some way the had contributed
in a 80% or more of the creation of what you are enjoying today in your home
towns Tango Milonga and TangoVals.
I agree with several of you fellows, that some things are not going to be to
your like there, it's another idiosyncrasy that it's not easy to understand
in a "2 weeks Tango trip" (I would blame the tours promoters and organizers
not to advice about this matter so you get prepared on what to expect and how
to handle it) thank God and thank to the posts in this list, before going
(if you chose to go to Buenos Aires) you know some of the codes at the
Milongas there, how to get to dance, or where to go to take lessons!
If you ask me (I'm a porte~o, who had lived in New York for the last 19
years and started loving and dancing Tango here in USA) I would take the
chance to go and visit the city and the people that in some way contributed
to generate what it is today your "Passion" and learn more about it's roots
Why to deprive yourself to enjoy the city were the Tango was born, walk
through it's famous streets like Caminito (where probably Tango were danced
for first time) or through Avenida Corrientes having the obelisk as a
background, or visiting those bars that are more than 100 years old and were
more than one famous musician singer or Tango composer was sitting their
chairs zipping a coffee and creating the music those Tangos that you enjoy
dancing today!
You don't need to go to Buenos Aires to enjoy excellent Tango, but not
going, I think you might miss something that it is very attached to it, It
is the City and the people (you may or may not like them) who created it!
and they are there!!
Have happy Tangos (and if you go there, tell Buenos Aires that I love it!)
Dario
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:01:41 -0400
From: Richard Lipkin <ezie @EROLS.COM>
Subject: Anibal Troilo - 25 years since his death
I received the following from a relative in Buenos Aires who is not
subscribed to Tango-L.
In addition to the text about Troilo, there is a poem in Spanish by
Julian Centeya.
""""
It was exactly today 25 years when Argentina's most important
artist of all times died in a disastrous year for this country. Anibal
Troilo's death not only meant the loss of a talented and beloved
musician
who made lots of records, films and television (this last item, in
particular, unaccesible today due to intentional negligence); with
Pichuco
the tango as a musical genre also virtually died. The genre would no
longer be as popular or accesible as it was. And there was nobady to
take
Troilo's place as the great performer and composer he was... not even
Astor
Piazzolla.
I was a four-year-old kid when all this happened and somehow I
still have a vague memories of what happened in Argentina in those
terrible years which were confirmed when I grown up. Pichuco devoted 50
of
the 64 years of his life working with his bandoneon begining in a silent
movie theater (the Medrano Palace, not far from where I'm writing) and
his
talents can still be enjoyed after so many years.
The following poem was written by Julian Centeya who recorded
for
RCA Victor (with the Troilo-Grela quartet performing "Pa' que bailen los
muchachos" added in the background). Coincidentally, Centeya died around
the
same time.
JORGE FINKIELMAN
_______________________________________________________________________________
ANIBAL TROILO
BANDONEON MAYOR DE BUENOS AIRES
Esta bloqueando lunas acusadas tu fueye
En el monologo de la cosa -abierto!
y me instalas emn el hondo misterio
con el ultimo cigarrillo y un nombre de perfil
que llueve
-todavia!
la inutil ternura sobre la rosa-ladrillo del tiempo.
El suncho de tu tango gris
se clava en la carne de la noche y estrola
en el contrajuego, la baraja de la lagrima sola
busca un bolsillo que sea como un pais.
Vengo a escucharte, pero antes
archive las espaldas. Quiero estar de frente
como un domingo claro,
subdividido a patios,
tejeando a medianeras
sembrao a calles
potentes
de nuestro Buenos Aires - Tango.
Muerde una verdad tu fueye,
como la de no tener zapatos,
como el haber vencido inutilmente
a la calle cortada de una frente
que un dia se nos subio a las manos
-un dia en que las cosas suceden de repente-
Tu fueye aprisiona
y reintegra paisajes de barro
y devuelve cosas
-Siempre me devolves cosas!
Las que no te di y son tuyas
las que no te sirven y valen por eso,
la palabra amistosa
la penumbra del cine Medrano,
el recuerdo de un patio
en la calle Cabrera,
el humo de afiche de nuestro cigarro
y el ir a menos, sobrados, parejos
en este vivir que la madre ha prestado.
Te escucho y es mio el pan caliente,
la astilla clavada que duele
el rencor oblicuo
aquel enero viudo
el vidrio del ojo de la vaca
el drama potente del se$alero
la multitud-nadie,
el ultimo regreso,
el cero de mi cuaderno
la culpa del otro,
la vidriera de enfrente
el hambre de Cesar Vallejo
el amor confesado a Homero
el farol balanceando en la barrera
tajeando la calle en Pompeya
su barrio orillero.
En tu fueye esta el ladrido esdrujulo de mi perro Chango
cuya comprobada ternura me lengueto la sed de su cari$o
y Malambo
que se murio en mis brazos.
Yo les hablaba a mis perros, de vos, Gordo
y un fabuloso entendimiento
nos juntaba
-y yo creci hasta perro!
-Tu fueye!
Nada se parece tanto a vos como tu fueye
-Tu fueye!
Algo mas: tu palabra
tu alma
tu sangre, tus ganas de nada
tus ansias
y la noche larga
y la copa volteada
Pichuco
En tu jaula canta, llorando, el pajaro de la tarde,
ciego
y yo, desde el hueso
digo
que sos EL BANDONEON MAYOR DE BUENOS AIRES
JULIAN CENTEYA
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:41:08 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Tango Styles - Tango Fantasia Vs. Tango Nuevo
MICHEL LIGER made interesting comments with respect to Tango Fantasia and
Nuevo Tango.
It is well known that tango has many artistic and esthetic expressions.
Tango Salon, Tango Milonguero, Tango Nuevo, Tango Canyengue have the
important characteristic of the IMPROVISATION.
Each step or pattern is improvised according to the music and the spiritual
effect that music evokes at that particular moment. Here the art of
communicating those feelings and decisions to your partner are of the utmost
importance. So that she may accept your proposals, synchronize spiritually
and follow smoothly.
Tango Fantasia on the other hand is choreographed for exhibition. It
requires practice at learning and following certain patterns that correlate
with a certain particular piece of music and are done in a pre-established
sequence, which is memorized.
At the milongas you dance mostly for yourself on stage you do it mostly for
the public.
Tango Nuevo is a form of Tango Salon that incorporates certain moves that
are dramatic and spectacular per se but it is not choreographed and it is
danced mostly for yourself. It end up being some sort of a show because it
is done at the beginning or at the end of the milonga when there is enough
open area to complete the sequences of steps but so is classical tango salon
when there is enough room to perform certain figures.
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 18:35:52 MST
From: Judy Margolis <tangomas @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why go?
Come on Kace
Tell me your kidding. We are not talking about dancing tango . . . we're
talking about dancing "argentine tango". You want to change it? Do so, but
don't call it argentine. As for the chinese cooking analogy . . . I really
don't believe that what you wear or what language you speak effects the
manner in which you prepare food or the final result. Do you? The degree
to which you fall in love with the dance will reflect the depth to which you
accept the value of the cultural aspect of the dance. Dancing argentine
tango does not mean that you have to adopt the cultural aspects that are
intertwined with the history of the dance. What you do have to do is
understand that argentine tango is just that, argentine. It has a history,
a present, and a future. It will change, but the changes need to motivate
from Argentina or the dance becomes a rendition. There is so much variation
in the way argentine tango is danced, I can't imagine loving the dance and
not being able to find a style that works for you. It's the attitude,
"there are no rules, I don't see why I can't do whatever I want to." that
bothers me. The fact is you can do whatever you want to, it just may not be
argentine tango by the time you are finished with it. As for argentine
milongas? Maybe they aren't for everybody. Like my mother always said,
"Never force a good thing on anybody!"
Just my opinion
Jon y Judy
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 19 May 2000 to 20 May 2000 (#2000-137)
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