The Tango-L mailing list archive

Digest from 22 Mar 2000 to 23 Mar 2000

Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango          <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date:     Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:00:30 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango          <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject:  TANGO-L Digest - 22 Mar 2000 to 23 Mar 2000 (#2000-80)
There are 2 messages totalling 102 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Italians, anything to do with tango? (2)





Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:29:56 -0500
From:    Sergio Suppa <sersupa  @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Italians, anything to do with tango?

Enrico Massetti wrote:
"I grew up in Milan, Italy listening to jazz music, but when I found myself
living in
the USA I found in tango the music and the dancing "of home".  Is this
because
of the strong influence of Italian immigrants, and their sons in the
formation and
development of tango in the Rio de la Plata?  Did it all start at the time
tango
was adopted by the poor Italian immigrants living together in the
"Conventillos"?"

Caro Enrico:
                      Tango like most of the ballroom dances originated from
an interaction between  Native, African and European influences.
Native influences such as Milonga, which is an African word that means
"palabrerio"(many words). This African word was applied to the *Payadas* .
Payadas were an entertainment for the gauchos, it was present in the
evenings after dinner or in any celebration in rural areas.
Two gauchos challeged each other to a payada; they would sing with the
accompaniament of their guitars, improvising poems that usually made
reference to philosophical subjects, such as the meaning of life, death,
God, the soul, humankind, the universe, love, etc.
They would take turns to sing in verse, improvising; one always answering a
question given by the other. The blacks used the word Milonga to refer to
all this kind of talking to the guitar music. Milonga later on became a
dance and kept the name of African origin.
Black influences: their dances or Candombes.
European influences: Tango Andaluz, which  was not a dance but a type of
song, variation of canto Flamenco, coming from southern Spain. It was
brought to America as part of Spanish theater or Spanish musicals that later
on became Spanish Operas called Zarzuelas.
The word tango seems to be of African origin as well. It originally meant
"enclosed space", it evolved to mean the place where blacks danced and
finally it referred to the dance itself. This word appears in Spain as Tango
Andaluz, because this music modality was "of ida y vuelta" (of UP and Dawn,
or going and returning) referring to the fact that was music that originated
in Spain, went to America and returned to Spain modified.
The Habanera, I am not going to discuss this today in order to stick to your
question.
*Italian influence:* It seems to me that the best example of the Italian
influence in tango is to read the names of the persons that caused its
development.
Musicians: Osvaldo Pugliese, Osvaldo Fresedo, Carlos Di Sarli, Roberto
Firpo, Astor Piazzolla, Angel D'Agostino, Francisco Canaro, Pedro Maffia,
just to  name a few.
Poets, Enrique Cadicamo, Mario Battistella, Jose Maria Contursi, Pascual
Contursi, Enrique Santos Discepolo, Homero Exposito, Homero Manzi, Jose
Staffolani, to name a few.

In summary: Italian immigrant were great musicians who taught their love for
music to their children.
The Italo-Argentineans in turn became obsessed with tango, the music and the
lyrics.
This music then has to have, without any doubt some color, some taste of the
mother country.
But if this is not so...

Enrico I am glad that it sounds like home to you! It sounds the same way to
me!.:-)
                                      Auguri tanti, Sergio





Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:19:15 +0100
From:    Natarajan Balasundara <rajan  @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Italians, anything to do with tango?



Original Message-----
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa  @infovia.com.ar>
Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:37 PM




>European influences: Tango Andaluz, which  was not a dance but a type
of
>song, variation of canto Flamenco, coming from southern Spain. It was
>brought to America as part of Spanish theater or Spanish musicals that
later
>on became Spanish Operas called Zarzuelas.


Now, flamenco came with the migration of gypsies west ward
with their origins in norhtern India starting more than 2000 years ago
(an excellent film 'pacho drom',  and I hope I have the name right,
traces
their migration  all the way from india across eastern europe and
spain).
So, when I listen to tango, it sounds like home to me as well ;-)

rajan.





End of TANGO-L Digest - 22 Mar 2000 to 23 Mar 2000 (#2000-80)
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