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Digest from 27 Jan 2000
to 28 Jan 2000
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 27 Jan 2000 to 28 Jan 2000 (#2000-27)
There are 7 messages totalling 510 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Dancing to Live Music vs CD's of the Great Old Tango Orchestras
2. Tango Documentary/PAL/NTSC
3. Live Music In Denver & Many Thanks For A GREAT Weekend! (2)
4. Escuela Bohemia - Ernesto Carmona & Norma Tomasi in Buenos Aires
5. Fresedo Tango
6. Mr. Tango Shoes
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:29:05 EST
From: Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing to Live Music vs CD's of the Great Old Tango Orchestras
Dear Tango Dancers:
I have found that Laurie's observations are true. I have had the misfortune
of trying to dance to live music where the musicians were not all too
familiar with each other and had just gotten together for the night. They
all had good intentions but what they played was not received well by the
dancers. They really played sub par Tango music and took frequent breaks.
When the recorded music took over during their break there were often more
dancers on the floor than when the live music was being played.
I am not a music expert but I know when I hear good dance music and when it
is not so good. You do not have to be an expert dancer to be an expert music
connoiseur. My tastes my not concur with others but I think that there is
nothing that can compare with some of the super tango music that is on CD;
especially some of the Pugliese Tango CD's.
But.......... there is an assumption that there is a good sound system that
is used to play the CD's. Most of the little hand held portable players are
not adequate for a large ballroom full of Tango Dancers. You need a
reasonably good sound system with proper amplification and good acoustics in
the room.
There is no shortage of good Tango music recorded on CD's. Just see Daniel
Trenner's catalogue. It is all there. CD's galore. Pretty much any thing
you want in abundance. Some of the CD's I purchased in Buenos Aires are
still my favorites. In the USA when you ask the "clerk" in the record store
for good Tango music, you are likely to get almost anything but good
Argentine Tango CD's.
There are some people who feel that any tango music is OK to dance
Argentine Tango to. Don't be misguided. Sometimes good music can inspire
you to do your best dancing. Poor music often breeds poor dancing.
(Sometimes you have to put up with subpar music (if it not within your
control). It is frustrating when you have to compromise and dance to bad
music. One of the pitfalls of learning dancers is that they sometimes
get accustomed to practicing without music. Then, When the music is played
they frequently do not listen carefully to the music and they are not aware
that their dancing is suffering because of the poor music factor or poor
coordination of one's dancing to the music (poor or otherwise). You must get
into the habit of listening to good music. Appreciation of that good music
that you play for your own personal listening pleasure can enhance your
dancing when you hear some lovely Tango music you recognize while out on the
dance floor. When you dance to great live music at a milonga and your
partner is a marvelous dancer......when the dance floor is a beautiful wood
floor and it is not overcrowded......and the lighting is perfect....and you
can dance Tango without worrying too much about all the technical ideas
presented to you in your Tango class.... and your shoes are
comfortable...........and your feet don't hurt........and the
air-conditioning is working perfectly.......and you and your partner are
"dressed to kill"...... and that new dress (suit) you bought fits perfectly
it is a dream come true!!!!! Sometimes when all these things come together
at the same time, in real life, it is truly exhilerating.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMM........I had a dream!
Sincerely,
Arturo
AHGberg @aol.com
West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:37:41 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango Documentary/PAL/NTSC
Original Message-----
From: Anders Nordby <anders.nordby @HIT.NO>
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 11:42 AM
>Charles Roques wrote:
>On Sunday, Jan. 30, 2000, CNBC (for those who have cable service) will
>rebroadcast the Tango documentary made a few years ago and hosted by
Robert
>Duvall. (...)
>
[ stuff deleted ]
>An additional problem is that I would prefer it to be in PAL-format as
I
>live in Norway.
>
I am in the same boat as well. Moments ago, I got educated from a friend
who says that with a multi-system VCR(NTSC, PAL, SECAM which does
*not* cost a whole lot more than just PAL) and SCART(?) connection(21
pin
connection in the back of the VCR) to PAL TV(SCART connection is
standard on most new TVs), I should be able to watch NTSC tapes on a
PAL TV. Has anyone tried this? (I have an ancient TV which does not
have
a SCART connection -- it would be helpful to know before I go and
buy another).
Thanks,
rajan.
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:12:27 -0800
From: Judith Farkas <judith @PARACEL.COM>
Subject: Re: Live Music In Denver & Many Thanks For A GREAT Weekend!
Dear List,
Ruddy and I visited Denver for the Dan Diaz and company weekend. We had a
great time! The music was wonderful - both from a musical and a dance
perspective. The Mercury Cafe is a great Tango venue that I wish we had
in the San Francisco Bay Area. In fact,... Mercury Cafe offers not only
Tango but supports many other dance and music forms as well as poetry
readings and more. Beyond that, the Denver Tango community was extremely
hospitable and warm.
I encourage anyone to visit the Denver Tango community. You 'll have a
great time!
Many thanks to the Mercury Cafe and it's crew, the Denver Tango community
as large and of course, to Marilyn for her support of the Tango community!
Judith
Judith Farkas
Senior Account Manager
Paracel
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134
510.583.6175 Phone
judith @paracel.com
www.paracel.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:57:21 -0600
From: "A. Lester Buck III" <buck @COMPACT.COM>
Subject: Re: Escuela Bohemia - Ernesto Carmona & Norma Tomasi in Buenos Aires
>There are many schools of tango and many styles. In the US we see a
>finite subset of what is available, so if the Carmonas are unique
>and different, it would be most beneficial to hear exactly how,
>and why their method is so good.
With the recent posts about the Carmonas' tango school in Buenos
Aires, I thought I should repost a message I shared with Tango-L
back on Nov 18, 1998, in the middle of a workshop Los Carmona
taught in Houston, Texas.
But first, an update. I visited Buenos Aires twice this year,
and took a number of private lessons from Norma and attended
one group lesson. Ernesto was only there on my second visit
and tight scheduling prevented me taking a lesson with him.
(I took classes from a wide range of instructors. I continue to
make room in my BA schedule for private lessons with Norma.)
>Ernesto and Norma have interesting things to say about the tango
>but I don't feel their's is the most efficient way to learn how
>to become a proficient social tango dancer.
EXACTLY!!! I couldn't say it better myself. There are at least
two paths to anything in life. One is the efficient path, point
A to B, get it down, achieve the goal, be a "proficient" social
tango dancer.
Another path is rather more difficult - understanding why one is
doing this activity in the first place, learning to tap emotional
responses and thought processes that hardly seem related to social
dancing at all. How can such things happen when one is putatively
learning "just a social dance?" For those who did not grow up in
Argentine culture, capturing much of the cultural substrate which
tango expresses is a challenge. Los Carmona can open your eyes
to aspects of Argentine and tango culture that might remain hidden
for years to non-Argentines. If tango represents a new vocabulary
of expression, then a "proficient" tango dancer knows many words,
while a true Tango dancer knows how to say great things, and how to
hear great things said by their partners. Rice Univ. anthropology
professor Julie Taylor's 1998 book "Paper Tangos", dedicated to
the Carmonas' school, discusses these issues in much greater depth.
There has always been an intrinsic tension on Tango-L, where
disembodied symbols on a glowing screen are used to tie together
a community of people who are passionate about a social dance, a
special dance that gives us permission to hug a virtual stranger
for three minutes and more at a time. Email is efficient.
Learning tango is a process, and it is those delightful detours and
newly discovered vistas that make it such an interesting journey.
Mounted on the wall in the Carmonas' school is a sign that
basically announces that the teaching methods used in the school
are registered and not to be used without authorization. (At
least that is what I think it said with my weak Spanish...)
I don't want to give away their methods, but here is another
taste of how they teach.
In one class, we were instructed to do an eight count basic with
our partners. Then we were instructed to do it to the opposite
side. Then we were instructed to do it backwards. (Easier to do
it forward, then immediately reverse.) The obvious fourth option,
other side backwards, was left for practice outside of class.
These exercises are serious tests of your leading abilities,
especially if applied in a social dance situation. Then simple
patterns were taken and it was demonstrated that almost everything
we dance in tango could be done to the other side (mirror image)
and/or backwards. Leaders, if you can execute this concept at
will, you now have four times as many "patterns" as you had before.
Another Carmona exercise is to combine, say, a gancho, a secada,
a displacement, and a drag in the minimum number of steps, as
a set little piece of choreography. How many changes of weight
and ochos (and similar "filler" steps) can you shave off?
Or dance your name on the floor. (Yes, this is a loosely specified
problem - that is the point. There are at least several valid
solutions. Extra points for thinking outside the box.)
Or starting with feet together, lead your partner to a cross in
the minimum number of steps. (Are you sure you have the minimum?)
A good portion of what the Carmonas teach I would call "tango
play." But then I like to play while I dance. I often find
myself whispering "jugando" into my partner's ear, so they will
know I am experimenting and not to take mistakes the wrong way.
Some people like to play. Some take tango *very seriously*.
If you like to play while you dance seriously, you will love
Los Carmona.
Best regards,
Lester
--
A. Lester Buck buck @compact.com
==================
Posted to Tango-L on Nov 18, 1998:
In Houston this week, Ernesto & Norma Carmona are conducting nine
days of workshops. The weekends are designed for general mixed
skill students, with ad hoc grouping and merging throughout the
weekend. During the week we have two parallel five day courses,
at an "intermediate" and "advanced" level (as Houston tango
skills currently group). These courses are meeting from 8-10pm
each evening, Monday through Friday. After two nights of Ernesto
teaching this advanced course, I am so enthusiastic I can hardly
keep still. My tango has never been this energized in the 2.5
years we have had regular practices in Houston. Julie Taylor,
author of the recent "Paper Tangos", and George Crauser both
spoke very highly of Los Carmona after separate visits to Buenos
Aires, and together they have organized this workshop. Well,
Los Carmona are much better than we could ever have expected!
Our announcement flyer claims they are "the best kept secret of
Buenos Aires," and this is much more than publicity hype.
Most of my interaction has been with Ernesto, as Norma has worked
with the newer dancers, though they will be switching workshop
sections tomorrow. Here are a few of the events of the past four
days that stick in my memory.
The weekend begins with a mixed group of students. Ernesto spends
the first 45 minutes dancing the follower's role for a few
minutes with each leader before handing that man over to dance
with a woman. This is rather boring for the women, but he later
announces that the men are where the teaching is aimed, and he
can't offer much to the ladies without the men having the basics.
One new leader is looking down too much and being distracted,
so Ernesto *blindfolds* him with his scarf, while backleading
him until he smooths out. Other new leaders are doing a poor job
of keeping their arms in a stable embrace, so they are assigned
to dance holding a square chair at the sides, with a follower
holding up the other end of the chair. This lasts a few minutes
until they understand the concept of a stable embrace.
Ernesto dances with various women. When he detects something
wrong, he freezes their bodies, then, still in the embrace,
disengages his leg and foot and repositions their foot, leg or
whatever to the correct position, then resumes dancing. Once he
felt the woman had her heel off the ground, so he moved his foot
on top and pressed it to the ground. Often he was making these
corrections with his eyes closed. Other times he dances an entire
tango with a single woman, making real time posture corrections,
rotating a pelvis here, aiming the chin up there, until the woman
just comes alive with tango energy.
When Ernesto wants us to dance close, he starts to lecture us
about the philosophy of tango, to feel the dance, to join with
the woman, etc. We start to dance, but no one is comfortable
dancing close, so he goes into his backpack and starts pulling
out the remedies: deoderant, breath mints, talcum powder, ... :-)
With these items sitting out for anyone to use as necessary,
he again challenges the room to dance close. What if the women
resist dancing close? "Then they should not be dancing tango."
And close means complete chest to chest contact, with noses
practically touching, heads turned slightly to the cheek.
We hear about the "cemetary of the dead chicken" - a reference
to men who allow their bellies and pelvis to pivot forward,
instead of keeping themselves aligned.
We hear several times that women should not have caved in chests,
but should show their breasts. At other times, he corrects other
women using their rear end incorrectly. There are also plenty
of references to male genitalia. With Julie Taylor often in a
close embrace as demonstration partner, while also translating,
this leads to some awkward moments and gaps in the translation. At
other times, Ernesto waxes poetic about how to treat the women
and Julie becomes lost in the embrace, forgeting to translate.
I take a private lesson, without a translator. Somehow I
understand virtually everything Ernesto teaches even with my weak
Spanish. (Ernesto speaks fluent Spanish, Italian, and French,
but little English. Norma speaks enough English to teach without
a translator.) Ernesto immediately determines I am dancing on
the beat instead of with the melody, and he helps me begin to
hear the structure of the songs. He also points out that men who
dance on their toes without putting their heels down are thought
to be homosexual in Buenos Aires. I suddenly learn how to put
my heels down.
The first night of the weekday courses, Ernesto watches the
advanced class dance a couple of tangos, then asks each woman to
critique their partner. As partners trade off, these critiques
by the women continue through the next evening. This follows
a principle stated by Ernesto over the weekend: "You can make
a statue dance." The success of the tango is overwhelmingly
dependent on the men, to lead the women.
We are all becoming more comfortable with dancing very close,
feeling the moment. I begin to dance more and more with my eyes
closed, in a close embrace, as there is plenty of space between
couples in the studio room. Last night I was "in the moment"
enough with one partner that we bumped (gently) into two different
walls in one dance...
Ernesto challenges us: If you have never danced a dance where you
lost track of time and space, where you can't remember what steps
you did but it didn't matter, either, where it felt at the end
like you had had an orgasm (sic), then you have never actually
danced a Tango.
The second night we again have the followers critique the leaders
after an initial tango. All dancers form a circle with Ernesto
in the center, and we are directed to walk across the room toward
Ernesto and continue walking by. Ernesto glances at each person,
then looks away while listening intently. Some he catches as
they pass by sticking out an arm, making various corrections.
Often he doesn't bother to turn around and watch them pass, but
listens to the sounds they are making on the floor. He continues
to make corrections without looking. Several men get the comment
"But why don't you walk like that when you are dancing?"
The second night we are doing more close dancing, to rather
avante garde tango music. Ernesto is playing very modern
music, because he loves to promote today's musicians to play new
tango music. (Ernesto brought a number of copies of Tangofuerte
by Miguel de Caro, for example. RealAudio tracks available at
<http://www.abctango.com.ar/decaro/>) I am still mainly leading
with my eyes closed. Good thing I had practiced with eyes closed,
because Ernesto suddenly turned off the lights in the room!
With the music equipment power lights, two doors outlined in
leaking light, and mirrors everywhere, I found myself completely
disoriented but greatly enjoying the dance. After my eyes adjusted
for a few minutes, I could make out general forms of other
couples but no details. Nevertheless, Ernesto was approaching
each couple and making corrections, rearranging a head with one
couple, relaxing a back here, straightening a shoulder there.
I have no idea what else might be coming in the next three nights,
or this coming weekend, but I am sure it will be interesting!
Los Carmona have an established tango school in Buenos Aires, and
Ernesto has been teaching during extended visits to Italy. Norma
was telling me tonight how tango still receives little respect
in Argentina. She holds a formal degree in Argentine folkloric
dance, but there are no formal schools of tango in Argentina.
Only recently has there been a push to establish formal schools
and dipolmas for tango, and the school of Los Carmona might become
the first accredited tango academy in Argentina.
Houston tango would love to hear from other tango groups around
North America who would like to coordinate a teaching tour by
Los Carmona. We certainly want to bring them back again!
Best regards,
Lester
--
A. Lester Buck buck @compact.com
President, Houston Argentine Tango Association
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:43:27 EST
From: Richard deSousa <M1APORT @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Live Music In Denver & Many Thanks For A GREAT Weekend!
May be we (tango community here in the SF bay area) should find a way to
finance the guest appearances of these orchestras from Denver. Being a
relatively new member to the tango community, I've never had the pleasure of
dancing to a live orchestra.
Rich deSousa
In a message dated 1/27/00 7:50:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
judith @PARACEL.COM writes:
<< Dear List,
Ruddy and I visited Denver for the Dan Diaz and company weekend. We had a
great time! The music was wonderful - both from a musical and a dance
perspective. The Mercury Cafe is a great Tango venue that I wish we had
in the San Francisco Bay Area. In fact,... Mercury Cafe offers not only
Tango but supports many other dance and music forms as well as poetry
readings and more. Beyond that, the Denver Tango community was extremely
hospitable and warm.
I encourage anyone to visit the Denver Tango community. You 'll have a
great time!
Many thanks to the Mercury Cafe and it's crew, the Denver Tango community
as large and of course, to Marilyn for her support of the Tango community!
Judith
Judith Farkas
Senior Account Manager
Paracel
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134
510.583.6175 Phone
judith @paracel.com
www.paracel.com
>>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:53:59 -0600
From: Robert Schoenberg2 <robert.schoenberg @US.AKERMAR.COM>
Subject: Fresedo Tango
Dear List,
I am looking for a CD with a milonga called "El Espiante". I think the artist and composer was Osvaldo Fresedo and it was recorded in the 30's. I am also looking for Fresedo's interpretation of "La Mariposa" from that time period. If any one can help me I would be greatful.
Robert Schoenberg
Houston, Texas
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:18:37 -0500
From: Jorge Navarro <jorge @XMAIL.COM>
Subject: Mr. Tango Shoes
There is a new web page: http://www.tangoinmiami.com/favorite.htm.
It's all about "Mr. Tango Shoes" aka Jorge Nel Giraldo, who is pictured with a pair
of shoes hanging over his shoulders.
Among many claims about "Mr. Tango Shoes", there is this one:
"This line of shoes has already begun to take over the market in South America
due to its exceptional quality and design."
I am shocked to note that Arthur of South Florida has neglected to promote this
important development in the world of the Argentine Tango.
I personally have no financial interest in the information
provided above, do not expect any commission from "Mr. Tango Shoes", and doing it simply for the benefit of the Tango community world-wide.
Regards,
Jorge.
=====================
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 27 Jan 2000 to 28 Jan 2000 (#2000-27)
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