The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 8 May 2000
to 9 May 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 03:00:41 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 8 May 2000 to 9 May 2000 (#2000-126)
There are 10 messages totalling 407 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. buying dancers and the spirit of the milonga
2. Tango Violinists
3. gomina
4. How To Accompany Argentine Tango On Guitar - Workshop!
5. Simpsons/Siberiade
6. Calling Argentina - cheaply
7. Milonga codes (re)considered
8. Rejections
9. Eva's rejection.
10. The right attitude
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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:30:29 -0400
From: Nitin Kibe <nkibe @WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject: Re: buying dancers and the spirit of the milonga
Very interesting comments and observations and despite the differences in
opinion, quite civil too (at least so far!). Thanks to all.
A comment: while "lookism" rears its head again, more for women than for
men, isn't it one of the paradoxes of tango that, particularly in
milonguero style, one does not or cannot even see one's partner during the
dance? True, some (narcissists?) check their reflections in the mirrors,
but even this momentary shift of attention from the dance and one's partner
can be easily sensed by the other.
Good wishes.
Nitin Kibe
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:12:02 -0700
From: Mark Celaya <mark-joan-tango @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango Violinists
To Robert & all who are interested in "Violin Tango",
Another great tango CD with violins (& only violins) is called:
~LOS VIOLINES DE ORO DEL TANGO (Francini y Stamponi) - "Concierto en
la Luna".
This CD contains 14 beautiful versions of well known tangos (11),
milongas (2), & vals (1): Concierto en la Luna, LaTablada, El
Entrerriano, Taquito Militar, Chique, Inspiracion, El Huracan, Derecho
Viejo, Vida Mia, El Choclo, Corazon de Oro, Orgullo Criollo, El
Esquinazo, Alma de Bohemio.
POLYDOR 533993-2 ~ 1997
Regards,
Mark Celaya
http://home.att.net/~mark-joan-tango
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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 13:01:30 -0500
From: "kata @pitton.com" <kata @PITTON.COM>
Subject: gomina
A while back people were talking about gomina and how to get the right look
for their hair. I'm not sure how important that is, but anyway, I saw a
advertorial in Latina magazine of a new type of gomina from the Matrix "Via
Dezign" line. Now I can't find the magazine and I don't remember the name.
It's one of the products listed under "styling" at
http://www.matrixbeautiful.com/behind/products/viadezign/index.html .
Latina said it's not sticky. Matrix products, which in general are pretty
good and mid-priced, are sold in most beauty shops and some beauty supply
outlets.
Hope this info helps somebody.
saludos,
Kate
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 12:19:56 -0600
From: Daniel Diaz <dan @INTELLINKS.COM>
Subject: How To Accompany Argentine Tango On Guitar - Workshop!
The Rio Plata Institute is presenting an Argentine tango guitar worshop:
"How To Accompany Argentine Tango On Guitar"
May 17 and 18, in Denver, CO
May 24 and 25, in Palo Alto, CA (Stanford)
The series of seminars will cover tango, valses and milongas. Critical
strumming techniques, bass lines, regular and symcopated styles, etc.
The workshop will be taught by extraordinaire Argentine guitarrist
Victor Sanchez. A natural and intuitive musician, he played guitar since
his childhood and has accompanied famous musicians from all over the
world. For more information check our web site:
http://www.intellinks.com/rioplata/calendar.htm
or
http://www.intellinks.com/rioplata/workshop.htm
This is an unique opportunity for attendees to not only learn how to
play Argentine tango but, once to master the techniques necessary to
become a guitar accompanist for performances with musicians who wish to
present Argentine tango music. Typical groups are bandoneon, guitar and
double bass; piano, guitar and double bass; violin and guitar, etc..
Flute, clarinet and oboe have been used as lead instruments also.
Please let us now of your interest and/or pass this information to your
guitarist friend.
Thank you
Daniel Diaz - Phone (801)420-3179
The Rio Plata Institute
mailto:dan @intellinks.com
Web Site: http://www.intellinks.com/rioplata
P.S.: For workshops on other instruments, please check our web pages
above and or send an e-mail. We are preparing a Basic Argentine Tango
Musicality workshop for all musicians and instruments as an introduction
to future advanced seminars and workshop for specific instruments.
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:24:58 EDT
From: Shirley Kwan <SKisaichi @AOL.COM>
Subject: Simpsons/Siberiade
Hi --
Did anyone catch THE SIMPSONS episode on U.S. TV last night in which Lisa watches her doppelganger (a librarian) in a movie dancing a divine "Tango de la Muerte" and resolves to take dance lessons...only to be pushed into...tap, not tango. Perhaps tango IS taking its place in popular culture. If I'd seen that episode when I was younger, I would have taken up tango earlier and my life would have been much improved, I'm sure...re-runs, anyone?
Also, was watching Konchalevsky's immortal movie "Siberiade"--the film equivalent of the Great Russian Novel. One section/substory is about a young boy who returns to his boyhood town, the young girl he encounters and who waits for him for six years after he goes off to war. Many years later, they meet again. A tango is woven throughout the entire episode and evokes everything that tango can evoke: love, loss, youth and middle age, nostalgia, family, tribe, era, end of love, affirmation of all that and starting anew from nothing, here and far away. Mythical, mystical, beyond time and yet confined within the meters of a single song. Breathtaking. Watching it is to understand what it might be like to dance with many people simultaneously, intimately.
Yours,
Shirley Kwan
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 16:49:08 -0600
From: Dave Schmitz <dschmitz @MAGELLAN.TEQ.STORTEK.COM>
Subject: Calling Argentina - cheaply
Dear list-people,
I had foreign guests (from Europe)
in my house back in March. One of them used my phone
to call home. At $2.30 per minute, it was quite
an expensive call, even for just four minutes.
Since then, I've found a much cheaper way to call,
both to my guests' country and to Argentina. The
above call would have been 30 cents per minute
instead of 230 cents per minute!
NOTE:
I have no connection with Sam's Club nor with AT&T.
Sam's Club now sells AT&T Prepaid Phone Cards for
5.9 cents per domestic (USA to USA) minute. The
rate
from USA to Argentina is 5:1 ratio, so 30 cents per minute,
from Argentina to USA is 9:1 ratio, so 54 cents per minute.
These ratios are subject to change.
Cards are available for 350 or 1000 domestic minutes
(70 or 200 minutes to Argentina), and may be re-charged
with a credit card for the same per-minute price.
The Card may also be used from other countries to
call Argentina, but I have no information on rates.
For those rates, you might call the AT&T Customer Service
number, 1-888-854-6740 (USA).
AT&T also sells these cards from their web site,
but the price is a lot higher than from Sam's Club.
If anyone can beat these rates, please let us all know.
Dave Schmitz
Denver, Colorado
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:08:36 -0400
From: Robinne Gray <rlg2 @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Milonga codes (re)considered
I've been following the discussion about "rebellion of the B.A. milonga
codes" with interest for two reasons: first to gather practical
information on what I might expect on that someday trip to Buenos Aires,
and second because I'm interested in what the codes (and related brewing
rebellion) suggest about gender, power, and culture. For a few years now
I've been speaking with tangueras about their experiences at the Argentine
milongas, and reading threads discussing the same, and it's interesting (to
me, anyway) to note the different facets of the milonga experience that are
highlighted and to try and create a composite image from them.
When I first began to learn tango, I recall hearing a lot of the
positive stories--women and men going off to BsAs and having the most
incredible-ecstatic-orgasmic dance experiences of their lives. Women who
pull up all roots in order to move to BsAs, some even changing their names.
Women who hook up with handsome young Argentines who rock their world.
Women describing their enjoyment of gendered social codes that harken back
to another era where women were "treated like ladies," "taken care of" etc.
This latter view was restated in a Tango-L thread of a few months ago--I
particularly remember Srmana writing that kissing, seducing, undressing and
other things are "not as elegant if you reverse the roles." (And this from
a Smith graduate! ;-) That is a point worth some vigorous debate, but not
here...
When I began to hear more direct first-person accounts from women I got
intimations of ambivalence, if not outright discontent, about their
experiences in the milongas. One woman stayed a month and "clawed [her]
way up through the practica system;" a few days ago someone described her
experience as "very mixed--sometimes I only danced once in a night,
sometimes I danced 'til 4am, but I had no control over any of it, and no
one told me about how often you encounter the expectation of sexual
favors." Women who arrived, with great anticipation and at not
insubstantial expense, to sit all night or to be dogged by creeps. Here is
the less-than-enticing picture that has emerged from various accounts:
If you go alone (or with a group of women friends) no one will ask you to
dance except cheesy guys on the make, whom one is supposed to turn down.
BUT
If you go with a partner, no one will ask you to dance because you're with
a man.
AND
If you go with a tour so you have some familiarity and support the locals
look upon you as a crass tourist and avoid you as if you had leprosy
AND
Even if you demonstrate your good taste by fending off the undesirables,
the good milongueros still won't ask you because they don't know if you're
good enough and won't take a chance on you
UNLESS OF COURSE
you're wearing a see-through top or micro-mini.
Even for the reasonably young, attractive, and talented, I'm hearing a
Catch-22. It's reminiscent of the old adage about employment: no one will
hire you without experience, but how will you ever get experience if no one
will hire you? The good tangueros won't ask you unless you're proven
yourself--but how can you strut your stuff if the only partners who will
ask you are the bad/mediocre ones?
And today I'm reading that the independent woman's best option to
ensure her enjoyment of the milongas is to hire a dance gigolo???!! This
much I know for certain: It'll be a cold day in hell before I pay a man to
dance with me.
I've appreciated Janis' posts providing information that is intended to
be helpful; problem is, the overall picture that emerges can fill one with
trepidation. I was grateful to Naomi for suggesting that codes aren't
handed down in stone like the Ten Commandments but can be "bent to fit the
occasion." And I liked Norma's sensible suggestions re: introducing
oneself to the host and staying at locations where one will meet fellow
visitors. This, to me, sounds more like most human reality than the purist
dictum that all is black-and-white and non-negotiable.
Would enjoy hearing more from others.
--Robinne
Ithaca, NY
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:34:50 -0700
From: Linda Valentino <LindaValentino @PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Rejections
Regarding the latest discussion of rejections, Eva hit a nerve with me when
she mentioned that she had asked a teacher to dance and been rejected. I
don't know if the man she asked was her teacher, another local teacher or a
visiting teacher, but this is a subject that needs some education. I
frequently host visiting teachers from Argentina. Inevitably, when I take my
guests to the local milongas, the men are set upon by numerous women who ask
them to dance. These are almost always women who won't spend any money to
attend the classes these teachers are giving, but they think they are
entitled to "demand" a dance. This always strikes me as colossal nerve! This
just happened here last weekend. One woman in particular, who did not attend
any of Julio Balmaceda and Corina De La Rosa's classes, followed Julio
around at one milonga and repeatedly asked him to dance. He politely and
repeatedly declined. The next night the same woman repeated this behavior at
another milonga. Julio again declined. I wish I could say that this behavior
was unusual, but it isn't. There are numerous women here who don't seem to
realize that they are being incredibly rude. They apparently think that it's
some kind of a thrill for these professionals to dance with them, and most
of them (of course) are not good dancers. The feedback that I get from the
many visiting professionals I have hosted over the past eight years is that
they are very offended by this behavior. First, they still abide by the
Buenos Aires codigos that dictate that the men do the asking, and they don't
like women asking them. Second, they feel no obligation whatsoever to dance
with people who don't support their presence in the community by coming to
their classes. When they are teaching in a community and go to the local
milongas, they either want to dance with students who are supporting them
(good business), or for their own enjoyment by dancing with friends or with
their own partners. Personally, I never even ask the teachers I am hosting,
many of whom have become close friends of mine over the years. I figure that
if they want to dance with me they will do the asking. And I never, ever ask
a teacher--either local or visiting--from whom I have never taken classes.
Hello!!!!! That's just rude. It's like saying to them, "You're good enough
for me to want to dance with you, but you're not good enough for me to spend
any money on your classes." Why is it that so often when people go out to
dance tango, they seem to check their common sense at the door?
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:06:06 -0400
From: Steve Doster <sdoster @SHAWNEE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eva's rejection.
Deborah, you responded to Eva, who wrote an email to this list
regarding rejection in
dancing. 5/1/00, reducing the "rejection rate."
After a hiatus of 30 years I'm beginning to relearn the Tango and thought my
major obstacles would be learning the steps, keeping time to the music and
finding a dance partner (not easy in a small Kentucky town on the banks of
the Ohio River). Thanks for reminding me of the related social skills
necessary for making the evening pleasant for those ladies I ask to dance,
as well as those ladies who choose to ask me.
Steve
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 21:28:30 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: The right attitude
Ladies on the List,
I am neither young nor beautiful, but I dance with the men who are the best
dancers in the milongas of Buenos Aires. These men are over 60, bald or
totally gray with extra weight around the middle. I don't see them dancing
with girls in their 20s; that is because young girls do not go to the
milongas I attend.
If you are in your 20s and want to find a younger crowd at the milongas in
BsAs, go to La Estrella on Friday, or Almagro or La Catedral on Tuesday, or
La Viruta on Saturday. You'll find the young guys there learning or dancing
salon style.
If you are over 50 (as I am), you probably want to dance with a man who will
hold you in his arms and dance with feeling because he knows the music, the
singers, the orchestras, and the lyrics. This takes a lifetime; young guys
don't and can't know what a milonguero knows. Therefore, dancing with them
can't be the same as dancing with a milonguero who has lived tango
practically all his life.
A friend from another country arrived in Buenos Aires recently for her
second visit. She joined my boyfriend and me on Saturday night at our
favorite milonga. She came with the right attitude. She sat with a smile
on her face, ready to make eye contact for a tanda. She had a fabulous
night of dancing with excellent partners. She didn't dance with just
anyone, but was selective in making eye contact. It didn't hurt that she
was seated at our table, but she had to still do her part while we were
dancing.
A friend wrote me that during her recent visit to Buenos Aires, she noticed
that there were almost no women in the milongas with gray hair. She's quite
right, so I recommended she consider coloring the gray before her next
visit. There are men in the milongas of Buenos Aires who color their hair.
I'm not ashamed to admit that my auburn hair came from a bottle.
When I am asked by people here why I am living in Buenos Aires, I respond
that I came because of the wonderful people I have met during my visits. I
find everyone in Buenos Aires to be warm and friendly.
There is a well-known tango tour organizer who hires Argentine assistants to
dance with the ladies on his tours during the classes and milongas in BsAs.
They are probably glad to have the work and the ladies are happy to be
dancing.
You can pay for private lessons in salon style with well-known teachers in
Buenos Aires and never get to dance with them in a milonga because they
don't go to them;
or
You can learn how tango is danced in the milongas by having an arrangement
with a milonguero.
Either way you are paying for a service. Why not learn to dance in a
real-life situation rather than in an empty room?
End of TANGO-L Digest - 8 May 2000 to 9 May 2000 (#2000-126)
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