The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 10 Jun 2000
to 11 Jun 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 03:00:23 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 10 Jun 2000 to 11 Jun 2000 (#2000-159)
There are 4 messages totalling 219 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Growing tango crystals
2. 8CBwDBSThe dreaded backstep
3. Of feet, hearts and bodies, (was Growing tango crystals) (2)
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Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:39:37 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Growing tango crystals
Have you ever watched a toddler respond to the sound of music or just a
simple rhythm like the beat of a drum? His movement is natural and
uninhibited; no one told him how to move. The problem starts when a child
has no opportunity for creative movement before the age of 12 when he
begins to feel awkward in his body. He/she grows up and wants to dance in a
social setting, but has the same inhibitions. Then as adults we go to dance
classes to learn movement because we are out of touch with our bodies.
We think there is only one way to dance tango, swing, etc. Standards have
been established to judge. But who judges the judges?
In the ballroom world, especially international style, everyone is trained
to look exactly the same.
In the tango world of BsAs, no two milongueros dance the same way.
Dance is an individual expression of feeling in time and space.
It's impossible to teach one to feel tango. It only comes after years of
knowing the music.
Ones first tango lessons should be in front of a stereo listening to music
instead of in a dance studio learning steps. One can only dance when one
really knows the music well. Listen to the music for hours on end, at home,
in the car, etc. When you know the music, you're ready to get moving. The
music will tell you what to do.
I've seen so many teachers give classes without playing music. And then if
they did play it, it didn't make any difference which orchestra because they
didn't bother to demonstrate how a particular step would fit the music. So
few teachers can dance to the music anyway.
Always be a first-rate version of yourself,
instead of a second-rate version of somebody else.
----- Judy Garland
Always dance the tango you feel,
instead of steps by somebody else.
------Pichi
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:14:55 EDT
From: Bill Seaman <Billtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: 8CBwDBSThe dreaded backstep
The dreaded backstep has been criticized way out of proportion. IMHO
there is a very simple device that any leader may employ to minimize, if not
eliminate any objection to this move. I am simply referring to TURNS. We all
employ them. If the 8CB is intended, simply precede it by a turn so that the
"back step" falls along the LOD and there you are: you're dancing
beautifully, your partner enjoys, you are not a menace and you create no
enemies!
Tango on.
Bill Seaman
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:02:03 +0100
From: white95r <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Of feet, hearts and bodies, (was Growing tango crystals)
> Have you ever watched a toddler respond to the sound of music or just a
> simple rhythm like the beat of a drum? His movement is natural and
> uninhibited; no one told him how to move.
Yes, I have watched toddlers and infants move to music (inside and outside
of them). Sure they are uninhibited and natural. They are also jerky
uncoordinated and uncontrolled. Toddlers and infants have greatly
undeveloped motor skills. The act of standing for the first time and taking
a few steps before falling on his/her butt are milestones in their
development. Those people who move like toddlers when first attempting to
learn tango are the beginners.
>snip
> He/she grows up and wants to dance in a
> social setting, but has the same inhibitions. Then as adults we go to
dance
> classes to learn movement because we are out of touch with our bodies.
Not really, we are not out of touch with our bodies. We just want to learn
new skills. People are not born knowing how to dance anymore than they are
born knowing how to perform in the martial arts.
> We think there is only one way to dance tango, swing, etc. Standards have
> been established to judge. But who judges the judges?
Very sagacious observation. I've been posting for years about this subject.
Just who is anyone who sets themselves as judges of *true* tango? Some say
that only those who schew steps and dance *from the heart* (whatever that
might mean) dance true tango. Others say that only *milongueros* (however
one defines a milonguero) dance true tango. I've heard that only in a close
embrace with the woman hanging on the man can one experience *true tango*.
Some say cheek to cheek, others say looking over the shoulder, etc.
I do know however who judges the judges. The best and most well known
dancers have opinions about who dances well and who does not. Curiously, the
vast majority say that almost everybody is right and even opposite teachings
are correct as tango is just too big to be easily circumscribed. I actually
know only a couple of *teachers* who claim to be the only *true tango*
experts. Funny thing, they can only dance in their particular *style*.
> Dance is an individual expression of feeling in time and space.
> It's impossible to teach one to feel tango. It only comes after years of
> knowing the music.
Again another astute observation. I've thought the same way for some time.
This is also a common belief among the masters.
> Ones first tango lessons should be in front of a stereo listening to music
> instead of in a dance studio learning steps. One can only dance when one
> really knows the music well. Listen to the music for hours on end, at
home,
> in the car, etc. When you know the music, you're ready to get moving.
The
> music will tell you what to do.
Yeah, right, if every American wanting to learn tango was fist sat in front
of a speaker and made to listen to Darienzo (or Di Sarli, Tanturi, etc.) for
an hour or two, one would end up with exactly zero students. Ideally, this
is correct but practically it cannot be done accross cultural barriers. I
was listening to tango since I could remember and only stopped when I came
to the USA until I became involved in tango again and learned to dance it
well. I love the music and lyrics of tango, I was born into a culture that
valued and loved tango, I did not just learn to speak Spanish a few years
ago and adopted the tango. Very few people who did not grow up with tango
can appreciate and love the music and lyrics without a *learning process*.
People get hooked with tango by watching it danced. It is only natural that
they want to learn this dance. The music to most of them is incidental. The
teacher must adapt to these conditions and teach what the students can
learn.
> I've seen so many teachers give classes without playing music. And then
if
> they did play it, it didn't make any difference which orchestra because
they
> didn't bother to demonstrate how a particular step would fit the music.
So
> few teachers can dance to the music anyway.
It is unfortunate that people have experiences like this. I've had the good
fortune of taking classes from teachers who stressed the musicality of the
dance. I've never had a teacher (of argentine tango) who could not move to
the music, some better than others but all danced to the music. They all did
however at some point taught without the music playing, if for no other
reason to allow the students to listen to their words and watch their
teachings without distraction.
IMHO, this idea that dancing is natural and intuitive is missleading at
best. This only applies to spontaneous, simple movements that are not
coordinated with another person. Usually what you see in rock concerts, etc.
It is dancing by definition I guess but hardly qualifies as dance in the
framework of couple dances like Argentine tango. Another thing is that very
few people are naturally coordinated and have control of their bodies to
move in a manner pleasing to the eye of the beholder. Even such as these
have their hands full when they begin to learn tango ;)
There are no short cuts, there are no panaceas. Tango is difficult to learn
specially to dance it well. It is imperative to hear and heed the music and
extremely desireable to actually understand and feel the lyrics as well.
Learning to dance tango requires patience and perseverance as well as a good
teacher. Take lessons, practice your tango. Whatever you do, go to milongas
and dance! Listen to the music, if you cannot understand the lyrics, listen
to instrumental tangos and focus in the melody as well as in the rhythm.
Don't be afraid that you must somehow learn *heart*, or *feeling*. All these
things are inside of all of us already, the trick is to learn to express
them through an especific and particular way of moving through space and
time *with* another person. Learn the embrace, learn to stablish a
connection with another person, learn to move (lead and follow) as your
teacher suggests. Soon you'll find yourself expressing your *heart* and
"feelings" in a most "tanguera" way.
Musical tangos to all,
Manuel
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:14:10 MST
From: Judy Margolis <tangomas @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Of feet, hearts and bodies, (was Growing tango crystals)
Manuel
Very well expressed. I do however have two comments. I can only really
speak from my, a male, perspective. I believe that, for me, there is one
supreme judge of my tango. That is the woman with whom I am dancing. When
I dance, my partner is everything! I concentrate on the music, the dance
floor (others on the floor) and most of all my partner. I believe that if
my partner wants to dance with me again then I am doing something right. I
of course dance differently with each and every woman I dance with. I try
to fit her style, her balance, her comfort level, and then I must admit on
the second or third dance I start to push the envelope ever so gently. Some
women want to be on the body, some off. Some like milonguero and can't do a
molinete to save their life and others can't wait to take a man around
multiple enrosques. The point is, for me it's the woman who counts and she
is my judge and jury. Also, as far as the music is concerned, I have found
that if you do not love the music, you will find it difficult to stay with
the dance long enough to become proficient with the dance.
Jon y Judy
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 10 Jun 2000 to 11 Jun 2000 (#2000-159)
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