The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 23 Jan 2000
to 24 Jan 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:00:00 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 23 Jan 2000 to 24 Jan 2000 (#2000-23)
There are 5 messages totalling 319 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Too much of a good thing! Tango Congresses Galore! (2)
2. Tango Etiquette: The "Eye Game"
3. Re Meet in the Middle
4. Convert to digest
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:55:48 EST
From: Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg @AOL.COM>
Subject: Too much of a good thing! Tango Congresses Galore!
Hi Tangueros & Tangueras:
It seems to me that there are "too many" "congresses and work shops" in
such a short span of time for me to properly partake of. After attending
scores of classes at the various congresses and "dancing the night away to
live music" I am beginning to come to the conclusion that one needs to be
more selective when it comes to attending all the the beautiful classes
presented at the upcoming Tango Congresses that the current menu seems to
offer to the tango dancing consumer.
I must confess that I truly loved visiting Buenos Aires, the lovely home and
origin of the Argentine Tango. The people (citizens of Argentina) were the
best thing about the trip....social, helpful, friendly and accommodating.
They made me feel right at home even though I spoke little Spanish and was a
foreigner in their country! Unfortunately I stayed at what I considered to
be one of the dirtiest hotels I have ever had the misfortune to check in
to! It came highly recommended; also the 9 hour plane trip was almost too
much to bear unless you booked in First Class. I needed two days to recover
from the sleepless and uncomfortable flight. If I had my "druthers" the next
time I visit Buenos Aires I would rent a room or suite of rooms and stay a
month or two. I would visit the other parts of Argentina that so many of my
Argentine friends have recommended. In my humble opinion, taking 25 or
thirty hours of workshops and dancing till the early hours of the morning
every night is/are too much for any normal person's mental and physical
stamina. One needs more time to walk around Buenos Aires to see the sights
more and not be in a Tango vacuum when you visit. Take a guided bus tour!
Take a map with you! Get a guide book (here in the USA before you leave for
Argentina. When you get to Buenos Aires take the time to get acquainted with
the taxis and subway systems. I would avoid the buses as much as I could.
Like bus transportation almost anywhere, it is slow, overcrowded and
tedious! The subway system in Buenos Aires is marvelous! Be sure you know
where you want to go. Get a map! Ask for directions before you get
lost.....not after you get lost! Investigate the scores of reasonably priced
restaurants with steaks and yes, salads. Familiarize yourself with the
prices so you can avoid getting "suckered!" Most people are honest! There
are few who might take advantage of you if you present yourself as an
"unknowledgeable tourist"!
If I could take lessons perpetually from Buenos Aires based teachers,
Ernesto Carmona and his lovely partner, Norma Tomasi on a regular basis.....I
could endure and would endure almost anything. Their Dance School is on
Corrientes in Buenos Aires. He is definitely not a "fantasia" teacher. Just
sound and beautiful Argentine Tango at its best! At reasonable rates! I
would rank him up there with the top Tango Instructors in the world. If you
go to Buenos Aires and Mr. Carmona is not teaching at the workshops.....go
and visit him at his school. His approach to teaching Tango is "unique" and
I really think you will miss something " unbelievably enlightening" if you do
not take at least a dozen lessons from him.
In the meanwhile here in the USA there are two....separate and distinct
Miami Tango Congresses to choose from. It is difficult to compete with the
high quality of the Miami hotels or the Florida weather. The beach! The
pool! The sunny days where one can go around in light clothing and revel in
the beautiful environment. One Tango Congress is organized and presented by
Randy & Lydia! The other by Jorge Nel and Marta ( Marta and Lydia are
sisters). It is unfortunate that the four who presented the First Miami
Tango Congress a few years ago, are now in competition with each other and
running two separate Tango Congress events. Here in Florida, our (the
consumer) cup(s) runneth over. Two Tango Congresses in the same city. In
my opinion, It is also unfortunate that Randy and Jorge, formerly good
friends and close business associates, are now competitors and adversaries.
Come on guys! If we can establish peace in the middle east and in
Yugoslavia it would seem that it would not be too much for you guys, to get
back together again and strengthen and improve the Miami Tango Community in
the best interests of all involved. One super dynamite congress is all we
need.
So...........Whatever you do in the coming months, I wish all my friends
and acquaintances across the country and around the world, more and better
Argentine Tango. Hope to see you at the upcoming congresses! Do not wait
for the last minute to register and reserve your rooms in the busy and
thriving Miami Beach hotels. Where are my sun-glasses! I am going out in
the sun and watch all the lovely bodies in their bikini bathing suits. (They
(the bikinis) seem to be growing smaller each year!)
Phew! Miami Beach! There is nothing like it! Put away your snow shovels
and mittens and come on down!
Sincerely,
Arturo
AHGberg @aol.com
West Palm BEach, Florida, USA
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:26:08 -0700
From: "Brian P. Dunn" <brianpdunn @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Tango Etiquette: The "Eye Game"
Maureen, you raise several heartfelt questions. I wanted to address some of
them, especially as they pertain to asking for a dance and accepting an
invitation to dance...
>>>
Also, when my
husband asks another lady to dance at the milonga (which is fine with me) do
I sit alone while they are dancing (also fine with me) or is it the custom
to
arrange for me to join others during that time?
<<<
There is no custom that I'm aware of about joining others when one's partner
is dancing with someone else. In a perfect world, at the moment your
husband left you to dance elsewhere, another man would see his absence as an
opening to ask you to dance. He might feel emboldened by your husband's
departure, taking it as a signal that you are probably willing to accept his
invitation in your husband's absence (in a milonga setting, it's useful to
assume that everyone is watching everyone else, and that everyone sees
everything). To the degree that it creates tension to watch your partner
having fun while you are not, seeking out others is a way to alleviate this
tension. It can, however, make it harder for someone to ask you to dance
unless you continue to face the room and "watch everyone else (see below)."
>>>
I've also noticed that when
a gentleman asks me to dance, he does not ask my husband's permission (in
this liberated age this seems correct)nor even acknowledge that my husband
is there (this strikes me as a bit rude, since we are clearly there
together).
<<<
When accompanying two attractive women to milongas on my first trip to
Buenos Aires, I found that men who wanted to dance with one of my companions
would often approach me first with a look of inquiry. I assumed this was to
invite me to respond with relaxed acquiescence or with some sign of tension
indicating my opinion of whether the man should proceed to ask one of my
companions to dance. These were younger Argentine men, 20-25 or so. The
point on their side seemed to be to "avoid trouble" in case I was the
jealous type. This felt to me like a genuine non-trivial interaction
between us as men, not a lifeless pro-forma ritual.
In the situation you describe, it seems more appropriate for the approaching
potential partner to (in my acting teacher's words) "take in" both parties
to the couple before asking the woman to dance. This might be simply making
eye contact with both to acknowledge the presence of the relationship.
Otherwise, the man's approach seems to me to have an aggressive, provocative
edge.
I think much of this behavior results from the fact that we don't have a
culture oriented around social dance, and there is no consensus on these
etiquette issues here. The Argentines, of course, went through a period in
tango's "Golden Age" when virtually everybody danced. Although some
traditions faded while tango became less popular during the military
dictatorships, their cultural thinking on dance etiquette is still far more
richly textured than ours. Issues of asking for dances and accepting with
grace and consideration are frequently resolved through eye contact at a
distance. One of my traveling companions, for example, made affirmative eye
contact with another man, emboldening him to approach our table and interact
with me on the assumption that his polite inquiry would meet with
acceptance. At another time, my other companion found herself the center of
a swirl of tension and hurt feelings at an Argentine milonga, because she
had been nodding and smiling to a host of men who were trying to catch her
eye at the time she was dancing with someone else. All of these men thought
she was accepting the next dance with them!
I try to do the "eye game" whenever I see a potential partner engaged in
conversation with anyone, male or female. It involves placing myself within
their field of vision and staring at them in hopes of catching their eye.
If I catch their glance, I raise an eyebrow inquiringly, perhaps nodding my
head in the direction of the dance floor. If I fail to catch their eye, or
if I catch it and eye contact is quickly withdrawn by my prospective
partner, I don't pursue the invitation further at that time, nor do I take
offense; perhaps the conversation is more important to them at the time.
Although this "eye game" is not as widely practiced here, it offers several
benefits in the situation you describe with your husband. If you make
"affirmative eye contact" with another man while sitting with your table
partner, perhaps with a slight nod or a smile, you communicate your
willingness to dance with him perhaps even while you are engaged in a
conversation with your table partner. If you observe him beginning to
approach your table, you can gracefully excuse yourself from your
conversation while you rise to approach your new partner. Your new partner
observes you rising to meet him, and so he need not "confront" your table
partner at all. Sometimes it feels appropriate to make eye contact with the
"bereft" table partner as a way of saying "pardon me" from a distance.
A woman wishing to be asked to dance might adopt a "scan the room" look
where her glance sweeps her field of vision slowly, looking nowhere in
particular, while men might stare at her to "pose the question". If she
doesn't want to dance with a particular individual, she sweeps past his
glance, locking eyes only with someone with whom she would like to dance.
As long as the men understand the code, no one will bother her unless she
"invites" it first. This avoids the need to publicly refuse someone (with
attendant damage to delicate male egos) while reserving the control of the
interaction for the woman. Because of the discreet and private nature of
the eye contact, it also allows women to solicit a dance from a man without
risk as well, and for men to accept or decline such an invitation.
So, if you go off to find a conversation when your husband leaves to dance
elsewhere, try to face the floor and keep scanning the room for invitations!
Brian Dunn
Boulder, Colorado
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:38:58 -0600
From: Karen Whitesell <kglass @IPA.NET>
Subject: Re Meet in the Middle
Dear List,
Many thanks to the many friends who answered with words of
encouragement.
Offering my place to come and tango was by no means trying to compete
with the established tango weeks. I, too, have experienced the magic of
Miami,... and Stanford,...and Santa Fe... But those are once a year
happenings, I'm wanting to dance everyday if I want, so am creating that
place here at home.
Mt Vernon has no grand hotels or fancy feasts found on cruises. I WILL
have a balcony to dance on, and in the dark, who is to know it over
looks the feed store across the way. I think dancing is the main
entree, and I'm never too bored of tango to want to see any side
attractions when I travel.
As for interesting things here close, there is Branson, where you can
see staged hillbillies. Branson is the largest drive to vacation in the
U.S., next to Disney World. Soon, I will be able to offer drive by
tango!
I can show you cows. Mt Vernon and surrounding Lawrence County has the
largest beef production in MO, and MO is second only to Texas. Beef is
one part of Agriculture that makes agriculture and ag related products
the largest industry in the U.S., contributing to 17% of its GNP.
Argentina is also an agribased economy, but you have to get out of
Buenos Aires to see this.
So, I will welcome you to the heartland, and I'm not competing for your
milonga money. Robinne's idea to get together was just an opportunity
to introduce my project. Pictures are in the planning for a web site.
Until then, dance one for me,
Karen
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:31:47 -0500
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing! Tango Congresses Galore!
While I agree with almost all of Arthur's happy observations about tango,
there is one where I think he is missing important issues.
Arthur said:
> "It seems to me that there are "too many" "congresses and work shops" in
> such a short span of time for me to properly partake of>
> (stuff deleted)
> In the meanwhile here in the USA there are two....separate and distinct
> Miami Tango Congresses to choose from......One Tango Congress is organized
and presented by Randy & Lydia! The other by Jorge Nel and Marta ( Marta
and Lydia are
> sisters). ..... It is unfortunate that the four who presented the First
Miami
> Tango Congress a few years ago, are now in competition with each other and
> running two separate Tango Congress events... In my opinion, It is also
unfortunate that Randy and Jorge, formerly good friends and close business
associates, are now competitors and adversaries. Come on guys! .... it
would seem that it would not be too much for you guys, to get back together
again and strengthen and improve the Miami Tango Community in the best
interests of all involved. One super dynamite congress is all we need."
This breach beteen sisters and former friends is unfortunate - but not any
of our business. I'm surprised to see it as a topic on the list. What I do
know is that my schedule never permitted me to attend the one congress
organized by Jorge and Randy together, and it was not until Randy offered an
alternative that we could participate in this great event. We had a
fantastic time last May! Also, if you look closely at the teacher list and
proposed schedules, you will find two very different events. You can decide
for yourself which YOU think is better or more interesting, but having the
choice is a GOOD thing for tango. As long as the organizers can fill their
slots to at least break even, I hope they will continue to offer this
choice. (And how I wish all tango event organizers could actually make
money at it!)
Arthur, you're right about Miami Beach - I wish I could hop on a plane today
and find myself walking barefoot in the warm sand! How about dancing salsa
tonight in South Beach ..... home of the most beautiful women in the world!
You are a lucky man.
Cheers!
Melinda
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:43:39 -0800
From: Ronnie McCullough <ronnie @SONIC.NET>
Subject: Convert to digest
We would like to convert from TANGO-L to the Digest version.
Thanks
Jim and Ronnie McCullough
Happy to be living & working in Sebastopol
Jim & Ronnie at clan Mc
End of TANGO-L Digest - 23 Jan 2000 to 24 Jan 2000 (#2000-23)
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