The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 26 Jan 2000
to 27 Jan 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:00:08 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 26 Jan 2000 to 27 Jan 2000 (#2000-26)
There are 10 messages totalling 460 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Live Music: Dancing to Piazzolla?
2. National Geographic Tango Documentary
3. Escuela Bohemia (2)
4. Escuela Bohemia - Ernesto Carmona & Norma Tomasi
5. Ernesto Carmona , an "enchanting" Tango Teacher! (2)
6. Dancing to Live Music (3)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:33:04 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Live Music: Dancing to Piazzolla?
A major shortcoming of the recorded music from the "Golden Age" is
that it doesn't capture the tremendous dynamic range of a live tango
orchestra. The first time I heard live tango I was blown away by the
intensity of the music. It was Sexteto Sur at the Molino in Buenos
Aires, an incredibly beautiful location that seems destined to
continue mouldering away in disuse.
A couple of years ago I managed to bring Tangata Rea to Colorado.
Again, the dynamic range and intensity of the music was like nothing
anybody had seen. It was like lightening sparking straight into
peoples' hearts.
Tango may be a dance between two people, but the orchestra is the
third partner. You reach a higher level of inspiration when you can
look up from dancing to catch the twinkle in the bandoneon players
eye just as the orchestra surges into the frenzy of a
bandoneon-violin duet.
The other weekend, the twinkle was in the eye of Dan Diaz, a
bandoneon player from Utah who has been putting together tango
"camerati" (tango jam sessions) in Atlanta, Washington, DC, and
Denver, Colorado. This time he invited musicians from Kansas City and
Chicago to join forces with Extasis, Colorado's own tango quartet. If
there are 12 decent bandoneon players in the US (as someone has
said), we had 1/4 of them playing together on Saturday.
For two years now the Mercury Cafe in Denver has been doing live
tango about twice per month. Marilyn, the owner of the Mercury has
been fostering musical communities for 20 or 30 years, and once she
got into tango's thrall, she began casting about for tango musicians.
Extasis, our local orchestra started when Evan Orman, a concert
Cellist, learned bandoneon, and put together a quartet, working first
with Orquesta Atipica (musicians from Chicago), and then with violin,
piano and bass.
Here are the musicians who came for the Denver Triple Milonga Weekend:
From Utah:
Daniel Diaz - bandoneon
From Chicago:
Jean Oerlich - bandoneon
From Kansas City:
Christine Brebes - violin
Beau Bledsoe - guitar
Extasis from Denver:
Evan Orman - bandoneon
Ken Harper - double bass
Rosanna Patrona-Aurand - piano
(Erin Furbee the regular violinist for Extasis couldn't make it).
Friday's quartet formation emphasized more of the straight-ahead
dance music, while Saturday's Septet played more from Piazolla's
repertoire. Sunday afternoon featured a smaller orquesta with more
intimate music.
While many dancers prefer the 1940s sound, many musicians, especially
from a classical background study Piazzola. I would welcome
discussion of that controversy, but would like to note that Piazzola
feels much less intellectual when played live. Adios Nonino has a
tremendous emotional range when played live. I see the dancers
developing a sensitivity and a tender musicality.
Dan Diaz <dan @intellinks.com> visits Colorado regularly, and will be
on a "third weekend" of the month schedule for the next few months,
coming back in February and March. Please review the Tango in
Colorado website for updates: http://www.tango.org/dance
Tom Stermitz
2612 Clermont St
Denver, CO 80207
Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors
"On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory."
(303) 388 - 2560
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/
http://www.tango.org/dance/
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:07:42 -0800
From: Mark Celaya <mark-joan-tango @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: National Geographic Tango Documentary
Hello List Members,
Many thanks to Charles Roques for informing us of the re-broadcast of the
tango documentary that was originally aired 6 years ago. It was (then)
very well presented and I`m sure those of you viewing it for the first
time will find it very interesting and perhaps controversial as I think
it will generate many letters to the List. The tango for me has grown &
changed immensely since that first airing & I for one will find it very
interesting to compare today`s tango scene to the scenario that was
presented then.
Most noteworthy, I feel, will be Robert Duvall`s prophetic statement
(very accurate) at the close of the show. And perhaps the most
controversial will those of Maria Nieves. From a collectors point of view
it shows "famous" couples who do not dance together any more; and also
you will see Diego & Carolina as young teenagers learning the tango from
Copes - they, of course progressing to star on Broadway in "Forever
Tango", producing & starring in the PBS showing "Tango Magic" (available
on video cassette), and also, I was honored to have them featured in the
show that I produced for the Hollywood Bowl "Tango Magic Weekend", 2
years ago.
National Geographic, I feel, has superbly produced a wonderful show that
is, as Charles stated, well worth viewing (& taping). Those of you who
have been searching for a copy of the original broadcast can probably
find it with anyone who has been dancing tango for more than 6 years.
Evereyone I know has a copy of it.
Enjoy the show. Thanks again, Charles.
Sincerely,
Mark Celaya
http://home.att.net/~mark-joan-tango
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:38:12 -0800
From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICE.COM>
Subject: Re: Escuela Bohemia
Wasn't Ernesto Camona one of the teachers at the 1st Tango Congress in Miami?
Is he the one with a long pony tail?
The one who nearly got into a fist fight with one of the students
when the student pointed out to Ernesto that he was teaching one thing
and then doing quite the opposite while dancing with his partner?
If that's the guy, then one could see him on the video from that Congress.
If that is not Ernesto, my apologies in advance. If Ernesto is as good as
Arthur suggests, one might wonder, why then Jorge Nel (an experienced organizer
and teacher himself) does not bring him to teach at his Congress.
Happy Tango Walking!
Joe Camper.
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:28:42 +0100
From: Colin Brace <cb @LIM.NL>
Subject: Re: Escuela Bohemia - Ernesto Carmona & Norma Tomasi
In <20000126143812.29478.cpmta @c014.sfo.cp.net>, on 01/26/00
at 06:38 AM, Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICE.COM> said:
> Wasn't Ernesto Camona one of the teachers at the 1st Tango Congress in
> Miami? Is he the one with a long pony tail?
> The one who nearly got into a fist fight with one of the students when
> the student pointed out to Ernesto that he was teaching one thing and
> then doing quite the opposite while dancing with his partner?
This sounds like Ernesto. His style can be, er, abrasive, to put it
mildly. I found Ernesto's and Norma's classes indeed unique, unlike
anything else I'd encountered in BsAs, but wouldn't unconditionally
recommend them, a CERTAINLY not "at least a dozen classes." They do lots
of unusual things, like having you dance tango to strange music, like
Alfredo Zittarossa (folk from Uruguay), as part of an effort to bring out
expressiveness and break mannerisms in your dance. They both like to talk
a lot -- a twenty or thirty minute soliloquy is not unusual -- and Ernesto
only speaks Spanish, so if you go their classes in BsAs, you will miss a
lot if you are not fluent in Spanish. Their classes attract an odd mixture
of people, some superb dancers, some awful ones, some people for whom a
tango class is cheaper than going to a shrink. Ernesto and Norma both
rotate partners frequently, meaning your learning experience may vary from
class to class depending on who you are assigned to dance with. Neither of
the two of them go to milongas, some of their students do, others don't,
and I feel that, with respect to the teaching skills of tango teachers,
"the proof is in the pudding."
Ernesto and Norma have interesting things to say about the tango but I
don't feel their's is the most efficient way to learn how to become a
proficient social tango dancer.
--
Colin Brace <cb @lim.nl>
Amsterdam
http://www.lim.nl
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:57:50 EST
From: Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg @AOL.COM>
Subject: Ernesto Carmona , an "enchanting" Tango Teacher!
Joe and the Tango List:
Sorry Joe! You must have the wrong guy. Ernesto was here only two years
ago!
I am never sure about what other people say from foggy recall of incidents
of several years past. I do know and speak from personal experience and
extensive and intensive contact that the instruction I received at the
Escuela Bohemia from Ernesto and Norma improved almost every phase of my
Argentine Tango. He took all the loose ends that I had acquired from half a
dozen "fantasia tango" dancers and smoothed them out to my complete
satisfaction and delight. Thanks to him and Norma Tomasi and the Tango
environment in Buenos Aires, Argentina, I think that I am as close to being a
good Tango dancer as I want to be in this lifetime.
About his not being hired by Jorge Nel for his current congress, Ernesto
starts his day in Buenos Aires at times teaching private classes at his
school at 7AM each day and has a full week of classes to teach throughout the
week. He does not earn his money on the stage. So he is never unemployed.
He is not on call and available when you want him since he makes his money 52
weeks a year, teaching his students and running his full time dance school.
No matter what you pay him he feels that his school and his full time
occupation as a dance teacher in Buenos Aires takes priority over coming to
Florida and teaching workshops at a Tango Congress. Sorry guys! If you
want to taste some excellent Tango instruction from one of the best Tango
teachers there is you will probably have to make the trip to Buenos Aires.
Believe me! This man is "an enchanting" individual who "lives and loves the
Argentine Tango". And since he works 52 weeks out of the year he is profres.
His prices might be up a dollar or two. I told him that his prices were too
low! He only smiled!
Regards to all the Tangueros Tangueras and aspiring Tango dancers who are out
there in front of their computers. It is amazing that we have now over 1000
subscribers to this list! Wow! Incidentally I am beginning to get requests
to send out the 7 page Jorge Nel Tango Congress of Miami Beach (May1st to
May6th, 2000. ) Be sure to put your mailing address in your E-mail request.
I will respond immediately by putting them in the mail the same day you make
your request. Absolutely free with no obligation or cost to you!
Sincerely,
Arturo
AHGberg @aol.com
West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:04:06 -0000
From: white95r <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Escuela Bohemia
Joe,
Ernesto is indeed the guy who was in the first Tango Congress in Miami and
you can watch him in the video tape. I don't know anything about the
incident you mention of the confrontation with the student.
I was in Miami for that congress and I did not find their classes to be
helpful, but others in my group were very excited about them. I did find
Ernesto and Norma polite enough and their dancing was (IMHO) quite
enjoyable.
Manuel
Original Message -----
From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICE.COM>
Subject: Re: Escuela Bohemia
> Wasn't Ernesto Camona one of the teachers at the 1st Tango Congress in
Miami?
> Is he the one with a long pony tail?
> The one who nearly got into a fist fight with one of the students
> when the student pointed out to Ernesto that he was teaching one thing
> and then doing quite the opposite while dancing with his partner?
>snip<
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:04:32 +0100
From: Colin Brace <cb @LIM.NL>
Subject: Re: Ernesto Carmona , an "enchanting" Tango Teacher!
In <67.103623b.25c0d5ee @aol.com>, on 01/26/00
at 05:57 PM, Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg @AOL.COM> said:
> No matter what you pay him he feels that his school and his full time
> occupation as a dance teacher in Buenos Aires takes priority over coming
> to Florida and teaching workshops at a Tango Congress.
This is not completely accurate. Carmona has been spending several months
a year teaching on Bologna, Italy.
--
Colin Brace <cb @lim.nl>
Amsterdam
http://www.lim.nl
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:15:05 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Dancing to Live Music
Hi Tom:
I read Tom's post about dancing to live music with some interest.
Having danced to three live tango orchestras, and having listened to a
first-rate player play his bandoneon for me and Susan, I find the
bandoneon to be an incredibly expressive instrument. Few recordings
come close to capturing its sound. Daniel Barenboim's CD "Tangos
Among Friends" comes very close to capturing the bandoneon's live
sound when it is played through a high-end stereo. No recording that
I have heard from the Golden Age comes close.
I agree with Tom that the effect of a live tango orchestra with a
bandoneon and a good sense of rhythm seems to lessen the rhytmic
challenges of dancing to more complex music than was typically played
in the Golden Age of tango.
When Susan and I attended the 1994 Stanford Tango Week, the New York
Tango Trio (in its incarnation as The New York-Buenos Aires Connection)
played for the evening milongas. Prior to hearing them play, we were
struggling to move to the rhythm of tango music. Hearing them play was
a revelation. And even though they played in a style that tended
toward a new tango in that incarnation, everyone found their music
great for dancing. We gave them a big standing ovation at the end of
the tango week. Yet, when occasionally I play their recording of La
Cumparsita at our practica, a few people will complain about having to
dance to jazz tango.
One of the shortcomings of dancing to live music, however, is that if
the orchestra drops the rhythm--which has never been a problem with
the New York Tango Trio--the dancers may find themselves dancing
poorly without really understanding why. Dancing to the music helps
partners maintain their connections with each other. If the orchestra
does not do its part, the dancers will have more difficulty do theirs.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:55:56 EST
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing to Live Music
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I too read with interest Tom's post about dancing to live music. It seems
that it is always more fun to dance to live music (unless the musicians are
bad). It is the same whether it's swing, salsa or tango. I am frankly
envious of the folks in NYC who have regular milongas with live music. Same
with the people in Miami and a few other places in the USA and Canada.
I've had the good fortune to have Jorge Vernieri play for us here in
Atlanta. He is a fabulous pianist who's played with many of the orchestras
of the golden age of tango and plays with contemporary tango groups as well.
Once we even got Miguel Arrabal to come from Miami and play with Jorge in a
tango trio for one of our events.
Alas, Jorge moved away and now we have no access to tango musicians in
Atlanta (at least not readily).
Anyway, to get live tango music, we must travel. That is one of the reasons
that I really like CITA in Bs As. they have live music in all their
milongas. Not only that but the orchestras actually play very much in the
style of the old orchestras. Some sound like D' Arienzo, some like Pugliese,
etc. To dance to this music is really a unique experience. Those who were
fortunate enough to attend the first CITA already know this. Those of you
who are going for the first time are in for a real treat!
Curiously, I never got to dance at a milonga in Bs As with live music other
than at CITA. I'm sure that there are milongas with live music in Bs As, I
would like to hear about them, where and when they occur, etc. For now, I'm
eagerly awaiting my next visit to CITA in Bs As for my next live tango music
experience!
Manuel
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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<td valign="top" align="left"><font face="Comic Sans MS, cursive" color="#330099"><div name='messagebody'>I too read with interest Tom's post about dancing to live music. It seems that it is always more fun to dance to live music (unless the musicians are bad). It is the same whether it's swing, salsa or tango. I am frankly envious of the folks in NYC who have regular milongas with live music. Same with the people in Miami and a few other places in the USA and Canada.
<br>I've had the good fortune to have Jorge Vernieri play for us here in Atlanta. He is a fabulous pianist who's played with many of the orchestras of the golden age of tango and plays with contemporary tango groups as well. Once we even got Miguel Arrabal to come from Miami and play with Jorge in a tango trio for one of our events.
<br>Alas, Jorge moved away and now we have no access to tango musicians in Atlanta (at least not readily).
<br>Anyway, to get live tango music, we must travel. That is one of the reasons that I really like CITA in Bs As. they have live music in all their milongas. Not only that but the orchestras actually play very much in the style of the old orchestras. Some sound like D' Arienzo, some like Pugliese, etc. To dance to this music is really a unique experience. Those who were fortunate enough to attend the first CITA already know this. Those of you who are going for the first time are in for a real treat!
<br>Curiously, I never got to dance at a milonga in Bs As with live music other than at CITA. I'm sure that there are milongas with live music in Bs As, I would like to hear about them, where and when they occur, etc. For now, I'm eagerly awaiting my next visit to CITA in Bs As for my next live tango music experience!
<br>
<br>Manuel
<br>
<br>
<br></div></font></td>
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 02:45:27 EST
From: "Laurie Moseley (at home)" <LGMoseley @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing to Live Music
I agree that it can be a pleasure to dance to GOOD live music. It does,
though, have to be good. I've been to milongas at which the floor really
filled with experienced dancers when the band took a break and the DJ went
back to CDs.
Laurie (Laurence)
End of TANGO-L Digest - 26 Jan 2000 to 27 Jan 2000 (#2000-26)
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