The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 9 Jun 2000
to 10 Jun 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:00:41 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 9 Jun 2000 to 10 Jun 2000 (#2000-158)
There are 9 messages totalling 465 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Growing Tango Crystals/deadD8CB
2. Nice lines men tell women at the milongas
3. El Tanguata announces new web site
4. El Choclo (2)
5. Growing Tango Crystals (2)
6. translation
7. Desde el alma - pensando en Rodolfo
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:31:52 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Growing Tango Crystals/deadD8CB
Tom Stermitz wrote:
>
> Not to flog a dead horse,...
>
> The discussion on the 8CB w/DBS raised important issues about
> teaching methodologies, but it also missed some. I raised the
> following questions, hoping to trigger some creative thinking:
>
Since the horse is already dead, I suppose there is no harm
in flogging it some more:
I am curious whether 8CB can lead to clockwise movement.
Any slight pull from the follower, who is to the right, would
tend to turn the figure clockwise. And this would be exaggerated
with 8CB because there are almost more than two steps to the front
and one to the back -- could this be one reason if
norteamericanos have an irresistable urge to move in the
clockwise direction?
And should the dreaded back step be really dreaded--
if, as some claim, 8CB is an academic figure why not ask the
students to execute the back step just symbolically?
I can imagine that on the initiation day, the instructor
standing in the middle of a big circle of dutiful new inductees, after
an inspiring preface, raising his arm(with its magnetic property of
swinging in the direction of the prettiest girl with longest limbs
as soon it is set in horizontal--to help him demonstrate the figure)
and then to the beat of the just started CD/tape recorder, taking a
quick step to the side and fornt and front....and finally a long
elegant back step. Of course, when no one else is dancing and all
eyes are glued on you and there is enormous space and people
are going to move back even if in your way, why not?
Sure enough, the students after this inspiring demo are going to
grab the nearest girl and are going to take the same long and
elegant step back and not stop until they here an 'ouch' from
behind to mark the end of it?
rajan.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:07:02 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Nice lines men tell women at the milongas
The June issue of B.A. Tango has a new supplement TIM.BOS.
" Nice lines men tell women at the milongas" were reproduced from
B.A.TANGO - Buenos Aires Tango - A magazine very useful for visitors to
Buenos Aires. It has a schedule of many instructors and milongas posted in
several languages.
Si quiere ganarse dos entradas para una milonga envie las frases mas lindas
de las que se dicen en la milonga a "TIM.BOS: abatango @yahoo.com Si la
publicamos le regalamos dos entradas para ir a bailar. No se olvide de
agregar un telefono o direccion.
If you wish to win two free entry tickets to a milonga in Bs.As.please send
the nicest lines that you heard at the milonga to TIM.BOS:
abatango @yahoo.com - If we publish your lines we will send two tickets.
Please include your address and telephone.
Some other examples:
"Los sabados, en general, no salgo porque me quedo a cuidar a una tia
viejita."
Saturdays I do not go out because I stay home to care for an elderly aunt I
have.
"No tendria que confesartelo pero cuando estoy en otros bailes y escucho a
Calo, siempre me acuerdo de vos."
I should not confess this to you but when I am at other milongas and Calo is
played, I always remember you.
I have no economical interest in this publication. This notes were sent to
me by Janice Kenyon.
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:36:51 -0700
From: Raul Martinez <raulm23 @PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: El Tanguata announces new web site
Janis,
The magazine is called El Tangauta.
Raul Martinez
Janis Kenyon wrote:
> El Tanguata is one of the two tango magazines published monthly and
> distributed free of charge in the milongas in Buenos Aires.
> Janis (Pichi) Kenyon
>
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:10:03 -0700
From: ramiro garcia <ramiro9 @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: El Choclo
Dario,
--- Dario Mendiguren <C21DARI @AOL.COM> wrote:
> Dear Tango friends:
>
> Could anybody tell me why the famous tango "El Choclo" (music
> from Miguel
> Angel Villoldo, words from Enrique Santos Discepolo) was named
> that way?
>
> Thank you Dario
Alberto Paz (aka. 'Tangoman') spells this out on his web page:
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/elchoclo.htm
Here's a quote from it:
A Tango by another name...
On November 3, 1905, the upper class clientele of the exclusive
Restaurante Americano gathered as ususal at the to listen to
pianist Jose Luis Rocallo and his classical orchestra play. A
few days earlier, Angel Villoldo had shown to Roncallo the
melody of
a Tango he had just composed. It was by far the best Villoldo
had written but Roncallo fretted at the idea of playing a Tango
for
the "creme-de-la creme" of Buenos Aires society dining at the
Restaurante Americano.
Yet, the sound of the unnamed tune was so compelling that
Roncallo decided to sneak it by disguised as a "danza criolla",
a Creole
dance. And so, he did on that balmy evening of November 3, 1905.
The name had been decided by Villoldo, who named it El
choclo, the ear of corn, because "I loved it from the very first
note, and for me the ear of corn is the tastiest ingredient of
the
'puchero', a meat and vegetables stew ..."
An appropriate name for an undercover Tango being premiere at a
restaurant.
---
ramiro
=====
ramiro garcia
ramiro9 @yahoo.com
---
Men are qualified for civil liberties, in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their appetites: in proportion
as their love of justice is above their rapacity.
- Edmund Burke
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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:22:15 PDT
From: Robert Hink <rhink2 @NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Re: Growing Tango Crystals
Hola Subscribers,
I find this thread to be particularly interesting (, Tom,)
because it touches on a fundamental duality that seems to
exist everywhere people interact. In political terms it's
known as conservatives versus liberals. Some cognitive psychologists
to it as left-brain versus right-brain cognition. Tom Stermitz
uses the terms "Analytical" vesus "Intuitive". Primarily this
duality amounts to trying to preserve structure/maintain order
as opposed to trying to challenge structure/create new order.
Ironically in tango, and the performing arts world in general, the two
polar opposites are essential.
Let me use my own metaphor to try to explain what I mean. To
me dancing with a partner is akin to having a conversation. The dance
is the language, and dancing is the dialogue. To learn a language, one
must learn the grammar and vocabulary. This is "analytic". Indeed,
learning "the basic" does not necessarily mean learning something
simple; it means learning something from which everything else in the
language is derived.
No let's say our dancers have mastered their grammar and vocabulary.
How do they use their new language? They could repeat cliche phrases
(i.e. standard figures), or they could try to create new phrases (i.e.
be improvisational or "intuitive"). Tango will accommodate either
approach; that is one of the cool, if not the coolest, things about
tango.
OK, why are the two opposites essential? People who prefer the former,
analytic approach define the scope of the dance. Without them everyone
would be babbling gibberish. They are the ones who make it possible
for two people who have never met before to dance a tango together.
People who prefer the latter approach keep the dance alive and vital.
Without them the dance would atrophy from tedium and finally die from
disuse. Returning to the language metaphor, how would one say
"website" in Latin, for example?
So in my opinion whichever approach to tango you prefer, know that
you and your partner, who may prefer the opposite approach, are =
contributing to the health of this beautiful dance.
Bob Hink
B.A. Tango =
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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:17:08 -0700
From: John Trimble <john.trimble @EXCITE.COM>
Subject: Re: El Choclo
Deborah,
What could be more tragic than death by alternate reading? I fear your
safety and success if you base future romantic expectations upon any given
reading of the ambiguous lyrics of "El Choclo".
For my own positiion, I hope that you may not be unfaithful to yourself
before all others, and whether you are faithful in love or not, I hope that
you will not be killed, regardless of your interpetation of "El Choclo".
From my own experience I know many unfaithful people of both sexes who have
lived long and healthy lives, and though I count myself fortunate to have
many friends and acquaintances, I do not personally know anyone who has
killed someone for being unfaithful, and that includes numerous Argentinians
of both sexes.
The gods or goddesses of tango seem satifsfied so long as someone dies for
love. Sexual politics, personal politics, vengeance, and justice are
variations on a theme.
To know what to expect is to anticipate, and to anticipate, as we all
should know by now, is to spoil the dance. Both romantic expectations and
cynical ones complicate love which, it might be said, like tango dancing,
works best when taken one step at a time, maintaining one's own axis and
improvising as one goes.
To take a moral lesson from the song, is it not enough to know that to love
is to be made vulnerable to loss of love, even betrayal, whether you are
partner, spouse, lover, or hopeful? To live is to exist in the shadow of
death, whether you are a man or a woman. To dance to the music is to be
subject to silence or the piteous immobility of solitude within a crowd of
partnered dancers, whether you are a leader or a follower.
Only in your own heart might you be able to rank your lover above or below
your socially official partner. Perhaps both are true loves, perhaps
neither. By loving the one passionately, you could be overwhelmed with
remorseless desire for death of the other. Or maybe all tangoesque quarrels
to the death incite your feelings of complicity and remorse, even if you
have loved neither the victim nor the murderer/executioner.
Finally, might I suggest that issuing a questionaire or lie detector test to
prospective partners and/or lovers might be more expedient than polling
tango-l to know what to expect if you are unfaithful. Just to get things
started, I offer the following questions for inclusion.
Are you
a)female
b)male
c)depends on the situation
If your lover were unfaithful, would you
a)knife them to death
b)knife their lover(s) to death
c)ask someone else to coffee
d)knife yourself to death
e)all of the above
John
On Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:22:40 -0700, Deborah Holm wrote:
> I wish it was clear whether:
>
> The man killed his woman's lover; or
>
> The man killed his woman because she had a lover.
>
> This is interesting to me because I am a woman and
> I would like to know what to expect.
>
> If I am to be killed because I am unfaithful to a man,
> then I need to know that.
>
> And, of course, I would be stricken with remorse if
> "my" man killed my lover, because my lover would
> be more important to me than "my" man. Right?
>
> Please..... Explain....
> Deborah
> B.A. Tango
john.trimble @excite.com
or backup john_trimble @hotmail.com
My web page has social dance venues in Dallas
http://home.switchboard.com/dancewithme
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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:25:06 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22LIGER_Michel=2C_CETE_M=E9diterr=2E/DIT=22?=
<michel.liger @EQUIPEMENT.GOUV.FR>
Subject: Re: Growing Tango Crystals
Hi everybody
Manuel has put forward things I feel in accordance with:
>Lets face it, if just teaching movement is
>so difficult, how is one to teach *heart*? Excuse me, but either you have
it
>or you don't. And even if one has *heart*, it does not mean that one cannot
>express it thru a dance like tango without knowledge of how to dance! I've
>personally experienced (before I learned to dance) tremendous frustration
>when listening to very moving music like tango or tropical music (or swing)
>and wanting to dance to it but not knowing how
However I can give you a funny example of non-frustration in this situation.
A friend of mine who loves Argentine Tango use to dance it (in non-tango
parties) with stage-like figures ; he is kind of a storm devastating the
floor and we better monitor his trajectory to escape from it. Women have the
highest difficulties in following his wild and unpredictable movements but
apparently seem to appreciate the adventure.
He tried once to learn tango but gave it up rapidly, preferring his own
undisciplined and hearted dance. :-)
I agree Manuel that you can't teach *heart*. But what you can do is to help
people to learn that tango is a matter of heart first (an aspect that can be
hidden behind the technical sophistication) and then to develop their
*heart*.
For instance in my first contacts with the tango the teacher, an Argentine
female, asked us, the beginners, to walk, alone, to the music, just with
normal steps in any direction and with frequent stops (no more than 3-4
steps each time). We had to to dance the melody. With so simple and free
steps there was no technical difficulty to do so.
She felt the tango quite strongly and let us experiment the feeling,
postponing a bit the technical learning. I had to stop tango for years but I
always remembered the feeling while I forgot the steps.
Michel Liger
Aix en Provence, France
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:56:34 -0700
From: Karima Cammell <karima @DROMEDARYPRESS.COM>
Subject: translation
Dear List Members,
I just stumbled upon a website which I thought might be useful for some
of us tango lovers but non tango speakers. It is a translation site
which can convert from english to spanish and back...(it also does
french, german and a few other languages). It will even translate
entire web pages if you type in the url. I am sure that the grammar
sticklers out there won't be too pleased but the rest of us might find
it useful for getting a vague idea. I probably wouldn't trust it to
reveal subtle interpretations of "Milonga Triste" but it might do for
liner notes or online cd reviews. To be honest I've tested it with
mixed results. (Needless to say, I'm not dropping my spanish lessons
anytime soon.)
you can find it at http://translator.go.com/
With best wishes,
Karima
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:50:59 +1200
From: Alex White <amwtango @PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject: Desde el alma - pensando en Rodolfo
Dear Tangueros,
One thing which I feel made Rodolfo & Maria not only fantastic dancers,
but awesome teachers was the personal touch of enjoyment and love they
expressed. & of course highlighted by Rodolfo's great big smile -
I took various classes from these great teachers who I thank "desde el
alma" for their kindness, humour, and for being the teachers who showed
me the style "Canyengue" while I was at CITA-99 & recently CITA-2000.
"Tango is life - everything else is just a dance"
Alex White
Viva Latina Dance Company
E-mail: alex_tangofirulete @yahoo.com
Website: http://come.to/tango_firulete
Ph: +(64 4) 970 - 8532
Mobile: 021 254 3891
* Resident DJ FRESCO *
@ CLUB FIESTA
Cnr Tory & Vivian Sts
Wellington, New Zealand
Latin Dance Party every Thurs / Fri / Sat
End of TANGO-L Digest - 9 Jun 2000 to 10 Jun 2000 (#2000-158)
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