The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 22 Jun 2000
to 23 Jun 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 03:00:39 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 22 Jun 2000 to 23 Jun 2000 (#2000-171)
There are 6 messages totalling 220 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Let's clarify "mass immigration" and not freak out
2. Tango and immigration
3. Finally, reality.
4. women in classes
5. My take on everything.
6. Practice, practice
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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:12:33 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Let's clarify "mass immigration" and not freak out
Jack Karako wrote:
> What is then being human? If not education, professionalism (productive work), sophistication (growth) ?
Empathy.
But if that is not sufficient an answer, there are several
sites that will come up if one looks up 'being+human' one of
which is:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/06135.html
rajan.
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:50:48 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Tango and immigration
During the period that goes from the defeat of Napoleon 1815 till the
beginning of WW1 1914, approximately 60 million people emigrated from
Europe. Half of them came to the USA (30,000,000) the other half emigrated
to the rest of the world, primarily Australia, Argentina, Canada and the
rest of the American Continent. Most of those immigrants came from rural
areas of Europe, the exception were the criminal and mentally ill,
systematically shipped by England to her colonies and the ones emigrating
due to political or religious persecution.
Immigrants entered Argentina following two main doors the land boundaries
crossed by people from South America and the port of Buenos Aires, entry of
those coming from Europe. The South American flow never stopped, still
continues, thousand of people cross the borders every month. The largest
groups come from Bolivia, Paraguay and Peru. There are large communities
from Chile, Uruguay and in a lesser degree from Brazil, Dominican Republic,
etc.
The Europeans continued to immigrate till 1955. It is interesting to notice
that most of the immigrants that arrived after WW2 were highly educated
coming from Northern Italy, Germany, Yugoslavia and other countries.
More recently the immigrants originate in Taiwan, Korea, Eastern Europe,
Ukraine and Russia. The majority are highly educated as well or dedicate
themselves to commercial activities. Also from Western Europe and the USA,
coming due to their occupation in the global economy.
Argentina considers itself to be blessed to receive and have the chance to
embrace as brothers all the people of the world that honor the country by
coming.
They are a continuous source of energy and contributions at all levels of
activity and studies.
The Italians have made the biggest contribution to the creation and
development of the Argentine Tango.
The trios ( bands formed by three musicians) were usually southern Italians.
Santo Discepolo, father of Enrique Santos and Armando, arrived in 1872, he
was director of the Municipal and Police bands, he also wrote several
tangos.
Sons of Italians were Vicente Greco, Pascual Contursi, Alfredo Bevilacqua,
Ernesto Ponzio, Augusto Berto, Roberto Firpo, Alberto Spatola, Juan Maglio,
Samuel Castriota, Arturo de Bassi, Francisco Lomuto, Francisco Canaro,
Sebastian Piana and the brothers Francisco and Julio de Caro.
Born in Italy were among many others, Modesto Papavero,(wrote Leguisamo
solo), the singers, Alberto Marino (Verona), Alberto Moran (Streve), teh
Poet Julian Centeya author of "La vi llegar", and several tango books
(Parma).
My maternal grand parents came from Gent, Belgium, my paternal grand parents
came from Florence Italy. I feel very proud.
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:58:56 -0700
From: Deborah Holm <deborah.holm @PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Finally, reality.
I think the people who monitor this list must be incredibly
wonderful people. Can you imagine?
I was hoping to get off for free and just sit back and watch
for awhile, BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Jason Laughlin and Lois Donnay need some answers from
me.
When women constantly post to the list about their problems
with not being asked to dance in a milonga where there are
too many women, it is found out that many of these women
do not go to classes or workshops. I have received emails
from women who do go to classes and workshops and confirm
to me that they make the friends who will ask them to dance at
the milongas when they go to classes and workshops.
Sorry, a little bit of effort goes a long ways.
I guess the men really do put the effort in, but the women don't.
I guess the women just show up for the milongas and EXPECT.
Apparently they expect alot. Apparently, they expect everything.
In fact, when they go to Buenos Aires, they also expect sex
and this has led to an evolution about the attitudes of men in
Latin America about these women. WHATEVER!
Like I said, I guess the men do put the effort in.
Problem is, the kind of men working their butts off to learn
this social dance of Argentine Tango are the kind of guys
that these women don't want to dance with.
What do you make of that?
Deborah
B.A. Tango
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:48:58 -0500
From: mlips <mlips @PANGEA.CA>
Subject: Re: women in classes
I have been very interested in this new thread starting re: women in
classes.
We are a relatively young tango community, but here also the men seem to
greatly outnumber the women. The women who do begin classes attend very
sporadically, and are not nearly as dedicated as the men. As a result, I can
honestly say that few of them improve in their following techniques. They
also do not attend regular practicas, but do come to the Milongas and want
to dance.
We have unsuccessfully tried a number of things and to this point, the men
have been very good at acting as followers. However, i think they are
finally getting a little discouraged as it is difficult to lead ladies that
cannot follow.
We are now in the process of setting up a follower's class and are really
encouraging the ladies to attend. I would appreciate hearing about ideas
other communities have tried that have similar problems.
Marie
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:45:05 -0700
From: Deborah Holm <deborah.holm @PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: My take on everything.
If the people that monitor the Tango-L choose to not post my
message, I am totally in agreement.
In the past few weeks I have read everything that has been
posted on the list.
I am a female. I live in San Francisco, California, in North
America.
Since the beginning of my involvement in Argentine Tango
(where I was brought to the big annual Tango By The Bay
ball here) I have always had the greatest respect for this
community-based dance (art) form.
I went to Buenos Aires last year. Not alone, but with a woman
who is my friend in this endeavor of being involved in Argentine
Tango. In preparation for this trip I said to my friend that Argentina
is not a country that is adjacent to the border of the USA,
like Mexico. I told my friend that we were looking at a country
far away, a country with a history of a revolving door of
dictatorships . ("Mean" to the people being an
understatement.)
We went to Buenos Aires not knowing what was going to happen
to us, but we had an incredible time regardless. We were two single
women travelling alone abroad. We knew that we had to be careful
(as two women travelling alone.) We ended up having a very safe and
wonderful experience.
Deborah
B.A. Tangoi
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:23:03 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Practice, practice
Greetings,
Although one would think that it would sink in by now it obviously doesn't.
As was brought up in a recent post, many women complain about not being asked
to dance but yet will not go to practices. It is practically redundant by now
but if you don't practice you will not improve and those that practice the
most will improve. Too many people underestimate how difficult tango is,
especially the walking, because when it is done well it looks easy. It takes
months, if not years, to refine your walking and execution of steps, not a
few days. But if you practice you will improve day by day. Tango is not about
steps, it is about how you move through those steps. There are plenty of
lousy dancers who know many steps.
Don't be impatient about dancing, be disciplined and focused. Everybody wants
to dance tango but nobody wants to put in the effort to learn it well. As an
instructor I will ask beginners and recent dancers to dance but will not
continue if they don't improve and you will improve if you practice. So don't
blame us guys for not asking you to dance. And the crazy part is that most
practices are free. You pay for the classes and you pay for the dances but
don't attend the free practices. Go figure. If it were that easy it wouldn't
be such a beautiful dance. This goes equally as well for the leaders. Women
are not going to want to dance with you if you don't improve.
Classes only introduce you to the form, you have to teach yourself how to do
it well.
Cheers,
Charles
End of TANGO-L Digest - 22 Jun 2000 to 23 Jun 2000 (#2000-171)
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