The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 30 Jan 2000
to 31 Jan 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 03:00:02 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 30 Jan 2000 to 31 Jan 2000 (#2000-30)
There are 8 messages totalling 357 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Dancing to Live Music (2)
2. On "tango etiquette", eye contact and more... (2)
3. "Assassination Tango" by Robert Duvall
4. Music which becomes alive in musician's hearts!
5. Women asking men to dance
6. The joy of dancing to live music
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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:33:08 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing to Live Music
Original Message-----
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @csn.net>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 10:09 PM
>
>Piazzolla is moody and dynamic in a way you don't find in the dance
>music of the 1930s & 1940s.
Piazzola is supposed to have played in the Annibal Trolio orchestra
before
starting out on his own? I feel there is at least as much energy in
Trolio as
in Piazzola himself(if not more in some instances).
>With Piazzolla and to an extent with Pugliese there is a tendency to
For me, it is hard to distinguish between the two without some clue.
rajan.
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:45:21 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing to Live Music
Original Message-----
From: Inger-Johanne Bauer <jbauer @online.no>
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 12:44 AM
>I have made an observation which upsets me a bit, and I would like to
>know if this is something particular for Norway, where I live, or if
>this happens elsewhere.
>
Only reassuring factor perhaps is that this happens elsewhere
also..and across the atalantic as well.
>Now, here is the problem: I have noticed that when the orchestra
>finishes a piece, many of the dancers (and some of the seated audience)
>forget to applaude the musicians and just stand around chatting and
>waiting for more music. I know it is not because they do not appreciate
>the music, but it may be that we are so used to dance to recordings
that
>we forget where we are. But I find this incredibly rude to the
>performing artists!
Months ago, I went to a tango promotional event where there was
live music and accompanying dance by the organizers. Music was
wonderful. At the end of the a couple of hours of dancing, all of the
dancers came on stage, and were introduced bowed to the audience
and took-in the applause with great pride and big smiles. The muscians
were not even introduced or acknowledged. I could see that while
they were they thoroughly enojoying while playing they looked almost
stunned and dismayed when they were not even acknowledged at
the end...it was truly awful!
rajan.
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:52:47 +0100
From: Dan Wajnman <dwajn @IMAGE.DK>
Subject: On "tango etiquette", eye contact and more...
On "tango etiquette", eye contact and more...
Girls, don't just sit there, ask the men to dance!
Why the hell shouldn't you? Why sit and wait when they are having all =
the fun of picking and choosing and dancing their legs off? What compels =
you to adopt such a medieval behavior?=20
If you feel that you are bound by tradition, you cannot be, because the =
culture of social dance is largely dead and forgotten. Men lost the =
social graces which once compelled them to dance with everybody. Of =
course, they should anyway, at least with most women whom they meet =
repeatedly at milongas, fellow club members, casual friends. But they =
are such idiots, why waste energy on educating them? =20
I followed the recent discussion here on this subject. Not only were =
there men who did not feel obliged to dance with most of the women =
present, that was to be expected. But there was one lady, who would not =
accept male pity, she would only dance with men who really appreciated =
her. This is, I think, a major misunderstanding. Remember, men are =
hopeless idiots. The likely reason that they do not ask you to dance is =
that they are shy, or they may think you are too good a dancer or just =
too attractive.
And in the unlikely situation that you might not be the very first =
choice - who cares- if you were, they would ask you to marry them, or to =
elope, or to be allowed to die for you, and you may not be interested in =
any of that anyway.=20
Today, all that remains of the social dance tradition is that women wait =
to be asked. Not a fair deal. =20
Even here in Copenhagen, where women boast of certain degree of =
emancipation, this situation prevails.=20
How do you ask a man to dance? Tell him: " I noticed you dance so =
well..." (meaning he is not necessarily that hot and you do not really =
want to marry him right away.) And flattery will get you everywhere. =
Better still, if he is in the company of a lady, ask her permission, =
(giving the above reasons), this way you do not need to speak to the =
silly fellow at all.=20
And maybe best of all, girls, speak among yourselves and delegate the =
bravest (and, for tactical reasons, the prettiest) of you to address the =
crowd and inform them how things are going to be.
After all, the year is 2000, not 1930, the place a friendly milonga club =
and not a singles' bar, and the music is playing.
For those of you who prefer the Argentinean "eye catching" techniques, =
with "scanning the crowd" and other unnecessary hardships, fine with me. =
Just remember, girls, in such a game you are at a disadvantage.=20
And men, when a woman asks you to dance, do not ever, ever dare to =
refuse her. If you are afraid that your superior tango skills are being =
wasted on an inferior dancer, squeeze her respectfully just a little and =
enjoy it. If that does not work for you, go see a shrink.
Girls, please don't just sit around, do something, will you?=20
Dan Wajnman
Copenhagen, Denmark
dwajn @image.dk
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:51:56 -0500
From: Eugenia Spitkovsky <euginas @EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: On "tango etiquette", eye contact and more...
Dear Dan,
How nice of you to post this. Although I do not think men are"idiots", I
know that many are simply shy. But somehow the same men get invited by
many women all the time. Women want to dance with good dancers, just
like men do... There is only one way to get there: practice, practice,
practice! And look inside yourself to learn that you can be a great
dancer. We all were beginners and depending who we compare ourselves to,
still are... I found that all tangueros are helpful to each other unless
someone becomes too demanding for another's skills. We go dancing to
enjoy ourselves, beginners or not, men or women. The right to have a
good time at a milonga should be respected by all: men and women. Invite
a partner, sex matters none, but think of your partner's desires and
needs too.
Eugenia
Dan Wajnman wrote:
>
> On "tango etiquette", eye contact and more...
>
> Girls, don't just sit there, ask the men to dance!
> Why the hell shouldn't you? Why sit and wait when they are having all the fun of picking and choosing and dancing their legs off? What compels
you to adopt su
>
> If you feel that you are bound by tradition, you cannot be, because the culture of social dance is largely dead and forgotten. Men lost the
social graces whic
>
> I followed the recent discussion here on this subject. Not only were there men who did not feel obliged to dance with most of the women
present, that was to b
> And in the unlikely situation that you might not be the very first choice - who cares- if you were, they would ask you to marry them, or to
elope, or to be all
>
> Today, all that remains of the social dance tradition is that women wait to be asked. Not a fair deal.
> Even here in Copenhagen, where women boast of certain degree of emancipation, this situation prevails.
>
> How do you ask a man to dance? Tell him: " I noticed you dance so well..." (meaning he is not necessarily that hot and you do not really
want to marry him righ
>
> And maybe best of all, girls, speak among yourselves and delegate the bravest (and, for tactical reasons, the prettiest) of you to address the
crowd and inform
> After all, the year is 2000, not 1930, the place a friendly milonga club and not a singles' bar, and the music is playing.
>
> For those of you who prefer the Argentinean "eye catching" techniques, with "scanning the crowd" and other unnecessary hardships, fine with me.
Just remember,
> And men, when a woman asks you to dance, do not ever, ever dare to refuse her. If you are afraid that your superior tango skills are being
wasted on an inferi
>
> Girls, please don't just sit around, do something, will you?
>
> Dan Wajnman
> Copenhagen, Denmark
>
> dwajn @image.dk
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:57:23 +0100
From: Helaine Treitman <treitman @GIOTTO.ORG>
Subject: Re: "Assassination Tango" by Robert Duvall
On Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:56 PM, Jorge Navarro [SMTP:jorge @XMAIL.COM]
wrote:
. . . No, I'm not going to reprint this nasty remarks.
Isn't there a moderator on this list?
I could enjoy the jokes about dramas in the Miami tango world, but I cannot
take this outright slandering of a friend I care about and respect. Jorge Nel
Giraldo is the person who has done the most for the growth of tango in Miami,
and I'm sure the other tango community leaders in Miami will agree that it was
Jorge who laid the foundation that everyone is building on now. There are many
people in South Florida like me who are still grateful to Jorge for having
given them their start in Tango.
Jorge's short hair is his own, and his dancing in the milonga is the real
thing; for me, a dance with Jorge is often the cherry on the cake of a great
tango evening.
His new line of shoes looks beautiful on the dance floor. (I saw a pair of
Robin Tara's recently, lovely indeed, and I'm glad we finally have various
resources for tango shoes.) I bought a very inexpensive pair from Jorge 4
years ago, danced in them constantly until the soles started wearing through,
had new leather soles put on, danced in them till the uppers stretched out,
then two months ago took them to a shoemaker in Rome to use the old heels to
build a new, custom-made pair for $200.
I don't have time for this, but I cannot tolerate this kind of destructive
post.
Helaine
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:09:12 +0900
From: Sang Hyeon Chang <chang @BARAM.PHYS.TOHOKU.AC.JP>
Subject: Re: Music which becomes alive in musician's hearts!
I recently read an interview with Juan Carlos Copes about Piazzolla
and Copes. Copes told that actually soon after Piazzolla got back
from Paris and mode his "New Tango", Piazzolla joined with Copes and
played his new tango for Copes's tango show in late 50's.
And he didn't break Copes' leg for sure. :)
In Copes' interview, when Copes met Piazzolla for the last time,
Copes was stanging Maria de BsAs by Piazzolla in Brazil and when
Piazzolla was saying goodbye to Copes he told Copes
"Who said Piazzolla is not for dancing?"
You can find this article in
http://www.piazzolla.org/centro/copes.html
There is an old picture which shows a Copes and Piazzolla (both quite
young) on the same stage.
On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Daniel Diaz wrote:
> > Look at Piazzola himself -- I remember reading somewhere that he expressed
> > a desire to break the legs of anyone he saw dancing to his music...
>
> I know how he was in that respect. Once at an Argentine concert/dinner I
> stop a piece short because a couple started dancing. I felt the same way as
> Astor then. I have since repented and enjoy watching people dancing to my
> music at a milonga. I wonder if there are some windows in heaven where Astor
> could peek from. What would his response be when he sees so many people --
> modern, AT and ballet dancers dancing to his music.
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:26:08 -0800
From: Cammie Strange <milonguera @DELLNET.COM>
Subject: Women asking men to dance
Dan Wajnman wrote in part:
"Girls, don't just sit there, ask the men to dance!
Why the hell shouldn't you? Why sit and wait when they are having all the
fun of picking and choosing and dancing their legs off? What compels you to
adopt such a medieval behavior? "
Here in Colorado it is usually acceptable for women to ask men to dance, but
even in this enlightened age, there are still a few men among whom it is not
acceptable. For some, it is the kiss of death to ask them. It is not
necessarily that they don't want to dance with you at all, but for some,
they have to always be in control; for others, they still believe it is the
man who should do the asking. It is okay for them to ask me to dance, but
if I ask them, not only will I be turned down, but they will not ask me the
rest of the night.
Cammie Strange
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:34:50 -0800
From: Cammie Strange <milonguera @DELLNET.COM>
Subject: The joy of dancing to live music
Dear List, I just read the heart-felt comments by Dan Diaz. We have been
extremely fortunate to have regular live music in the Denver metro area.
This was started by Marilyn Megenity, the owner of the wonderful Mercury
Cafe. We have our own local tango group, Extasis, headed by Evan Orman on
bandoneon They play probably twice a month on average. We have also been
very fortunate to have Dan Diaz, from Utah now but originally from
Argentina, sit in with our local musicians about four times in the past 6
months, joined two weekends ago by visiting musicians from Chicago, Kansas
City.
For me, dancing to good live music is incomparible. My first experience
dancing to live tango music was at Stanford Tango Week in 96 and 97, dancing
to the New York Tango Trio. This was an incredibly powerful experience for
me. I had an absolutely wonderful time at Stanford both years, and about a
third of that was due to the wonderful live music.
It is a totally different experience for me, dancing to live music. The
energy is much higher, and there is often a powerful connection between the
musicians and the dancers. I look forward even more to the nights the band
is playing. Also, we almost always have higher turnouts the nights the band
is playing. Yes, we did have to give the local musicians some feedback at
first, like how helpful it is to have clear endings and that tango dancers
stop right on the last note or before, and some of the milongas were way too
slow at first. However, the musicians sought our feedback and were very
receptive. Extasis does tend to play a lot of Piazolla, but I find that the
Piazolla they play is very danceable. (This is not to imply that all
Piazolla music is danceable.)
Dancing to live music may be harder for beginners to dance to, but can also
be an advantage for them in some ways, helping them to have to really listen
to the music, and later, to be able to interpret the music in a deeper way.
Cammie Strange
End of TANGO-L Digest - 30 Jan 2000 to 31 Jan 2000 (#2000-30)
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