The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 18 Mar 2000
to 19 Mar 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 03:00:38 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 18 Mar 2000 to 19 Mar 2000 (#2000-76)
There are 6 messages totalling 281 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. The End.....( of the summer).
2. La Cumparsita: 20 versions
3. inspiration & Yo-Yo Ma
4. Blood, life, death, and tango lyrics (2)
5. what is tango?
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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:27:28 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: The End.....( of the summer).
I try to learn something from any experience but more so from the unpleasant
ones.
My conclusion after this last exchange of ideas. (For what they are worth).
I received about 65 notes by private E-Mail, expressing different concerns.
1- One or two, asserting their rights to free speech, even when it came to
attacking, insulting, humiliating innocents passers- by, that had the stupid
idea of asking a question.* Ku-Kux-Klan type.
2- A few, some in the Castilian language; professional or CEO type;
asserting that they used to post and contribute to the List but had become
so disappointed with the continuous gossip and personal attacks that finally
demoralized, they had desisted.
3- Finaly, the largest group wrote stating that they shared my views without
reservations; wished they could express them in public, but they did not do
so because they were afraid of reprisals by the "gang of four". :-)
I think that something is rotten in Denmark, when people are terrorized in
this fashion. Where are *their* rights to free speech?
Should we condemn our moderator for trying to limit this type of abuse?
I wish to clarify that I don't even know him, although we were introduced
during one of my trips to Boston.
-*Here I reproduce a note, the shortest I found; to show what I am trying to
explain.
"Bravo, Sergio. Thanks for speaking out.
Your postings are always interesting and relevant, and they encourage the
kind of discussion that belongs on the list.
I wish I could express my support publicly, on the list , along with my
resentment against those who launch these attacks, but frankly I don't want
to be the target of their attacks. It is sad (and somewhat frightening) that
a discussion group devoted to tango can become so contentious and angry. It
seems clear that a very small number of people are responsible for this
atmosphere, and it is also clear what kind of people they are. I have known
individuals like this in real life, and I avoid them at all costs. They
poison every gathering they are a part of.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts, and I hope they continue."
-*Another intersting note received this morning:
"And last but not least . . . How do we get americans to observe the line of
dance? For me that's more important than how some ones mothers mother
learned how to dance tango in Argentina :-)"
I agree, this is a very diverse group of people; some mostly professional,
with British spelling, others the likes of Mike Tyson and Rose Ann Barr, the
hole cultural rainbow in between. It is very difficult to satisfy every ones
interests.
If one writes without saying who he is, somebody doubts his qualifications
for talking; if he is forced to say who he is, then somebody states that
academia is something to serious for this Line. You never win!
Here in the Southern Hemisphere, Summer at the beach is reaching an end; I
look out the window and see the beautiful, blue sea, the seagulls,
surfboarders, the beautiful sun. The temperature is 80F.( 25C).
I think I am going to take my boat out and go fishing while you find out how
to make Americans dance counterclock wise. Good Luck!
PS. I hope nobody asks, why did you mention Denmark?- Respectfully, a JOKE!
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:54:58 -0800
From: Mark Celaya <mark-joan-tango @JUNO.COM>
Subject: La Cumparsita: 20 versions
To Jean-Pierre Jacquet who inquired about this CD (3/17/00) & to all list
members who are interested, a new release is called: "La Cumparsita -
Gerardo H. Matos Rodriguez" ~ BMT-022
It contains 20 versions of the most famous tango of all:
1. Juan Maglio - 1912
2. Alonso Minotto - 1917
3. Roberto Diaz - 1926
4. Edgardo Donato - 1935
5. Juan D`Arienzo -1937
6. Los Ases del Tango - 1946
7. Orquesta Tipica Victor - 1926
8. Francisco Lomuto - 1936
9. Cayetano Puglisi - 1929
10. Bianco-Bachicha - 1928
11. Osvaldo Fresedo - 1943
12. Carlos Gardel - 1923
13. Ciriaco Ortiz - 1936
14. Roberto Firpo - 1937
15. Francisco Canaro - 1933
16. Ricardo Tanturi - 1940
17. Rudolfo Biagi - 1942
18. Alfredo De Angelis - 1944
19. Anibal Troilo - 1947
20. Carlos Di Sarli - 1951
It is available now on my website for $14.95
Best Regards,
Mark Celaya
http://home.att.net/~mark-joan-tango
________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:38:33 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: inspiration & Yo-Yo Ma
Original Message-----
From: Eugenia Spitkovsky <euginas @EROLS.COM>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 5:39 AM
>Yo-Yo Ma's probes with Tango were inspired by the N/um chai, Bushman
>music from the Kalahari desert, also known as a trance dance that is
>40,000 years old (Harvard Magazine, March-April 2000, p.49). According
This article is available on-line at:
http://www.harvard-magazine.com/issues/ma00/yoyoma.html
rajan.
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:46:03 -0800
From: David Mendoza <dmendoza @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood, life, death, and tango lyrics
Dear List,
On Feb. 29, Tom Stermitz was discussing how Lunfardo enriches the flavor of
Tango lyrics, and pointed out how its use had created so many wonderful
"slang" representations for 'man' and 'woman' . Then he stated: "By
comparison, how sallow and neutered is English!"
I understand how the Tango can make one enamored of all things Argentine.
But I cannot accept his characterization of the English language as "shallow
and neutered". English is an extremely rich language with a deep vocabulary
and penchant for slang, thanks to our multi-lingual roots, which include
various Anglo-Saxon and Celtic tribal tongues, plus Latin, French, and even
an occasional Spanish word (loco, taco, to start).
Consider how many words there are for 'woman' in English. Just off the top
of my head, I can think of--female, girl, lassie, lass, Miss (title), miss
(as in Sweet 16), Ms. Mrs., the missus, (as in your wife), maid, gal, broad,
dame, filly, doll, chick, bird (England), dude-ette, sheila (Australian),
lady, moll, Madam (as in the title), madam (as in female owner of a
brothel), slut, trollop, Ma'am (as in the American South), toots, wife,
mistress (as in other-than-one's wife), mistress (as in boss or slave
owner), whore, virgin, bride, prostitute, lady-of-the-night, witch, bitch,
maiden, matron, spinster, widow, siren, succubus, hot mama, and babe. Can
you think of more?
I've been dancing and listening to Tango for over a decade and went through
my own period of romanticizing the Argentines and their culture. Now, after
experiencing an equal share of frustration, annoyance, and even outrage at
certain segments/traits of the Argentine culture, I've come to appreciate
that people are people, whether Argentine, American, German or whatever. I
prefer to celebrate the creativity that drives us all to express ourselves
with words. Hopefully, one day the Tango will lead you back to an
appreciation of the good things your own culture (language) has to offer and
realize that you don't have to reject your own self to dance. Remember, you
don't have be to Italian to sing Opera; you don't have to be an American
teenager to rock'n'roll; you don't have to be French to dance ballet; and
you don't have to be Argentine to dance Tango--even dance it well.
I wish you many good Tangos,
Nancy Stevens Mendoza
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:31:43 -0500
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Blood, life, death, and tango lyrics
Hello List,
Nancy wrote:
> On Feb. 29, Tom Stermitz was discussing how Lunfardo enriches the flavor
of
> Tango lyrics, and pointed out how its use had created so many wonderful
> "slang" representations for 'man' and 'woman' . Then he stated: "By
> comparison, how sallow and neutered is English!"
>
> I understand how the Tango can make one enamored of all things Argentine.
> But I cannot accept his characterization of the English language as
"shallow
> and neutered". English is an extremely rich language with a deep
vocabulary
> and penchant for slang, thanks to our multi-lingual roots, which include
> various Anglo-Saxon and Celtic tribal tongues, plus Latin, French, and
even
> an occasional Spanish word (loco, taco, to start).
Years ago when I studied linguistics, I remember learning that English is a
language of 400,000 words, while French, by comparison, has 40,000. This is
one of the reasons the French have a language police to try to keep English
OUT of French life. They are afraid of being overwhelmed. So useful terms
like "le weekend" are forbidden. I do not know how many words there are in
Spanish, but I am guessing it's about the same. Lunfardo, as a creole
language may have more.
Nancy is correct. English is a wonderful, full, expressive and responsive
language. It is constantly changing, and adapting to new things and
circumstances. It is no accident that English is the language of the
Internet. And this fact will cause it to become even more widely known.
I am always impressed by the contributions to this list from members around
the world for whom English is a second language. They express themselves
wonderfully well, even if the grammar and spelling are sometimes a little
strange. I know that even though I speak (rusty) Spanish, French, Italian
and a little Japanese, I would not want to try to express thoughts about
tango, in writing, in any of them.
I agree with someone who wrote here that there are advantages to NOT
understanding the lyrics sometimes. When I close my eyes to dance, I can be
swept away by the melody, the rhythm, and what I THINK is the emotion of the
music. I prefer NOT to be thinking about a man who lost a lot of money on a
horserace!
Is it heretical to suggest you don't have to be immersed in the culture or
history of Argentina to enjoy tango? Does lack of interest in these effect
one's dancing? I don't think so - what do you think?
...and> you don't have to be Argentine to dance Tango--even dance it well.
Halleluiah!
Thanks Nancy, for an interesting point. And to confirm your point about
nationalities, you should SEE how the Parisiens dance rock n' roll at the
Slow Club, or Gabriel Misse at a break in a milonga. Elvis would be proud.
Melinda
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:53:26 -0500
From: Julie Taylor <jtaylor @RICE.EDU>
Subject: what is tango?
once I was present when a tango maestro asked a group What Is Tango? They
said:
Sensation. the Past. Emotion. the Future. the Sad Thought.
Communication. "That's strange," said the maestro. "I would have said
Geranium"
yo hubiera dicho malv=F3n.
Julie Taylor
Julie Taylor
Professor
Department of Anthropology
Rice University
End of TANGO-L Digest - 18 Mar 2000 to 19 Mar 2000 (#2000-76)
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