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Digest from 5 Mar 2000
to 6 Mar 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 5 Mar 2000 to 6 Mar 2000 (#2000-63)
There are 4 messages totalling 381 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. New Tango Orchestras
2. Etiquette (2)
3. The Times review of Una Noche de Tango in London
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:16:16 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: New Tango Orchestras
In the nineties, when everybody thought that the Great Tango Orchestras were
gone for good; new groups started to appear with the styles that had been
the boom in the forties, along with the resucitation of the dance.
There are aproximately fifteen orchestras that follow the Milonguero
circuit; they use as reference the style of legendary figures such as
Alfredo Gobbi, Julio DeCaro, Osvaldo Pugliese, Juan D'Arienzo y Alfredo De
Angelis.Some of those orchestras are lead by soloists that formed part of
the famous orchestras of the golden years.
Some of the names are Color Tango, Los Reyes del Tango, Gigi De Angelis,
Bebe Pugliese, Jorge Dragone y Ernesto Franco. Ohrers are formed by young
musicians, such as El Arranque, which appeared about four years ago or the
more recent Fernandez Branca Tipica that folows the O. Pugliese Style, like
many other. Leopoldo Federico is probably the only one that has been playing
for the last forty years. There are also more and more tango places offering
live music on weekends.
There is also the proyect of a new School to form tango musicians according
to the old characteristics; directed by the young musician Ignacio
Varchansky.
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:26:27 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Etiquette
Original Message-----
From: Robert Hink <rhink2 @NETSCAPE.NET>
Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 5:10 AM
>Let me describe 3 incidents. The first was related
>to me by a beginning dancer who was encouraged by her
>instructor to attend a milonga. A man asked her for
>dance. They took about 3 steps when the man stopped
>and said, "You haven't been doing this very long,
>have you?" The beginning dancer said, "Only about
>a month." The man thanked her and walked away. The
>lady never attended another milonga.
>
>The second happened to me when I first started to
>venture out of the studio to milongas. I asked
>a more experienced dancer for a tango. Without
>saying a word she slowly shook her head only
>barely acknowledging that I had requested a dance
>in the first place. I said, "I'll take that as
>a 'No'." It took me awhile before I was willing to
>ask someone for a dance again but never with that women.
>
>Incidently, last week a friend and I were sharing untoward
>tango experiences at a milonga. I told him that story.
>About 10 minutes later he came back and told me that the same
>thing had just happened to him. Have I missed something?
>Are deliberate 'put downs' part of tango?
>
For a women, especially if new, against all instincts of wanting
to dance with the best dancer with the showiest tango, it would
perhaps be best to choose to dance with someone with whom
all his partners looks happy while dancing, no matter what their own
skill level seems to be.
This assumes, of course she has the opportunity to choose(women
invite holding the gaze for at least a moment..if not staring).
And once asked, dancing with some smile, if possible.
This will help get invitations from other men once they have seen
her dance...especially men who are standing in the corner wondering
if they are going to be stuck by lighting if they were to ask her.
The same, I guess, is true for a woman happens to be out of town as
well.
On the other hand, if invited for a dance without being asked to be
invited by someone who pops out of the column from behind,
she could smile and and say that she has justed started dancing
yesterday and enquire with a nice smile if he would still like to
dance. Most decent milangueros would, I think, once they have
asked someone to dance, will at least dance two dances. If they
are not decent enough, they will not dance any ....and one would
not want to dance with him anyways :-).
May be there are times when the best dancer happens to be the
nicest...in which case, probably a lot of men/women will want to dance
with her/him and so, I suppose in that case one has to take a ticket
and wait in line ;-)
Not all women or men are alike. So, if someone is rude(man or woman)
best thing perhaps is not to ask them again instead of assuming that
everyone is the same way -- especially because one will eventaully
come to the same conclusion if one is to dance at all.
However, it may help to take a break, regroup, and sit in the corner
and mope for a while, if wish be, after the first putdown (which most
people will do this anyways :-) and regain some calmnesss before
asking the next person. Otherwise, there is the danger of looking
severe or irritable and this may precipitate another 'no' soon after
the first one and a second 'no' is usually even less palatable than the
first.
Cheers!
rajan.
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:04:57 +0100
From: "Gabriella C. Marino" <gcmarino @IOL.IT>
Subject: The Times review of Una Noche de Tango in London
February 28 2000 DANCE
Sensual, romantic and beguiling, Tango Por Dos has Donald Hutera
swooning
It may take two, but ten is dynamite
We all know how many bodies it takes to tango. But having seen Una Noche De
Tango, I'd plump for a rejigging of the maths. It should take five times
two, exactly the number of dancers in this latest spectacle from the
Argentine company Tango Por Dos.
Noche opened a five-week run at London's Peacock Theatre last
Thursday. It's the sexiest thing on ten legs, enough to send the sale of
tango lessons in the capital through the roof. This most adult of social
dances originated in the back streets and brothels of Buenos Aires around
the 1880s. Trend-setting Continentals helped raise it to the status of
international craze. Tango's subsequent popularity waxed and waned, but it
was given a massive boost by the global success of Tango Argentino some 20
years ago.
Miguel Angel Zotto, a man of the streets, met ballet-trained modern
dancer Milena Plebs while both were performing in one of that show's tours.
Despite, or perhaps because of, their contrasting backgrounds they clicked,
offstage as well as on. The pair formed Tango Por Dos in 1988. Plebs
relinquished claims on the company, and the roving Zotto, just a few years
ago. She is still credited, however, as co-conceiver and choreographer of
their third production, Noche. A smart, slick piece of work it is, too,
combining subtle theatrics with pull-out-all-the-stops showmanship.
Loosely engineered as a romanticised history of tango styles, the evening is
a period piece cut in two distinct halves. The first act affectionately
conjures the slightly shabby comforts of a typical Buenos Aires milonga, or
dancehall, from half a century or more ago. In the second, the scene
switches to a posh Parisian nightclub, a setting of art deco-styled
sophistication neatly suggestive of the movies. Besides emphasising tango's
working-class roots and its later gentrification, both locations are
atmospheric arenas for a range of spirited, sensual dancing.
Zotto and Plebs weave considerable variety, wit and detailed invention
into the choreography. It's plainly visible in the way Natacha Poberaj lifts
her impossibly long leg, spiderishly wrapping it high up around Ricardo
Barrios' back; in the rubber-footed, heel-clicking carnival routine of Erica
Boaglio and Adrian Aragon; and in the scintillatingly savage
slice-and-scythe of Osvaldo Zotto and goddessy Lorena Ermocida's lower
limbs.
An additional pleasure is the company's light grasp of character. Sleek,
slit-skirted women and dapper gentlemen (the excellent costumes are by Jorge
Ferrari) mingle in the milonga section, ordinary citizens with a shared
interest in the act of formalised carnality that is tango. Structuring this
act round mimed behavioural vignettes makes the dancing seem both fresh and
familiar.
Things heat up further in Act II, cued by pianist Jorge Rutman's zesty,
seven-piece band and the cutting urgency of Astor Piazzolla's music.
The dancers' age range is 20 to 40-something; I missed the presence of even
older dancers and, due to opening night indisposition, the Vesuvius-like
emotionality of curvaceous singer Roxana Fontan, whose place was taken by
gracious, silver-haired Quique Ojeda.
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 16:55:41 -0800
From: Steve Hoffman <DrSteveH @IBM.NET>
Subject: Etiquette
Regarding Robert Hinks' experiences with etiguette-challenged dancers:
Yes, Robert, what you experienced is not that rare, especially when you a
relatively new dancer. Many of us have felt somilar rejections. I have
seen and experienced outright meanness and even manifestations of a
psychological viciousness on some people's parts.
This is far more common when you are a weak or new dancer, when you are
emotionally vulnerable (newcomer, beginning dancer), and when you don't
know the darker side of the sociological rules and more selfish side of
tango. As you become a better dancer, and attain more personal confidence,
women will wish to dance with you, rather than avoid you, and, people who
are capable of acting the way you describe will simply put on a different
face when you interact with them, because you have something to give them
that they want.
When I began in tango, I too thought that everyone should have the courtesy
to dance with everyone (unless there were negative personal experiences or
inappropriate behavior involved). I was profoundly offended by several
people I tried to dance with. I was viciously criticized, and even set up
to fail, by several. There were (and are) quite a number of women (the
younger, prettier, and better dancers) who, for years, have ignored me -
pretended that I was not there, not in the room, not at the workshop.
(Now that I am a better dancer, some of them are finally looking my way,
clearly indicating that I could ask them to dance, but after three years of
nary a glance or acknowledgement that I existed... I'm afraid it's too
late.)
Fortunately, the mean people, and the cruel experiences, are in the
minority, but, they have a lot of impact when you are new. Most people are
great, and there are those who will, with genuine kindness and helpfulness,
assist a new leader in getting his feet on the ground. Among other things,
it is a good idea to look around, pay attention, and figure out as best you
can who are the women with the nice dispositions and natural warmth, who
will be kind and friendly to newcomers as part of their basic natures.
As in all aspects of social life, whether examined from a scientific or
personal perspective, it is very clear that there are hierarchies of
attractiveness and social/sexual power. These phenomena are very
influential in tango, and far more so in Argentina than here (fortunately).
Bob, we don't know who you are, in terms of looks, dance, attitude - but in
general, I would advise you: Don't go after the "babes", if you don't
want to get shot down. If one "measures" three attributes of women
dancers: youth, looks, and dance ability.... and, if one does an
unscientific (but valid) summation of those three variables, one will
generally find that these "high-end" tangueras will be the ones who: won't
acknowledge hellos or smiles, won't dance with newcomers; won't dance with
guys who don't look the part, for them, and tend to be self-absorbed and
focused on associating with their alpha-male equivalents on the floor, and
in the social areas of the milonga.
This is life. This is the way it's always been, and is a socio-biological
inevitablity to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the culture and
the micro-environment. Unfortunately, in the USA, there is a double hit,
in that culturally, sociologically, we are rather far down the ladder in
terms of manners and social graces. Americans, especially those less than
middle-age, are notoriously under-educated in everything from making small
talk, to introducing strangers, to giving of themselves and looking out for
people who are shy or new. Where I have lived and traveled in Latin
America, people often express shock at how socially bizarre and cold
Americans are. (But, as I have said before, in the only non-"latin"
country of South America, namely Argentina, things are not much better than
in the US, in terms of cultural warmth or interest in strangers. (This is
my experience; I don't wish to get into this discussion again on the list,
thank you)
Having said that, though, I think there are mitigating factors, some of
which that are almost unique to tango, which should be considered in this
question of tango etiquette. Seriously, I now understand these less-polite
dancers a lot better, and I almost accept some of their behavior. (To be
perfectly honest, I have shifted my own behevior toward their axis, to a
degree).
I guess it has to do with that mythical, oft-mentioned, but indefinable
experience of the embrace, the passion, the "connection", and the
deadly-seriousness of tango. Yes, it is more than just a dance. There is
something deep, and special that you begin to sense after you've been
dancing for awhile, and especially if you begin to study the history, the
traditions, and see the culture at its source. People return and return to
tango for many reasons, but one of them is probably a neurobiological
substrate, possibly endorphin-mediated, involving ancient circuits that
resonate to rhythm, melody, beauty, touch, embrace, breathing eath other's
air, inhaling and processing the other's pheremones, powerful stuff.
People are reacting to tango for reasons that they can barely comprehend.
An attraction, a passion, a crush; a pursuit, curisoity, friendship,
flirting; meditation; a return to the womb, being held, cradled, taken
care of. Trenner once said tango was talking a women on a walk in a
beautiful and romantic place.
So, tango no longer becomes a thing you do casually. It is not a lark, not
a sport, not a joke. When you hacked around the floor as a beginner, and
spoofed your errors, and ran into people but didn't think it was that
important - that was one phase: the beginner's psychology. Then it becomes
something good, and you pass it around with everybody, and you stumble
around with anybody, and you like it more and more.
But then, I think, comes a later stage, where you begin to honor it,
cherish it, respect it. You want to do your best. You want to give your
best. You want your tango to be meaningful, and an exchange of genuine
warmth and caring. The people that you dance with now are the essence,
they create the quality and allow the exression, the creativity, the joy,
the fun, the mystery, the sensuality.
So, the person you dance with becomes very important. Not in the sense
that they have to be beautiful, or young (those things can become quite
unimportant), but yes in the sense of: warmth, friendliness, charm,
sensuality, grace, manners, style. When you consider the remarkably
different kinds of feeling, or visceral reaction, you get with different
partners, you know how dramatically your partner's traits influence your
own style, energy, and theme of your dance.
What I am trying to say is this: Life is short, most of us are not that
young, there are a limited number of tangos left, and the tangos we have
are very important. For many people in tango, it is their only
significant social life. They are not ordinary (or shall we say, average)
people. They tend to be educated, single, childless; or divorced;
intellectual, or artist; passionate, romantic in their tango dreams and
desires. They want to have meaningful tango dances, and for their partners
as well. They want to have the dances that they dream of, and they want to
have them with people that they know, or like, or want to know, or are
attracted to. But most of all, they want dances that are enjoyable and
sweet.
Therefore, for all these reasons, and many more, when you go to a milonga,
some of the regular or more experienced dancers are perhaps NOT interested
in dancing with strangers, with people who are clumsy or inexperienced, or
with people whose attitudes or intentions are questionable. What they feel
and experience in that milonga is very important to them, and they want to
have quality experiences. They are not there to meet or test, or help,
newcomers. To me, now, this is all more understandable, and I now
appreciate a lot more why certain "high-end" milonguera won't dance with
beginning leaders, or men that they are not attracted to in some way. They
are targets, for better or worse. With their opportunities also comes the
hassle factor of dealing with men who don't realize that they are not yet
ready to be dancing with such and such a woman. It's the truth. Another
example is that of certain male professional dancers, and teachers, from
Argentina, who (I have heard) will not attend American milongas because
hordes of women who have seen the demonstation dance, or taken a workshop,
will come up in their face, right in front of others, and ask them to dance
- women who (frankly) would never end up dancing with such a dancer in any
other context. Rather than say no again and again, these men just don't
show up. Tango is not about charity, or kindness to strangers. Face it.
So, to break off now, I will simply bring up a very concrete point,
something that gets written about a lot (I sent in a long piece on this
severa months ago): the concept of how dancers are asked for, and
accepted, in the cross-cultural analysis.
In the USA, you get up, walk over, get in someone's face, and say
pointedly: "Do you want to dance?" (Sometimes, as we have written before,
this gets done in a brazen manner or inappropriate time, such as when while
the person is already talking intently with a friend or love-interest.)
But, in any case, without getting any pre-approval, or "the nod", from the
person in question, the asker goes up, risks it all on one roll, and has to
deal with everything from a flat-out "No", to an ambiguous,
passive-aggressive, or irritated response from a person who felt coerced
into dancing by the social conventions, all the way to a happy, "Yes".
This method is very "American"; it works (it has to work) in our
mixed-company socialization patterns, as seen our milongas, and yet, it
risks the major rejection, and the major hurt.
For comparison, there is the Argentine system, the one that is built-in and
integral to the origin of tango (and which in my experience is practically
the exclusive method still today), and that is the "eyes" method. As I
wrote in the past, there are many reasons for this, but certainly one of
them is the value of the "asking" and the "answering" that does not require
risking it all, or even getting up from your seat or opening your mouth.
It is far harder than our method, but, ultimately it offers much greater
discretion, subtlety, flexibility, and, before the person has expended
their intrapersonal capital on a binary yes/no (as we do), there are
gradations of how much contact, encouragement, or connection is being
sought. It won't work in the USA (I don't know about Europe), but it works
really well there. (A irony that may be lost on many Americans is that, in
spite of our culture's tendency to claim that women are oppressed more in
Latin American cultures, and have fewer rights and choices, the Argentine
method of asking for and accepting dances offers the Argentine woman a
degree of choice, independence and autonomy that is enormously greater than
here, unless the American women is prepared to brutally say "No", again and
again, right in front of men who have walked across the floor to ask them
to dance.)
So, Bob, we sympathize. Rudeness and unkindness of the type you described
will happen. It is deplorable, but inevitable - as it is based on human
nature (although countries and cultures differ greatly in practice). Dance
with people at your level, or with women who have given you some indication
that they acknowledge you. Don't go after the high-end types, unless you
are a lot more handsome and suave than the likes of us - you're just asking
to get rejected. There are lots of women who don't get to dance that much,
but are excellent followers. Ask them.
I ran into an Argentine guy I know from the Bay Area in a milonga in Bs.As.
in December. Almost the very first thing he uttered were the words, "Tango
is cruel." Yes, it can be true. But I think tango is far less cruel here
than there. We do have generally nice and decent people dancing here, but
you can't throw yourself at just anyone. Know your own self, wait for a
little sign, choose well, and things should work out. Good luck.
Steve Hoffman
End of TANGO-L Digest - 5 Mar 2000 to 6 Mar 2000 (#2000-63)
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