The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 18 Jan 2000
to 19 Jan 2000
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 18 Jan 2000 to 19 Jan 2000 (#2000-18)
There are 14 messages totalling 661 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Exploring: money, scheduling
2. An idea worth exploring (2)
3. Special events
4. Milonga (the dance) music (2)
5. Tango Exchange
6. Instructors Rushing In (Was: Special events)
7. dance exchanges
8. KARENS NEW ADVENTURE,ETC.
9. A trip to BsAs
10. New teachers at the CITA
11. An Idea Worth Exploring
12. Professional AT Dancers and Instructors
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:07:37 -0500
From: Robinne Gray <rlg2 @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Exploring: money, scheduling
Folks,
Based on public and private e-mails, there seems to be a fair amount of
interest in the idea of a "Tango Exchange"! Women are into it because they
tend to benefit less from group classes; men are into it...because the
women are into it, to name but one reason.
Naturally everyone was curious about money. Someone asked: >how would it
be *less risk?*
Well, it *could* be less risk, in the sense that overall expenses are
likely to be lower if one doesn't have to worry about meeting an
instructor's minimum, and an "economy of scale" would be created by the
influx of paying bodies. If the event were a special and infrequent thing,
admission for milongas could be significantly higher than usual, and still
be well worth the cost for the attendees. I wouldn't pay $25 for a
"regular" milonga, but if it had live music and/or a critical mass of good
dancers I would think of it very differently. To pay, say, $50 or $75 for
a weekend of dancing with new/skilled folks would be a bargain, and even
with travel and meal costs added is still easier on the pocketbook than
those huge events.
I'm just throwing out some basic numbers--costs in each city will be
different. Big cities generally pay more to rent space, but they may have
live music right in town. Here in Ithaca the venues are reasonable, but
bringing the NY Tango Trio to town is a big expense.
This is assuming that the events are designed to break even, not to turn
a profit.
I'm told the schedule for the Lindy Exchange hosted by Seattle went
something like this:
Thursday evening: Dinner out for early arrivals
Friday night: Dance with a big band; late-night dancing w/ DJ 'til the
wee hours
Saturday morning: Informal hiking, sightseeing, etc. hosted by local
dancers when possible
Saturday afternoon: Dancing in the park
Saturday night: see Friday night
Sunday: Big potluck picnic, with dancing
Works for me. I like the idea of some alfresco dancing (Bruss: Heritage
Square!), a practica, a tea dance, whatever. I also like the idea of
locals hosting the visitors and showing them around. It's so civilized,
and often the only time you see the sights in your hometown is when you
have visitors! A mix of live and canned music is good since many dancers
have strong preferences for one or the other. "Late night" is kind of
redundant for tango. And it's even healthy for NYers to get out of the Big
Apple once in a while--this means you, Chin-Bow!
More to follow. (I hate sending really long posts.)
--Robinne
Ithaca, NY
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:33:37 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: An idea worth exploring
Robinne has a very interesting suggestion, and one for which the time
is probably right--Tango Exchange Weekends. It seems as though when
most people reach a level of dancing skill where they are comfortable,
tango workshops become less interesting and big milongas become more
interesting. The tango weeks combine workshops and the big milongas.
I think Tom Stermitz in Denver has previously organized a tango
exchange weekend like Robbinne suggests, but without explicitly
announcing it as such.
For me, one of the things that has made every tango week I have ever
attended so interesting is the dancing at the milongas in the evening.
With people from all around the country and world in attendance,
these milongas feel very different than attending a milonga at home or
being one of a few visitors at a milonga in another city.
A possible variation would be for the existing tango weeks to add a
milonga weekend package that could be purchased separately by anyone
including those not attending the tango week.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:24:28 -0500
From: Matej Oresic <matej.oresic @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Special events
Hello,
thanks Robinne for sharing your opinions. You addressed a "touchy"
topic, given most big events in particular in US are so heavily
"workshop-based".
Last Fall in Ithaca we had two events with live music at milongas by NY
Tango Trio (actually a quartet, as well as Marga Mitchel singing during
the show we did, with Diego&Carolina, Facundo&Kery as guest teachers and
several local dancers) and Trio Pantango (Florencia Taccetti visiting),
respectively, and a very simple calculation could show that the success
of each weekend event would not be possible without offering workshops
during the same weekend as well (workshops were great, of course). It is
a sad fact that most people still prefer to pay $20 for a workshop over
$25 for a milonga with live music (if that's what it takes to support
the musicians).
In US many bigger events are offered only as packages, sometimes with
truly ridiculous prices (often not even with live music at milongas),
while I see from limited experience in Europe tango festivals do offer
options of choosing milongas only, or maybe few classes, which makes
everything much more reasonably priced and possibly attracts more
dancers at milongas. Recent TangoMagia Festival in Amsterdam was a great
example.
One generic problem in US is of course the distances btw the "tango
cities". While in Europe you might have five or more strong tango groups
within less than two hour driving distance [in Ljubljana/Slovenia, you
get tangueros from Italy and Austria at their milongas...], you don't
find so many in US within two hour flying distance... which only means
there is still a lot of work to be done in US. Here instructors are
rushing into established tango communities and few think of creating new
communities and that way really do something good for tango, I guess
because that means more work, time, and risk.
The amount of workshops in a given city is not proportional to the level
of dancing, actualy, I see it is more likely inversely proportional, as
long as it is not supported by strong local instruction. There is no
substitute for good regular instruction, and only workshops in that
case, if well paced and assuming their high quality, will enhance the
learning.
So, I guess in order for Robinne's proposal to really work out, which I
think would be very good for tango, more has to be done to spread the
tango withing the "local" area ("local" in US is actualy quite big...).
More communities there will be nearby, even if very small, more likely
it will be for the proposed events to succeed. Tango events are not just
about being able to sell them, but to make them truly enjoyable, and
possibly at affordable prices so that as many tangueros as possible
(like college and high school students, we have so many of them in
Ithaca area) will be able to enjoy them.
Best wishes,
Matej
http://lancelot.bio.cornell.edu/matej/tango/
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:55:52 -0800
From: America Mauhar <amauhar @TPIMS.ORG>
Subject: Milonga (the dance) music
Hi, I am SURE that this has been hashed over before, but I can't find any
info on it. (I thought I'd saved a good message from this list.)
I am currently trying very hard to learn to milonga and I discovered that
my tango CDs have few if any milongas (or valses for that matter). Do the
various musically knowledgeable people I see writing here have any
suggestions for a few CDs with good milongas and/or valses.
Thanks much,
America in San Diego
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:08:15 -0600
From: Joe Grohens <joe @WOLFRAM.COM>
Subject: Re: Milonga (the dance) music
> suggestions for a few CDs with good milongas and/or valses.
The 2-disc compilation "Pa' Que Bailen los Muchachos" (BMT 001-002)
has a lot of milongas and valses. I love this collection -- it has
a sampling of all the major tango orchestras arranged in
sets of approx. 4 tangos, 1 milonga, 1 vals.
All told there are, I think, more than 8 milongas and 8 valses on this
collection. The milongas are many of them in the same medium-slow tempo
though -- not a lot of variety in tempo.
I bought mine online at http://www.tangonadamas.com.
You can even listen to tracks from the CDs for sale.
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:50:41 -0800
From: Mike Hamilton <mikeh @MPL.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Tango Exchange
Dear List,
People seem to be worried about the "chances of success" of a tango
exchange event. But, being a lindy hopper myself as well, the "Lindy
Exchange" events are not really about the success of any particular
milonga or organizers, mostly because they are only vaguely organized.
It's more like a group field trip to one town, where you contact your
friends there and they can either put you up or help you find people
to put you up. (If you've been dancing awhile, chances are you
already know some people in different cities, or know people who do,
who dance). Then everyone just goes. There are a couple of
"organized" things, but, they are more like "announced" than
"organized". The dances are actually regular events, generally, aside
from the fact that the ballrooms or dance venues, being a part of the
community in general, know there will be a bigger crowd, so, it only
makes sense to have a little more going on (eg. late night dances).
There's not really a *risk* being taken. Everyone just flies in,
hangs out, goes dancing. No more "risk" than the regular dances,
really.
The only thing is that there are generally more swing things going on
than tango things, and live bands are much easier to find for swing
than tango (at least in this country).
So, it's really more about what place would be fun to go to? What
places already have stuff going on that you'd want to try? San
Francisco seems like a natural choice. Seattle wouldn't be bad,
either. Let's start calling our friends, and find out when we should
all decend upon them ;-).
Mike
Seattle->San Diego
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:39:50 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Instructors Rushing In (Was: Special events)
Matej wrote:
>Here [in the United States] instructors are rushing into established
>tango communities and few think of creating new communities and that
>way really do something good for tango, I guess because that means more
>work, time, and risk.
I agree with Matej on this observation. Many instructors are avoiding
the work, time and risk of developing new communities by rushing into
communities that are already established. In doing so, they are
demonstrating why creating a tango community is unlikely to pay off
financially. Once a pioneer or group of pioneers establishes a tango
community, new instructors move in dividing the pie into smaller slices
as it grows.
In a few cases, the founding pioneer has actually been pushed out of the
city. In a few big communities, so many instructors have moved in and
so many visiting instructors teach workshops that the local pioneering
instructors are forced teach workshops elsewhere to earn a living. In
addition, some cities have tango workshops with visiting instructors so
frequently that some of the big name touring instructors bypass the city
as uneconomic.
These economic facts leave the job of creating new tango communities to
local enthusiasts, principally dancers, who are not looking for much of
a financial reward--only the enjoyment of dancing. Of course, it may be
easier to just move to or visit a city that already has an established
tango scene.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:49:28 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay @FOXINTERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: An idea worth exploring
So, I visited the website www.lindyexchange.com. This is a great
idea!
I find it fascinating to dance with people from outside our tango
community. There's so much diversity, and so much to learn! I think
if we all danced with more partners from outside of our network, we'd
learn more than in days of workshops.
What I especially like about the upcoming Denver Lindy event is that
people are offering space in their own homes. That's certainly
generous, but it's something I've done myself for fellow out-of town
dancers. That way, they know more about our scene, can save money,
and I get to learn about other tango communities.
I'm not sure I can fit this in with all my other vacation plans this
year, (including to Buenos Aires) but I'll certainly consider it!
Lois
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:17:05 -0500
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: dance exchanges
Tangueros, here is a sample announcement/invitation for a lindy dance
exchange. Note there are no classes or workshops, hence no "risk"......
This from our delightful friends in Denver:
The Colorado Swing Dance Network presents...Swingin' Down the Mountain, our
first annual National Lindy Hop Exchange. The event will be held February
18-21, 2000, and dancers from around the country are invited to dance three
nights and enjoy up to three days of outdoor winter activities such as
skiing, sledding, cross country skiing, snowshoeing, or just soaking in one
of our natural hot mineral springs, all in the breathtaking Colorado Rocky
Mountains! The exchange is free, and we want to host you in our homes. For
more information, check out our shameless promotional websites on
http://www.lindyexchange.com or http://www.csdn.org, or call (303) 380-7800,
or email Jon Callahan at jonathan_callahan @dpsk12.org or Rob Leary at
robleary1 @hotmail.com for more information!
Doesn't this sound like fun?
I'm from a city where there is lots of non-dance activity of interest
(Washington DC) and I suspect people like me would be tempted to go
someplace where there are also lots of activities, either cultural or
athletic (see above....). I don't think I would go to much trouble to visit
someplace not inherently interesting.
Melinda
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:36:36 +0000
From: "~DANCE MORE TANGO~" <24tango @BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: KARENS NEW ADVENTURE,ETC.
Happy New Year to the List!
I am posting this to the list with Karen Whitesells post in mind.
First, let me congratulate Karen on her new venture, it sounds
very exciting and I can jsut imagine all those wonderful stained
glass windows done in tango themes. You are right Karen, if you
build it they will come, providing they can find Missouri. : )
Next, I would like to comment on something Karen said, that has
never been addressed on the list;
When you come, be ready, you will be asked to perform and teach
regardless of your dance level! I have no dance degree, but am
looking
forward to sharing all I know about the life and times of tango. .
I think this is an excellent idea. So many times, especially here in
south florida at this time of year, we have many visitors from all
over the world. Most of the time they are introduced, some of the
time they are asked to dance, but never has anyone been invited to
impart a bit of their dance knowledge. This is not to say that a
class has to be organized, but perhaps a technique or two can be
shown at some point in the evening. That is, if the visitors are
willing. To push it one step further, how about inviting a local
non-professional to donate a step or technique? Perhaps at the end
of a regular class. Everyone has something to share.
Warm regards to all,
Norma
www.dancemoretango.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:03:29 -0800
From: Michael Brooks <mbrooks @WIZARDS.COM>
Subject: A trip to BsAs
Hola listeros,
I'm seeking a fellow follow who is thinking about or planning a March trip
to Buenos Aires--not for the congress (possibly during the congress), but
to check out the local classes and milongas.
I'm thinking about a 2 week trip and am looking to share accomodations and
travel to the milongas together. Not that we need to be "glued at the
hip", so to speak, but would like a fun and fanatical tanguera (who also
speaks some Spanish) to hang out with as we tango our way through BsAs.
Please email me privately. Thanks!
(Ms.) Michael
Seattle, Washington
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:52:17 -0600
From: tangobabe <tangobabe @IAMIT.COM>
Subject: New teachers at the CITA
Hi, all:
I would like to find some information about the several new teachers at the CITA-2000 in Buenos Aires, namely: Esteban Moreno and Claudia Codega,
Norberto "El Pulpo" Esbrez and Luisa, Mauricio Castro & Moira.
Does anyone know them in terms of how old or young they are, what style do
they dance and teach, who were their teachers, etc. As much information as
possible to help me with my class choices.
Muchas gracias,
Gina.
_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:35:16 EST
From: Randy Pittman <MailAlive @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: An Idea Worth Exploring
Hola Milongueros y Tangueras;
Your idea worth exploring is, an "Ideal that is in the Process" as we write.
Robinne wrote;
>I learned about a network of teachers and
>organizers who coordinate weekends of social dance through a mechanism
>called the Lindy Exchange. What is notable about the Exchange is that it
>doe not involve classes. The whole point is that different cities take
>turns playing host to dancers who convene to dance socially.
Renaldo wrote;
> I believe that your idea of bringing together dancers through an
>"exchange" is a good one. Being from the San Francisco Bay Area and
>dancing 5 nights each week is wonderful.
-Renaldo cont-
>I have had the opportunity to attend workshops (getaways) in Reno,
>Portland, Oregon, Tango Cruise in Caribbean and have visited LA for
>Milongas in my short 8 months of dancing and I have found that the people
>that I have met at these gatherings are as much (or more) fun than the
>instruction that I have received at the workshops. Please do not get me
>wrong, the instructors that I have learned from at these workshop have
>been great, however the social interaction with these "outside"
>Tangueras is what draws me to the workshops also.
Our Tango world is blessed. When Robinne, Renaldo and other Tangueros in San
Francisco, New York and LA can dance 5 to 7 nights a week. When Milongueros
y Tangueras in cities all over the world you can find Tango classes,
practicas and Milongas almost anywhere worldwide, our Tango world is truly
blessed. The Tango world is an exciting and growing experience of life, that
will only continue to grow.
I remember a time not so long ago, when Tango was not so bountiful, as we
enjoy it today. In the summer of 1994, several Tangueros from Miami
(including my partner) attended their first Stanford Tango week program.
Everybody I've ever talked to, has only expressed their great delight and
satisfaction at the workshops.
Tango in S. F. was still in their early growing stages. In 1994 there were
no regular Milongas in S. F. After enjoying the Master instruction provided
during the Stanford Tango daytime program, there were no evening activities.
In the evenings, the attendees would go in groups to the lounges or small
restaurants, and ask the DJ's if they would play a couple of Tangos for them,
most of the times they brought their own taped music with them. Everybody
had a great time and highly praised the Stanford Tango experience. Also in
1994 Tango had not found its way to Colorado, or in many other places in the
US and worldwide.
-Robinne cont-
>Workshops with master teachers certainly have their place, but after
>several years of dancing I find that I am less drawn to group classes and
>that the real appeal of regional events is the coming together of good
>dancers from other communities. I know I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Robinne cont.-
>Of course we've all taken workshops with
>instructors we've enjoyed and learned from, but there are many more
>compelling reasons that a break from workshop-as-centerpiece would be
>refreshing.
Let me continue my history lesson for our new members. Tango summer
workshops started in the early 90's at Stanford University. In 1995 the new
growth started. There was a new event organized at Northwestern University.
As expected, the incredible Master classes, and one Gala party in the Gym at
the end of the event. Everybody raved about it.
In 1996 came the Ohio Tangofest. Top of the line Master professors. The
organizers added nightly practicas to the program. Miguel Angle Zotto was
the professor that attracted my attention and enticed me to join. Miguel
canceled and sent his brother Osvaldo. Ohio Tangofest was Osvaldo' Zotto's
coming out party in the US. Everyone that was there will never forget, the
amazing Osvaldo Zotto, teaching and dancing with a broken arm. He was the
hit of the event.
The Ohio Tangofest was my first personal experience. My partner Lydia and
several of my Miami friends shared with me, their SF Stanford adventure, from
their videos and their hearts. At the Ohio Tangofest, old friendships were
reunited from Tangueros having met at previous events, and new friendships
formed each year. Watching the level of Tango dancing grow each year, was
exciting to me as a dance instructor.
-Robinne-
>The "exchange" approach poses less risk for event organizers, who could
>concentrate their resources on renting great dance halls and hiring
>musicians if possible, and on amenities like decor and refreshments, i.e.,
>throwing a more gala party than usual.
When I personally attended my first week Tango event with the Argentine
Masters in Ohio, I must say that, I agree with you Robinne. The Gala evening
activities were missing from the event. That is when the USTC Tango Fantasy
on Miami Beach event was started. A Tango event, that added the Gala evening
activities, and at a beautiful vacation resort that would compliment the
tremendous teaching program that was started, at the Stanford Tango workshops.
In the beginning we had illusions of grandeur. A great event, lots of people
comming to Miami and making lots of money. There has been 3 grand events,
450 Tangueros have enjoyed unbelievable workshops, and ver 3,000 at our Gala
Milongas, Master dance shows and the IDO Argentine Tango World Championships
at our last 3 USTC Tango Fantasy on Miami Beach events, but the money, Ha Ha
Ha.
Remember the latest discussions on the work vs. the financial rewards of
Milongas. The only difference between local events and major events, is the
amount of the "labor of love" that is put into the project.
-Karen wrote-
>Looking forward to providing that social atmosphere in a beautiful place
>for stained glass and tango. Tango and glass: its beauty, provokes the
>passion.
Karen, I wish you great success, but in the Meantime...................
Everybody's ideals of staying in strangers homes and meeting new friends
through dancing, is very romantic, but as an event organizer, the worked
involved in getting to the bottom line of, people showing up and having a
great time. Either you have to pay out of your pocket, or ask people to
invest in a special event.
-Stephen P. Brown wrote-
>Tango Exchange Weekends. It seems as though when
>most people reach a level of dancing skill where they are comfortable,
>tango workshops become less interesting and big Milongas become more
>interesting. The tango weeks combine workshops and the big Milongas.
Steve de Tejas wrote
>A possible variation would be for the existing tango weeks to add a
>milonga weekend package that could be purchased separately by anyone
>including those not attending the tango week.
-Matej wrote -
>In US many bigger events are offered only as packages, sometimes with
>truly ridiculous prices (often not even with live music at milongas),
>while I see from limited experience in Europe tango festivals do offer
>options of choosing milongas only, or maybe few classes, which makes
>everything much more reasonably priced and possibly attracts more
>dancers at milongas.
Our original goal with the USTC was, to make the evening festivities as grand
as the daytime Master instruction, an experience one will never forget.
We have fine tuned the USTC to try to fit all needs. First, I don't believe
we could attracted as many people to our event without the Argentine Masters,
and if you think that dance halls are expensive, try renting hotel ballrooms.
We do have day passes half day passes and Milonga only passes. Everything
happens under one roof, at a glamorous vacation resort. Those who want the
workshops, can participate with full a registration package that includes 6
hours of daily instruction, plus Gala evening Milongas with live music.
Anyone with under 5 years dancing needs the classes and should use this time
to continue their dance training.
The weekend portion of our event has Gala Milongas, Friday, Saturday and
Sunday in a 20,000 sq. ft. Elegant ballroom. There are classes Sat. & Sun.
included in the package. We have a complete week package, you can take the
weekend and the week package. In the past, we made available for the locals:
one-day passes, half-day passes, with or without Milongas, or Milonga only
passes. We want everybody to be able to enjoy the Tango Fantasy on Miami
Beach experience.
At this time, there are Milongeros y Tangueras that might not be in need of
more dance training and would rather join for the Gala evening activities.
IT IS AVAILABLE. The same daily class pass and Milonga pass that is
available to our local Tango community, is also available to the complete
Tango World. If you wish to fly in and join just the Milongas, welcome.
Joins us at our Milongas and visit South Florida's famous South Beach,
Coconut Grove, and much much more.
In the other festivals, the instructors and the workshops are the centerpiece
of the event. At the USTC Tango Fantasy 2000 we have a strong all-star cast
for our workshops, but the other amenities of nightly Milongas with live
music in a Grand Ballroom on beautiful Miami Beach, and the US qualifying
event for the IDO World Argentine Tango Championship. We've tried to develop
a program for anyone and everyone. If you can't find it here, you won't find
it anywhere.
-Mike from Seattle-
>So, it's really more about what place would be fun to go to? What
>places already have stuff going on that you'd want to try?
I'm always open for suggestions and input, if you want to join us for one
day, the weekend, the week or just for the Milongas, you won't find more
suitable facilities. Just like at Burger King, have it your way, It is here
today.
Join us in Miami.
Tango Forever,
Randy
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:17:42 EST
From: "Carmen M. Ibanez-Lopez" <CMIBANEZ @AOL.COM>
Subject: Professional AT Dancers and Instructors
TO WHOEVER IS INTERESTED:
Guillermo Boyd and Marcela Vallejos, professional dancers and instructors of
Argentine Tango (from Buenos Aires), are visiting Miami at the present time
and are interested in holding workshops in different cities of the United
States.
If you are interested in having them in your city for a special event or for
workshops, please respond directly to the e-mail address and they will be
happy to send curriculum and pictures.
cmibanez @aol,com
End of TANGO-L Digest - 18 Jan 2000 to 19 Jan 2000 (#2000-18)
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