The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 17 Mar 2000
to 18 Mar 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:00:17 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 17 Mar 2000 to 18 Mar 2000 (#2000-75)
There are 9 messages totalling 341 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. inspiration & Yo-Yo Ma
2. Online tango bibliography.
3. Somebody is trying to destroy Tango-L
4. Fighting at milongas
5. El Tigre Speaks
6. No subject was specified.
7. Conflict on the Tango Lists (2)
8. Alive with fire with our feet on the ground
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:20:11 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: inspiration & Yo-Yo Ma
Original Message-----
From: Eugenia Spitkovsky <euginas @EROLS.COM>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 5:39 AM
>What made you dance tango? Do you feel you found courage to get on a
>dance floor, or begin playing the music, or was it a need you had to
>satisfy?
>
For me, it was a sense of nostalgia(for the music), almost.
Nostalgia for things that never were! I did not grow up listening
to it but when I heard the music it was as if I had heard it
a long time before.
The same kind of nostalgia that I felt(and I am not alone) when I read
'One hundred years of solitude'. That is, both create a wonderful world
which one wants to get into and by the end(of the book, of the evening)
feels as if one had lived it and now has to get back to reality and is
going
to miss it(once again, in 'Tango: The obsession', one of the milangueros
says something like he is so obsessed by tango that he can not get
enough
of it, needs several injections of tango all over him to sustain him).
Both are from around the same region and I feel the message from
both are the same: that with reason or even *without* reason there
will always be life and magic...
rajan.
>Eugenia
>
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:56:17 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Online tango bibliography.
I wrote:
>
> One of the resources of online tango bibliographies
> (french, spanish, english) with some hyperlinks is at:
>
> http://perso.club-internet.fr/tango/INDEX.HTML
>
It is acutally:
http://perso.club-internet.fr/tango/
(no INDEX.HTML)...
> under tango bibliography.
>
>
>rajan.
>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:26:56 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Somebody is trying to destroy Tango-L
Ruddy Zelaya wrote:
I will summarize his points .
1- "Lets pretend that this is a chat at the cafe." - Fine, lets pretend.
2- "I do not sponsor censorship. THAT JOB IS ALREADY TAKEN".
This is an accusation to the moderator of Tango-L. I have been reading
and cotributing to this list for several months now.
I have witnesses during this period, the efforts of a small group of people,
that due to their personal interests, are trying to destroy Tango-L. *My own
experience*. I was contacted by private mail, in a very polite way, asking
me to send copies of my postings to another publication. Which I regularly
did. Later on, I was contacted asking that I should ONLY write for the other
publication.I was given a series of reasons to explain that Tango-L was
under the dictatorship of its moderator. I ignored those allegetions, for
malicious, false, selfserving, completely absurd. I continued to write to
Tango-L and to send copies to the other publication. Next the one of the two
MODERATORS, from a publication that states that has no moderators, sent me
a note stating that I was responding to postings of someone that was not
part of that list, (he was refering to Steve Hoffman) "please do not sen any
more Sh*t here". I complyed, and continued posting to Tango-L. This caused
further irritation in the MODERATOR, or the *unmoderated* list; who started
sending hate male. Attacks, insults of all sort, reminds of our common
nationality, and much more. I continued to post to Tango-L.
I touched many topics, What is tango, places for dancing, early cafes, bars,
prostitution places; later "Dancing Houses", Compadritos, Country-Western,
etc.
Nobody ever said "this particular element is untrue, incorrect, misliding."
He then tryed to attack my sources of information, I respoded that my
sources were the same as his, or any one else's.
Now he is trying to silence me through attacks from some of his friends.
Why?THEY ARE TRYING TO DISTROY TANGO-L. The best way is to silence those
that keep the line going, the ones that originate interesting discussions;
so that the Tango-L would become boring, uninteresting, useless.
The final word is you are either with us or against us.
3- Ruddy Zelaya, asks "experts" to exercice restrain and know what they are
talking about before responding to questions.
I always did, I am a Medical Doctor, I have taught in hospitals and
Universities. I usually know what I am talking about.
My sources are many: my life, I grew up in Argentina, verbal information
from all types, Tango history books from people that are considered to be
authorities in the field, Jose Gobello, Horacio Ferrer, Manuel Galvez,
Francisco Garcia Gimenez, Horacio Salas, and many others. These authors use
sources of information such as the National Archives, the Federal Police
Archives, the Library of Congress, the newspapers archives, etc.
4 - "What bothers me is the spreading of misinformation".
What misinformation? any specific subject?. I will assert that any
information by me given is absolutely correct, obtained from the above
mentioned sources; which are recognized as authorities in their field. I
have used the cientific investigative process to which I am used due to my
profession.
5- Ruddy then quotes Mr. Manzzi's note written to him in 1996.
I find this totally irrelevant. It refers to somebody and something unknown
to us.
Summary, I reject your explanation, for malicious, and unfounded. Your
explanations clearly do not apply to me.
What I have written is founded in the above sources. Books that are
available to any one for consultation.
If some questions or misunderstandings originate is due to the fact that
postings to a Tango list should be brief.
They give origin to further explanations. No harm or confusion caused.
The purpose of my witings is to create interest in certain things, rather
than just give information.
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:26:38 -0800
From: Al & Barbara <batango @SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Fighting at milongas
Dear List,
Al and I saw a fight almost start at a neighborhood milonga in Buenos
Aires in 1990, between two very well-known milongueros. Evidently it was
about a non-tango issue concerning a fence between their houses, and others
pulled them about before any damage was done. Here in the Bay Area there
was a little incident at a big dance a few years ago, Tango Libertad, and
there have been a couple at Tango By The Bay among eminent U.S. based tango
teachers. Just so we don't get too smug about our cool northern blood
(Although in most cases there was at least one Argentine involved)
Barbara
Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:01 AM
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 15 Mar 2000 to 16 Mar 2000 (#2000-73)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:57:02 -0600
From: Tom Ronquillo <chitiger @MAIL.DAVE-WORLD.NET>
Subject: El Tigre Speaks
It is unfortunate that we are experiencing another round of conflict over
the internet. Conflict has always existed in life and always will because
differences between ideas make some individuals and groups
uncomfortable. Even the relatively small community of our two tango
servers is not immune from strife.
I personally have no problem with the skirmishes that erupt in familiar
cycles. I am no stranger to conflict, verbal or physical. I do wonder
though about the impact of the pyrotechnics on those gentle souls who
comprise the great silent majority of list recipients. The truly wonderful
aspect of having an internet tango community is the feeling of being
connected to a diverse group of people with a common interest. Experts and
novices alike should be welcomed into any discussion and people should be
able to ask questions freely without fearing the wrath of those who have
previously addressed a given issue.
How many times should we be subjected to questions about things like the
infamous 8-count basic? I say as many times as someone asks about it or any
other topic that interests them. If I don't like what I see in a posted
header I can always use my delete button. It consumes far less time than
posting a response. If I feel strongly about an issue, I can post my views
and encourage debate; however, debates are best when people eventually make
their final arguments and then stop.
Tom (El Tigre) Ronquillo
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:01:47 +0100
From: Jean-Pierre Jacquet <jpjfilms @CYBERCABLE.FR>
Subject: No subject was specified.
Hi,
I have heard that there is a new cd out with a compilation of 20
renditions of La cumparsita. is that a fact?
Thanks for any info.
Jean-Pierre Jacquet
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:13:13 +0000
From: Felix Delgado <felixmilonguero @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Conflict on the Tango Lists
I suspect most of the members of this list are educated professionals. At
work and in our communities we probably usually abide by a code of
behavior where verbal attacks are frowned upon. We agree that we can
disagree, but that differences of opinion should be expressed in a
respectful manner. Personal attacks, put-downs, snide comments, etc. are
taboo within professional communities. To behave otherwise compromises
our professional status.
I think that when we get onto the internet, it's like we're driving on
the freeway. We may honk and shout obscenities at other cars that offend
us. We can do this because we don't come face-to-face. On the internet we
see each others' signatures, but not each others' faces. That's why our
behavior at the milongas is better than on the e-mail list.
List members, if you want to make a personal attack, respond to that
person directly. There's no reason for this list to become a theatre for
personal hostilities. The truth is, those who resort to verbal attacks
may think they are clever, but there a lot of people out there thinking
they're only revealing their depravity. Perhaps when other list members
finally meet these characters at a milonga, face-to-face, they won't want
to dance with them.
Felix
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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 01:15:18 +0100
From: Alexis Cousein <al @BRUSSELS.SGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Conflict on the Tango Lists
Felix Delgado wrote:
> I suspect most of the members of this list are educated professionals.
I consider myself to be one, yes.
> At work and in our communities we probably usually abide by a code of
> behavior where verbal attacks are frowned upon.
Well, I work at the company who's invented the internal "bad attitude"
usenet newsgroup, so this does ot necessarily hold ;).
> Personal attacks, put-downs, snide comments, etc. are
> taboo within professional communities.
See above. I don't agree -- though I agree that the bad-attitude stuff
should have its own forum (time for a tango-bad.attitude mailing list on
the listserv?). Political Correctness at all cost all the time also has
its price -- bluntness can also serve a purpose at times.
Of course, even on no-holds-barred forums, there's *qualitative*
bad-attitude, and inane mudslinging and at-hominem attacks.
> List members, if you want to make a personal attack, respond to that
> person directly. There's no reason for this list to become a theatre for
> personal hostilities.
The charter of this mailing list is pretty clear about that. This isn't
a b-a forum, and anyone who can read the charter is left in no doubt
about that.
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:34:21 MST
From: Judy Margolis <tangomas @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Alive with fire with our feet on the ground
Dear List
We are alive at last. I'm not sure if I enjoy this recent debate regarding,
dare I say, integrity of historical representation, more for the knowledge I
gain or for the observation of the exercise. It is, if nothing else, very
entertaining.
First of all we are all so damn academic. But then there is a place for the
academia. It's a valuable part of our lives.
Second of all, I think we should ponder more on what is said rather than how
it is said.
Thirdly, do we all have to take ourselves so seriously?
Fourthly (if there is such a word?) Don't stop the debate, on any topic,
that's what sharing is all about.
And last but not least . . . How do we get americans to observe the line of
dance? For me that's more important than how some ones mothers mother
learned how to dance tango in Argentina :-)
Jon
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 17 Mar 2000 to 18 Mar 2000 (#2000-75)
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