The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 25 Jun 2000
to 26 Jun 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 03:00:04 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 25 Jun 2000 to 26 Jun 2000 (#2000-174)
There are 5 messages totalling 233 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Cuba
2. Practice, practice
3. Tango and immigration (2)
4. Some misconceptions.
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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:59:48 +0200
From: Virginia Gift <vgift @ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Cuba
I've heard that in Cuba there is a museum dedicated to tango and Carlos
Gardel. Does anyone know anything about this?
Thanks,
Virginia
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:37:14 +0200
From: andy Ungureanu <Andy.Ungureanu @T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: Practice, practice
Melanie Archer schrieb:
> I didn't see mention of another reason for followers' hesitation to indulge
> in practicas: the
> unsolicited critiques we receive from leaders. I know that leaders also
> receive such verbalized
> performance judgements from followers, but I suspect these are less
> frequent.
To all followers!
I think this a really interesting point and this medium is the best to
obtain a result.
It is obvious that it is almost a miracle when the non verbal
communication of two bodies is perfect. Far more usual is the fact there
are problems, one or the other is not really comfortable with the dance.
I first try to change and adapt my leading (there are many ways and
philosophies), but it may be possible, the follower really makes
something wrong (wrong = the majority of the tango dancers
think it is wrong).
Usually I dont talk while dancing, neither teach anything in the
milonga. When I know somebody really well I might give some hints, the
reaction is usually positive, e.g. "Why didnt you tell this earlier?"
On the other side, I know the comments of the ladies about "teachers"
trying to explain every figure they learned few days ago to every lady ,
if she want it or not.
Now the question(s) (to be answered only by followers):
What do you prefer?? Should we talk about it? while dancing? after the
dance? Not at all?
Do you prefer only positive comments? (Do you really believe them? They
usually depend upon the way you look tonight)
Did you try to explain to the leader, something about his leading is not
OK? Or do you fear he will never ask you again?
This is the chance to tell the guys what you really want!
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 05:42:36 +0300
From: Hayri Erenli <mhayrie @ESCORTNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango and immigration
Larry wrote :
> Third, a lot of the discussion of lyrics seems to assume there
> was no evolution of them. I would suspect that as tango matured
> into the "Golden Age" that they would become happier (or at least
> more varied) to suit the newer times. And what about those being
> written now? Has tango completely ossified? Are the newest
> artists still writing the same themes, the same way?
Definitely not.
By the 50's, the tango WAS Ossified and had lost the interest of the
younger generation. That's when a young musician came to the stage
to change the ossified outlook completely. His name was Astor Piazzolla
and he had already made a name for himself as a formidable bandoneon
player. He had even played a small role in the movie "El Dia Que Me
Queridas" by the tango idol of his time, Carlos Gardel in New York.
After having been disillusioned by the tango musicians of his day,
Piazzolla turned to classical music and aimed to become a composer/
conductor. In 1954, when one of his compositions won a contest, he was
awarded a one-year study by the French government with the famous
teacher Nadia Boulanger in Paris. It was Boulanger who persuaded
Piazzolla to turn back to tango, the music of his country.
The music of Piazzolla is a mixture of classical music, jazz (he had spent
his youth in NY City) and tango. His work includes many tangos (both
instrumental and vocal), and classical music forms like suites, concertos,
etc.
Today, these compositions frequently find their way into the concert
programs.
But, many of his countrymen have not forgiven him for having dared to
change the tango so completely from dance music to concert music.
For those interested, the excellent biography by Simon Collier and Maria
Susana Azzi "Le Grand Tango" (Oxford University Press) is well recommended.
Hayri
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:00:45 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Some misconceptions.
There are some misconceptions that need to be clarified.
Argentineans enjoyed for several generations a life free of any wars. It has
been a very pacific country.
The wars that afflicted many other nations were never part of the
Argentinean reality.
Whenever problems appeared with other nations they were settled by
international arbitration.
The military dictatorship that ruled Argentina for seven years (1975 - 1982)
was supported by the USA as an effort to prevent communism to spread to our
continent. The nation never had much of that either as the left in Argentina
usually obtains less than 4% of the vote. The citizens favor parties of
center or center-right.
A total of 6000 people were documented to have disappeared, allegations of
higher numbers are unfounded.
During the Falkland's Island war with England about 700 Argentines were
killed, most of them in the attack of only one ship the Destroyer General
Belgrano.I believe that England lost about 250 men in the attack of another
ship the Sheffield. If one is to compare our loses in life with that of
other nations they are certainly minimal in number. So we might discuss/
argue but we certainly are not at each other's throat.
It is wrong to assume that milongueros/milongueras in Argentina have low
educational level.
Since education is free to the tertiary level (including universities) most
people are educated/instructed.
Their income might not be related to their level of education. Many
professionals, doctors, dentists, biologists, professors, never practice
their professions, they might perform other chores such as work as clerks,
drive taxis, go into business with the family , etc. This is quite different
in the USA, a country where education and income are usually related.
The reason they do not practice their professions is that there is a glut of
certain professions.
In Buenos Aires for instance there is a Medical Doctor for every 200 people;
being the ideal proportion 1/500.
Low social class in Argentina is quite different than the concept one has in
the USA for that class.
In Argentina it is a question of income more than education, intellectual
level or moral aptitude.
The history of Argentina started approximately 100 years earlier than that
of the USA.
The Rio de la Plata was discovered by Don Juan Diaz de Solis around 1515
about 100 years before the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. Buenos Aires
was founded for the second and last time in 1580.
Since Argentina did not have any plantations, the main occupation was cattle
ranching which did not require slaves.
Slave traffic in that country was insignificant, confined to household work.
Blacks disappeared because they intermarried freely with the Europeans. They
were also afflicted in higher numbers by the epidemic of yellow fever in
1870.
The first independent Argentinean government took office in 1810. The first
constitution in 1813 abolished slavery, the death penalty, any cruel
punishment, bull fights among other things. Since slaves were very few this
process was done in a pacific way.
Unemployment: Argentina has always enjoyed full employment, the average
unemployment rate until very recently was 2-3%.
This was what attracted so many immigrants looking for work. It was usually
difficult to replace a worker lost.
The global economy caused a big transformation in society. Most companies
were bought by transnational corporations that brought new technologies
which in turn caused massive dismissal of workers. More production was
achieved with much less labor force. This created an unemployment rate of
11-13%. Which is not higher than the one in many other countries fully
developed.
As to man and women looking for romantic involvement and sex... I do not
think that this is something new although I understand that it could seem to
be that way to some men at certain milongas whose women have to go abroad
looking for satisfaction. A very sad situation indeed!
May you have many good tangos.
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:41:43 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango and immigration
Original Message-----
From: Larry Carroll <larrydla @juno.com>
Date: Sunday, June 25, 2000 5:22 AM
>Lastly, very little of the tango music itself is intrinsically
>sad. Exchange the depressing lyrics for ones expressing
>contentment, happiness, or tranguility and Presto, Chango!
>the same orchestral background seems to express THOSE emotions.
>Change the angry lyrics for exuberant ones & the exact same music
>seems to metamorphose into something else. Take away the lyrics
>entirely - & every person may feel the music expresses a
>different emotion. And the same person at different times &
>circumstances may hear exactly the opposite emotion.
>
I was recently reading 'Pnin' a work by Nabokov, in which the main
character, Pnin(a soulful sad professor of literature) reflects:
'It is nothing but a kind of microcosmos of Communism -- all that
psychiatry,' rumbled Pnin, .... 'Why not leave their private sorrows
to people ? Is sarrows not, one asks, the only thing in the world
people really possess?'
I think it was (a happy american) Emerson(Ralph Waldo) (?)
who said:
'Laugh and the whole world laughs with you, weep and you weep
alone'
So, is it possible that songs of sadness(dominant, if not the
emotion of tango) are in fact, sharing at the most intimate level?
rajan.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 25 Jun 2000 to 26 Jun 2000 (#2000-174)
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