The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 12 Feb 2000
to 13 Feb 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 12 Feb 2000 to 13 Feb 2000 (#2000-43)
There are 4 messages totalling 283 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Caminito, de la Boca a Israel
2. Tango Review
3. The language of Argentina (2)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:14:14 -0600
From: "kata @pitton.com" <kata @PITTON.COM>
Subject: Caminito, de la Boca a Israel
For those who read Spanish
Kate
Construir=E1n una r=E9plica del tradicional paseo porte=F1o en Ashkelon
Caminito, de La Boca a Israel
Estar=E1 a una hora de Tel Aviv y habr=E1 tanguer=EDas, parrillas y un=
museo; lo=20
reproducir=E1n a escala real.
Caminito, s=EDmbolo por excelencia de las costumbres y de la tradici=F3n=20
porte=F1a, tendr=E1 su r=E9plica en Medio Oriente. Las coloridas casas, el=
tango=20
y hasta el olor a asado se podr=E1n disfrutar en Ashkelon, una importante=20
ciudad mediterr=E1nea situada 50 kil=F3metros al sur de Tel Aviv, la capital=
de=20
Israel.
Cuando a mediados del a=F1o =FAltimo Benny Vaknin, el alcalde de la ciudad=
=20
costera israel=ED, recorri=F3 el popular paseo de La Boca acompa=F1ado por=
el=20
entonces jefe de gobierno, Fernando de la R=FAa, qued=F3 maravillado con el=
=20
lugar a tal punto que decidi=F3 construir una r=E9plica de Caminito en su=
ciudad.
Tras m=E1s de seis meses de tratativas, el mi=E9rcoles pr=F3ximo partir=E1=
para=20
Israel una delegaci=F3n de funcionarios del Gobierno de la Ciudad, con los=
=20
planos y las maquetas que confeccion=F3 la Secretar=EDa de Planeamiento=
Urbano,=20
para poner manos a la obra.
"La decisi=F3n est=E1 tomada: se construir=E1 una r=E9plica en tama=F1o real=
de=20
Caminito en Ashkelon, una ciudad situada a orillas del Mediterr=E1neo donde=
=20
viven muchos argentinos", adelant=F3 Itzhak Avir=E1n, embajador israel=ED en=
=20
Buenos Aires.
Seg=FAn el diplom=E1tico, ya se defini=F3 el lugar donde se emplazar=E1n las=
dos=20
cuadras que ocupa el paseo: "Estar=E1 cerca del mar y en una zona muy=20
transitada por turistas de todo el mundo".
El financiamiento de la obra correr=E1 por cuenta del municipio de la=20
localidad israel=ED y por un grupo de empresas que auspiciar=E1n el paseo.
Recorrida con Avir=E1n y Olivera
La Naci=F3n recorri=F3 Caminito con el embajador Avir=E1n, el jefe del=
gobierno=20
porte=F1o, Enrique Olivera, y el secretario de Planeamiento Urbano, Enrique=
=20
Garc=EDa Espil.
"Este paseo es una maravilla; tiene un gran valor cultural; es un pedazo de=
=20
lo mejor de La Boca que pronto estar=E1 en Medio Oriente", dijo Avir=E1n.
"Estamos muy contentos, muy emocionados con este gesto del gobierno=20
israel=ED: por primera vez se har=E1 una r=E9plica de Caminito, lo que nos=
=20
enorgullece a todos los porte=F1os", sostuvo Olivera.
Mientras miraban las maquetas y escuchaban de boca de los t=E9cnicos los=20
detalles de la obra, los funcionarios coincidieron en "la excelente=20
relaci=F3n que mantienen los gobiernos de la Argentina y de Israel, que se=
ve=20
fortalecida por esta iniciativa".
Uno de los que viajar=E1n la semana pr=F3xima a Ashkelon es Jos=E9=
Palmiotti,=20
funcionario del Centro de Gesti=F3n y Participaci=F3n N=BA 3, de La Boca y=
Barracas.
"Para que la r=E9plica de Caminito en Israel sea lo m=E1s fiel posible al=
paseo=20
de Buenos Aires se llevar=E1n 30 obras de arte, cuadros y esculturas, con=20
im=E1genes de La Boca y de personajes porte=F1os; entre ellos no pod=EDa=
faltar=20
Carlos Gardel", destac=F3 Palmiotti.
El vecino de La Boca y permanente colaborador de Olivera adelant=F3 que hay=
=20
avanzadas gestiones para que en la nueva atracci=F3n israel=ED se instalen=
=20
tanguer=EDas, restaurantes de comida argentina y locales para venta de=20
artesan=EDas y productos regionales.
El proyecto contempla la construcci=F3n de las casas frentistas al paseo,=20
pero nadie pudo asegurar qu=E9 se har=E1 en ellas. Algunas se usar=EDan como=
=20
locales comerciales, pero no se pudo precisar si all=ED vivir=E1 gente.
El Caminito israel=ED contempla la apertura de una sucursal de la Casa de=20
Cultura de La Boca, donde los turistas podr=E1n recibir toda la informaci=F3=
n=20
hist=F3rica del barrio porte=F1o.
Alberto Gini, director del paseo, conocido como museo al aire libre=20
Caminito, dijo que aportar=E1 todo el material necesario para que los=20
visitantes del Caminito israel=ED "se sientan como si estuvieran en Buenos=
=20
Aires".
C=F3mo es Ashkelon
Ashkelon es una importante ciudad costera de Israel, con 250.000=20
habitantes. Sus 10 kil=F3metros de playas miran al mar Mediterr=E1neo y son=
=20
concurridas por numerosos turistas de todo el mundo.
Es de muy f=E1cil acceso. Se sit=FAa 54 kil=F3metros al sur de Tel Aviv, a=
59 del=20
aeropuerto internacional Ben Gurion y 70 kil=F3metros al oeste de Jerusal=E9=
n.=20
Est=E1 a pocos kil=F3metros de la Franja de Gaza, territorio aut=F3nomo que=
=20
actualmente es gobernado por la Autoridad Nacional Palestina.
Tambi=E9n se puede llegar por mar, gracias a un moderno puerto deportivo,=20
inaugurado en 1995, con capacidad para 600 embarcaciones.
Los visitantes pueden practicar todo tipo de deportes n=E1uticos, desde=20
yachting hasta windsurf. Adem=E1s, hay un gran complejo para la pr=E1ctica=
del=20
tenis y lugares para equitaci=F3n.
A los cl=E1sicos paseos por la ciudad, que incluyen visitas al museo=20
arqueol=F3gico, a las marinas del puerto y a sitios hist=F3ricos, aunque=
suene=20
extra=F1o habr=E1 que sumarle Caminito, un rinc=F3n de Buenos Aires en Medio=
=20
Oriente.
Andr=E9s Villalonga
La Nacion 12.02.99
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:40:00 +0000
From: Larry Carroll <larrydla @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango Review
Victor Chrichton expressed it beautifully, & I want to second his
message. One of the most important aspects of Argentine tango is
that there is no official, single definition of it. Thus many different
styles arise, giving newcomers to tango a rich source to choose to
when they learn tango. As they become more experienced they can begin
to build their own style, taking what they like from others, perhaps
adding their own unique contribution -- which others can then use.
So tango continues to become richer & more beautiful, like an artwork
that is never finished but is always complete & beautiful.
This has the downside that some people become religious fanatics of one
style or another & not only try to boost it but try to tear down others
who support it. The rest of us must let these people know that we don't
like this behavior. That we enjoy the rich multiplicity of styles & want
it to continue.
Another downside of this muliplicity is that it can be confusing to
beginners. For some people the best tactic is to pick one teacher and
stay with them for a while. After that teacher's style becomes fairly
natural they can then switch to another teacher. Or they can take
lessons with more than one at the same time.
But some people have a lot of dance background, or the type of mind that
is challenged rather than discouraged by complexity. For them taking
lessons from two or more teachers may be the faster or more satisfying
way to learn tango.
As for Fabian Salas & Carlos Gavito, I can only say that I've taken
lessons from both & found both to be good & dedicated teachers that I
don't hesitate to recommend to others.
Larry de Los Angeles
http://home.att.net/~larrydla
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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:09:41 -0600
From: "kata @pitton.com" <kata @PITTON.COM>
Subject: Re: The language of Argentina
The "voseo" (with an S) is used not just in Argentina (actually, it's not
used by all Argentineans), but also in parts of Uruguay, Paraguay, Central
America and by some people in Medellin, Colombia.
The "voseo" is only one of the many things that distinguishes Rioplatense
Spanish from other variations (a word more politically correct than
"dialects").
The "yeismo" -- pronouncing LL and the consonant Y like the "z" in "azure"
-- is also common in the region.
So is a more Italian intonation, rather than the typical almost flat
intonation of Spanish.
While Lunfardo is what many associate with Rioplatense speech, there are also:
Vesre/Verre (reversing or mixing up syllables) -- novi = vino (wine),
bolonqui = quilombo* (mess)
Capicua (repeating the verb from the beginning of the sentence at the end)
-- Sos un buen pibe, sos (You're a good kid, you are)
Jeringoso/Jerigoza (after each syllable adding "p" plus a the same vowel, a
little like Pig Latin) -- sipi = si (yes)
Rioplatense Spanish also includes differences in vocabulary which are not
related to any of these types of speech -- they are simply regionalisms,
such as "pollera" for "falda" (skirt), "nafta" for "gasolina" (gas), etc.
In English, the term "Spanish" refers to the official language of Spain and
most countries in Latin America. The English term "Castilian Spanish"
refers to the Spanish spoken in the Castile region of Spain. In English,
it's not accurate to use the term "Castilian Spanish" to refer to the
language of Argentina or any other Spanish American country.
It's true that Spanish is one language and even though there are regional
differences, Spanish-speakers can generally understand each other pretty
well. It's like with English -- someone from the US can understand most of
what a Brit or Aussie says, even though the accent is different and some
words are different. Most Spanish-speakers will understand that their
"fresa" (strawberry) is a "frutilla" in Argentina, for example. However,
when a Rioplatense begins using a lot of Lunfardo, Vesre, etc., most other
Spanish-speakers can no longer understand. This is where the linguistic
debate begins, since two dialects are usually defined as being of the same
language if they're mutually intelligible.
*Quilombo is an interesting word. It's an afro-brazilan term which
originally referred to communities of blacks in the middle of nowhere in
Brazil. Because these people were not Christians, they didn't have a lot of
the hang-ups about sex that Westerns did and their communities where
thought to be full of wild behavior, with few rules. So the word was used
to mean a house of prostitution and eventually came to mean an unorganized
place or a situation that was a mess. It's sometimes spelled kilombo.
Ok, I'll shut up now since this is a tango list and not a linguistics list.
Kate
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:18:08 EST
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: The language of Argentina
Kate,
Your observations appear to be on target. I would also like to add that the
"voseo" as well as the "yeism" (which is really more of an "sh" sound for
the "ll" (elle)used to be widely used (and probably still is)in Ecuador. I
also remember the Jeringozo used a lot as well as a form of vesre. I think
it's remarkable how certain modes of speech appear in various regions,
sometimes in isolated spots. I used to think that the voseo and "yeism" were
peculiar to Quiteqos until I heard Porteqos talk ;-)
Manuel
----Original Message Follows----
From: "kata @pitton.com" <kata @PITTON.COM>
Reply-To: "kata @pitton.com" <kata @PITTON.COM>
Subject: Re: The language of Argentina
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:09:41 -0600
The "voseo" (with an S) is used not just in Argentina (actually, it's not
used by all Argentineans), but also in parts of Uruguay, Paraguay, Central
America and by some people in Medellin, Colombia.
The "voseo" is only one of the many things that distinguishes Rioplatense
Spanish from other variations (a word more politically correct than
"dialects").
The "yeismo" -- pronouncing LL and the consonant Y like the "z" in "azure"
-- is also common in the region.
snip.......
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 12 Feb 2000 to 13 Feb 2000 (#2000-43)
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