The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 21 Jan 2000
to 22 Jan 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 03:00:08 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 21 Jan 2000 to 22 Jan 2000 (#2000-21)
There are 10 messages totalling 357 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. TANGO ETIQUETTE (2)
2. Memorable Argentine Tango Experience (2)
3. Thank you
4. What is a milonguero? (3)
5. Long Quotes
6. Tango Fantasy in Miami Beach
REMINDER: Announcements of Tango events or products should be sent to
Tango-A and not to TANGO-L. To subscribe to Tango-A, send the
command "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:26:19 MST
From: maureen schmid <maureen_schmid @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: TANGO ETIQUETTE
Being new to tango, I do not know the etiquette at milongas. When a
gentleman whom you do not know asks you to dance, who decides that your
dance time together is over? The lady or the gentleman? How many dances do
you dance before ending? How do you signal that your dance together has
ended? How does the lady thank the gentleman? Or does the gentleman thank
the lady? As you can see, I am in need of "the basics!" Also, when my
husband asks another lady to dance at the milonga (which is fine with me) do
I sit alone while they are dancing (also fine with me)or is it the custom to
arrange for me to join others during that time? I've also noticed that when
a gentleman asks me to dance, he does not ask my husband's permission (in
this liberated age this seems correct)nor even acknowledge that my husband
is there (this strikes me as a bit rude, since we are clearly there
together). Since we are new, we do not generally know others at the
milongas. In 24 years of marriage, I can't remember dancing with anyone but
my husband. I feel like I'm back in junior high school at these milongas -
clammy hands and all, which is both fun and funny. Any tips would be
appreciated.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:08:43 -0500
From: "SOCIETY GEN. IMP/EXP SOGIE," <SOGIE @COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Memorable Argentine Tango Experience
Greetings be to all,
I feel compel to first reveal my identity, before I begin sharing with yo=
u my Argentine tango experience and observation of this past week , which=
started in Miami and ended in Tampa. By so doing, I hope to prevent suc=
h question as "who is this guy?" That is likely to come from English spea=
king members of this forum - or "d'ou vient-il, cet illustre inconnu?" A=
could be typical reaction of any French speaking members of same. Well=
, my name is indicated below and I am an Argentine tango novice or a baby=
tanguero, if I may say so, in the Miami tango community, of Haitian orig=
ins.
I had the good fortune, this last Thursday evening at Hallandale, to be a=
mong the participants who attended an Argentine tango workshop instructed=
by two masters, Daniel Lapadula and Metin Yazir. The most notable thing=
about this encounter, though, was that the two came from two different c=
ontinents, from two countries that are far apart geographically and cultu=
rally, different religious belief, speak differently languages, but yet t=
hey were able to communicate via a medium which transcended all the above=
mentioned differences. I am referring to the language of Argentine tan=
go dance. Although, their styles of dancing differed, their teaching as=
it related to the basic principles of the AT dance, was similar. There=
were many instances where Daniel would start a comment and Metin would c=
omplete it or vice versa. The one step that they improvised and taught =
that evening, which comprises 5 sequences, was constructed as follows: Da=
niel led the first segment then stopped - Metin took turn and contributed=
his own. I will not give descriptive details, but the final product tu=
rned out to be, in my humble opinion, a masterpiece. I've used this part=
icular step in almost every tango that I've danced to this past weekend a=
nd it worked beautifully. =
=
I had the good fortune, again, last Sunday in Tampa, to part take in anot=
her workshop taught, this time, by Metin Yazir, a fine AT master. By all=
uding to him as a fine AT master, I simply reiterate the term used by the=
hostess who introduced him. Some may find the words "good fortune" rath=
er strong. But I am sure the majority of the attendees of last Sunday wo=
rkshop will agree that the quality of instruction offered at the workshop=
will infallibly provoke improved fundamental changes in their dancing st=
yle, as I personally am experiencing same. For instance stepping forward=
on ones toes as opposed to heels was, at one point in time, a very contr=
oversial topic. However, Metin favored walking on his heels. His prefer=
ence to land on his heels in forward steps follows a certain logic. He i=
llustrated his point by taking a walk around the room and demonstrated th=
at his chest naturally preceded his left or right foot as he stepped forw=
ard. "Why should I step with my toes when, I could walk much more comfor=
tably, with elegance and yet relax while on the dance floor, when I have =
the option to use my heels", he said. He further stated that stepping fo=
rward on toes is not healthy because it will, in the long run, strain one=
s spine.
Metin's dancing style is similar to Fabian Salas or Chicho... It corresp=
onds, more or less, to the trend labeled "New wave or New tango". The h=
onest truth is, I found this particular style to be physically demanding=
, extremely complex, challenging and at best intimidating to dance, when =
considering the constant change of directions, ganchos, left-right sacada=
s and the fluidity, which in part, characterize it. Yet, I was amazed a=
t Metin's pedagogical method and his abilities to simplify such complicat=
ed and involved steps, which, at first, seem conjuring in the eyes and mi=
nd of a novice tanguero that I am. He used known objects and symbols to=
help students better identify and perform each new step that he introduc=
ed, with some degrees of accuracy and confidence. His method proved to b=
e very effective in increasing the student's memory rate of retention of=
new steps. As a matter of fact, several of the participants that I spo=
ke with at the milonga in Tampa, concurred with this assessment. I must =
mention that he only taught three or four new steps while he concentrated=
mainly on technique. Allow me to interject that he complimented the Tam=
pa tangueras and tangueros in his introductory remarks for good posture a=
nd theirs steps, although limited in number, but clear cut and clean. Un=
doubtely, the credit goes to Victor Crichton who, apparently, is doing an=
oustanding job of teaching AT in the Tampa area. =
To conclude, I will submit that I was led to believe and thereby became o=
bstinate by the notion that only an Argentinian born was capable of reac=
hing the pinnacle of the Argentine tango dance. Ironically, during an "=
Argentine tango a trois" performance at last Sunday milonga by Metin, Yvo=
nne and Wendy, the person sitting next to me whispered in my hear "are yo=
u sure he is not Argentinian". I replied , yes, he is Turkish-Argentinia=
n... hemmm...Turk-Argentinean =
=
Sincerely,
Joseph Philoxy =
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:16:52 -0500
From: "L: Anne-Sophie Ville" <Aville @WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject: Thank you
Thanks to all of you who gave me information on the tango scene in Vanc=
ouver.
Hope to see you on the dance floor somewhere
Anne-Sophie Vill=E9
Washington DC
http://www.geocities.com/tanganso
=
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:47:31 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: What is a milonguero?
A friend in Buenos Aires told me his definition of a milonguero:
A milonguero, though he has danced tango most his life, has never taken a
class to learn tango.
A milonguero dances with different women in the milongas, not just one
partner.
A milonguero always invites a woman to dance by making eye contact with her
from his table.
A milonguero is not out to conquer a woman, but just wants to dance with
her.
A milonguero watches the floor first to see who dances well before inviting
a woman to dance.
A milonguero dances with feeling.
I have danced with many of the best milongueros in BsAs over the past year.
I agree with my friend's definition.
Janis Kenyon
(away from BsAs and email January 25-March 5)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:44:07 -0600
From: Joe Grohens <joe @WOLFRAM.COM>
Subject: Re: What is a milonguero?
Hi Janis and the list,
I'm intrigued by this from the standpoint of linguistics and cultural mores.
These meanings all sound positive from the "street dance is real dance"
point of view. And I guess that the semantics of 'milonguero' must be
drifting even in Buenos Aires. Most Argentines I know have always told me
that the word "milonguero" is perjorative, meaning a low-life ne'er-do-well
who just hangs out in dance clubs and doesn't work but lets women support him.
In fact, I think Alberto had a treatise on this point recently, joking that the
Tango catalogs promoting the concept of milonguero ought to be selling
Scotch and Camels.
I remember Gavito saying that his mother would tell him that if he didn't
do his school work he would end up just becoming a milonguero. :-)
So I had thought the whole positive spin on "milonguero" was a North American
marketing ploy. Has the positive usage of "milonguero" recycled itself
into Argentina now from up here? Or is it that the post-80s revival of Tango
in Argentina has rehabilitated the name of milongueros everywhere?
To go further ... is Tango still disreputable in the eyes of the average
well-bred Argentine, or is that completely in the past?
jg
**
Janis Kenyon wrote:
>A friend in Buenos Aires told me his definition of a milonguero:
>
>A milonguero, though he has danced tango most his life, has never taken a
>class to learn tango.
>A milonguero dances with different women in the milongas, not just one
>partner.
>A milonguero always invites a woman to dance by making eye contact with her
>from his table.
>A milonguero is not out to conquer a woman, but just wants to dance with
>her.
>A milonguero watches the floor first to see who dances well before inviting
>a woman to dance.
>A milonguero dances with feeling.
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:08:10 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: What is a milonguero?
Joe Grohens wrote:
>So I had thought the whole positive spin on "milonguero" was a North
>American marketing ploy. Has the positive usage of "milonguero"
>recycled itself into Argentina now from up here? Or is it that the
>post-80s revival of Tango in Argentina has rehabilitated the name of
>milongueros everywhere?
1. Within tango culture the term "milonguero" can have a much
different meaning that it has outside that culture.
2. Historically, upper class Argentines have looked down upon tango
as a dance of common people and ne'er do wells, embracing it only when
it is popular abroad. Tango is currently popular abroad.
3. The reemergence of tango seems to be a romantic movement in the
artistic sense of the term. One of the most important aspects of the
romantic movement is the celebration of the common person. In this
sense, a miloguero is to be celebrated.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:59:00 -0500
From: Michael Ditkoff <Michael.B.Ditkoff @USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: TANGO ETIQUETTE
Maureen Schmid posted a series of questions on tango etiquette.
When a gentlemen,... who decides that your time .. is over? How many
dances do you dance before ending? How do you signal that your dance
has ended? Who thanks who for the dance?
At the end of the first dance, each partner, independent of the other,
can decide not to dance another. The polite way of saying "I don't
want to dance with you again" is to say "Thank you." If the couple
want to dance again, nothing has to be said. Sometimes, my partner and
I just hold the embrace after the last note, say absolutely nothing,
and just wait for the first note of the next tango.
"Thank you" has two meanings and at times you have to guess the
intended meaning. Besides "no more," it can mean "I enjoyed the dance
and want to dance again with you."
I read an article where a woman danced with Carlos Gravita. (My
apologies for any misspelling. Spell check won't work here.) She said
"thank you" after the dance and was escorted to her table. That wasn't
what she wanted.
Maureen then asked about rude men who ask her to dance without
acknowledging that her husband her present. I wish there was a better
answer than get used to it. If you want to send a message, decline the
offer. I was once engaged in deep conversation with my partner and in
the middle of a breath, a man asked the woman to dance.
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:55:02 +0100
From: Helaine Treitman <treitman @GIOTTO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Memorable Argentine Tango Experience
Regarding Joseph's Philoxy's comments about Metin's classes:
> I feel compel to first reveal my identity,
[snip]
> I am an Argentine tango novice or a baby tanguero, if I may say so,
> in the Miami tango community, of Haitian origins.
I feel compelled to comment that the author is the Haitian tanguero in Miami,
and though he's been dancing tango just a few years he, IMO, is NOT a novice,
but a tango POET in his simple yet deeply-felt interpretation of the music.
(There was a thread a couple of weeks ago about leaders like this.) In case
anyone is asking:
> "d'ou vient-il, cet illustre inconnu?"
And I agree it was wonderful having Metin with us in the Miami community. It
was memorable for many of us.
Helaine
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:45:19 +0000
From: Larry Carroll <larrydla @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Long Quotes
It's very thoughtless to include long quotes in your email
of messages we've already received. Please don't do it again.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagh.
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:46:22 -0600
From: tangodude <tangodude @ONECOOLDUDE.COM>
Subject: Tango Fantasy in Miami Beach
One United Tango Congress in Miami Beach.
All the "fabulous" professors actually do show up as advertised.
There are only two couples in the competition: Jorge Nel & Marta vs. Randy
& Lydia.
Ahh, the sun, the sand, the sea, the ice cream, ....
_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
End of TANGO-L Digest - 21 Jan 2000 to 22 Jan 2000 (#2000-21)
*************************************************************