Tango-L mailing list archive: Digest 3 Feb 2000 to 4 Feb 2000

The Tango-L mailing list archive

Digest from 3 Feb 2000 to 4 Feb 2000

Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 03:00:03 -0500 Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU> From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU> Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 3 Feb 2000 to 4 Feb 2000 (#2000-34)

There are 10 messages totalling 510 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Milonga del 900 2. CHICHO 3. Missing Apologies - "Rosi's Comments" 4. Fw: Re: Missing Apologies - "Rosi's Comments" 5. <No subject given> 6. women's tango shoes wanted 7. INFO PLEASE 8. Tandas (2) 9. Tanda Preferences

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:44:57 +0100 From: "Hans-Peter Gollnow/EDE/EUR/CPC @CPC" <Hans-Peter.Gollnow @EU.BESTFOODS.COM> Subject: Milonga del 900 Riachard wrote: Hi List: I'm wondering if anyone can tell me where to find a milonga tune called "Milonga de Noveciento". Thanks. Rich deSousa Milonga del 900 EB78 Homero Manzi (Carlos Gardel) DB50934 Molina, Horacio AN15254 Los Muchachos de Antes DJ222530 Bailando Milonga de Antes (Los Muchachos de Antes) EB57 Ciriaco Ortiz SN461764 Julio Sosa BM18917 Sexteto Tango That's all I know ........ Hans-Peter Gollnow

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:15:55 +0100 From: Rosella De Salvia <desalvia @AXCASP.CASPUR.IT> Subject: CHICHO Please, someone knows as I may to contact ( telephone number, e-mail adress, etc.), Mariano Frumboli, CHICHO for the friends. I know that now he is in Buenos Aires. Tank you very much Monica

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:07:43 -0500 From: Enrico Massetti <e_mass @EMAIL.MSN.COM> Subject: Re: Missing Apologies - "Rosi's Comments"

Original Message ----- From: Rosa Maria Perez <Rositango @AOL.COM> To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 2:20 AM Subject: Re: Missing Apologies - "Rosi's Comments" > Dear List: > > On February 1, 2000, I responded to the accusation of slander thru the proper > TANGO-L moderator. It was censored. > > I have sent direct messages to those that demanded my apology. I have > nothing else to say. If you wish to be sent a copy of the censored posting, > contact me directly. > > Sincerely, > > Rosi > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > REMINDER: Announcements of Tango events or products should be sent to > Tango-A and not to TANGO-L. To subscribe to Tango-A, send the > command "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU. > -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:12:35 -0500 From: Enrico Massetti <e_mass @EMAIL.MSN.COM> Subject: Fw: Re: Missing Apologies - "Rosi's Comments" Dear Rosi, I am looking forward to meeting you in person the next time I will visit Miami with my wife, and dance a tango with you, without ganchos, at least from me. It will be my best opportunity to apologize to you, I think it's time to bring some sense of reality in this sometimes crazy cyber-world, and dancing a tango together is the best way of doing so. Ciao, Enrico

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:07:07 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Nicol=E1s_Escandell?= <fabi @NETGATE.COM.UY> Subject: <No subject given> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF6E2E.6DBFCAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable signoff tango-L

=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF6E2E.6DBFCAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>signoff = tango-L</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF6E2E.6DBFCAA0--

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:52:47 -0700 From: Flora <Elizabeth.Flora @COLORADO.EDU> Subject: women's tango shoes wanted Greetings List, I would like information regarding how to get tango shoes. Here are the specs: > My feet don't fit into many common shoes, for I have a quad A heel and a narrow > instep with toes that spread out with their long selves...most often in a size > nine. To dance, I will see how an eight and a half feels, especially since a > heel is involved my little narrow heels will slide forward unless the shoe really > fits. My friend is looking for a low heel due to back problems. I want her to have something that is good for practicing, considering she is a very beginner. However, a nice bit of elegance would be most welcomed. No bright colors or sassy shimmers please. She needs to earn those fabulous gleamings with improved dancing. Smile. Sincerely, Elizabeth Flora Boulder, Colorado

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:47 +0000 From: "~DANCE MORE TANGO~" <24tango @BELLSOUTH.NET> Subject: INFO PLEASE Warm regards to the list, Could someone please tell me the name of the milonga that "El Indio" and Marianna dance to, and on what cd may I find it. Thank you, norma, ft. lauderdale

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:43:28 -0800 From: Steve Hoffman <DrSteveH @IBM.NET> Subject: Tandas Ruddy did a great job of explaining some of the history of the tanda. Ruddy consistently combines the best, the most interesting and danceable tango music I have heard anywhere. He emphasizes the technically better recordings, and I think tends more toward instrumental pieces than other DJs (which I like). Plus, he has the best sound system in the Bay Area - no one else in the same league. There are additional thoughts on the origin and purpose of the tanda, though, apart from the DJ's technical issues with playback technology over the decade, and individual DJs' pursuits, etc. This has to do with the social structure of milongas in Argentina, which is in many ways is still unchanged from the old, original social system. People who have spent sufficient time in Bs.As. know well the really dramatically different *sociology* of the milonga there: men and women are frequently not talking to each other at all, except at certain tables of foursomes; they are not infreqently positioned in very distinct sectors of the room surrounding the dance floor. It is not uncommon (ConfiteriaI Ideal is a perfect example) that a good half of the women are sitting, often alone, at micro tables in several area of that large hall (to the right after the ticket taker, and back in the right corner), while the majority of men are located (standing or seated) nearer the bar, along the left wall, etc. The distances are substantial, and there is almost zero verbal interchange going on with anybody. In most Bs.As. milongas, if you are not dancing, you sit with people of your same sex, or you sit or stand alone. There is some chatting at tables of more than two, but it is idle and more to attract others than it is the meeting of friends that we see in our Bay Area milongas. Then, consider the history. After figuratively and literally moving out of the bordello, when tango first became a socially more acceptable dance (there were Sunday afternoon tea dances, still are), young people and people with reputations to protect were either chaparoned to dances by relatives, or if adult, had to be very discrete in just how long one could even speak to the partner, before or after the dance. Even today, in the vast majority of cases, in Argentina, there is no significant talking before a dance (since it was asked for from 15 feet away - eyes), and, there is no significant talking, laughing, playing, or getting to know one another after the dance. People go right back to their original table that they hold (often reserved days in advance) the entire night. So what does this have to do with tandas? Go there and watch. It's very simple. In the more remote, less friendly, more meat-market, checking-out-the-dancers atmosphere of the Bs.As. milonga - or, in the conservative historical setting - men and women need overall structure to the dance sequences to know how to function socially, and how to get on and off the dance floor with the right time spent, and the right timing. Remember, in most cases, the next partership is formed with a remote, speechless, otherwise anonymous *asking* with the eyes and the subtle nods. You can't talk to the person, because, in a remarkable twist of fate considering everything, the men and the women are not talking to each other throughout the milonga, in Argentina. You must see the person, you must identify the person at the perfect time, make eye contact, and, in fact, it is an extremely hard thing to do, and not easy even for the Argentines, I would think. Then, (and very important), in Argentina, you almost always will dance the entire tanda with the same partner. This will be between 4 to 5 songs, almost never less than 4. To do less is practically to tell your partner that you didn't like him or her, or the dancing, and you're calling it quits early. So, the purpose of the tanda becomes clearer. The tanda is about several things, in the sociological sense: 1) Tanda guide the mass movement of people on and off the dance floor. They generate the critical break when many people have just returned to their seats and are potentially available to send out the antennas, and the eye contact, for the next round, the next pursuit , or the next try with a new partner. This must be done when most of the men, and most of the women, are simultaneously seated or posititioned so that the mating ritual choices can begin again. 2) Tandas (as several recent contributors have pointed out so well) generally set a tone right off the bat for the type of music that you will be listening to, or dancing to, during the next 10-15 minutes, or 4-5 dances. You can trust it. That was one of the original purposes. Consider the persons in the social settings mentioned above. When you meet this way, and are pretty much oblidged to dance a whole set, you can't be shifting from slow tangos to wild milongas. People came to favor the stability and predictablity of which we have heard recently, over the creativity or daring, or artistry which a more varied and novel mix might create. 3) Tandas are, ultimately, everything from letting all the racehorses loose at the same time, to a guaranteed and face-saving end to what could be either bad or great dance experience. In a society that functions like the milongas of Bs.As., there is very little flexibility in the timing of choices of songs to dance to. If you don't get a partner during either the cortina, or least the first song, they're mostly going to be gone for a about 3-4 dances more. I think our milongas in the USA are vastly different. At least in California, where I hang out (Ruddy's, Nora's, Becky's, even Broadway), it's like a small-town state fair most of the time. People are laughing, talking with up to score of diverse men and women, forking down huge quantities of Brie and french bread, walking around. You go over how people are doing, how was their week, what's new. Many people, I am convinced (at least I am one of them), have very meaningful conversations with people who are practically old friends. I have had profound exchanges with people in a regular basis. There are vastly better opportunities for people to strike up conversations with strangers, than in Bs.As. There are many more, dramatically more, opportunities for people to make introductions, and include new people, expand the group. As far as the dancing, there is an continuous, high-volume, ever-changing and unregulated migration of couples on and off the dance floor. You can wander over to people you've met and wiggle a dance if you're friendly. You can basically go off to dance any time, and after at least 2 dances, just merge back into the bit crowd by the refreshments, with no stress, no strain. It's better than most cocktail parties nowadays for sure, in terms of social intercourse and opportunity. We don't need tandas here for the same reasons as Bs.As., although that doesn't mean they can't be fantastic pieces of work, creative, showcasing themes, evolution, drama. Ruddy is the master. But, the ultimate reason they are organized in the way there are, with a uniform orchestra, tempo, or tmeatic content, is in the history, and the present, of the milongas of Bs.As. Respectfully submitted, Steve Hoffman

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:16:44 -0800 From: Cammie Strange <milonguera @DELLNET.COM> Subject: Tandas I just want to publicly thank Ruddy for his great description of the history of tandas; and also Steve Hoffman for his additional comments. As someone a little newer to tango, I have a few brief thoughts myself. One is that without tandas, which is usually the case with live music, people are often changing partners at different times, so there may be people who would really like to dance with each other, but never end up being between partners at the same time. Also, I have come to prefer not to dance (especially follow) milongas with people who know little or no milonga, so it is nice at times to know at the beginning of the set what dances will be in that set. Cammie Strange, Colorado

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:01:26 -0700 From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET> Subject: Re: Tanda Preferences Thanks to Keith for raising this subject, and to Madhav and Ruddy and Stephen & Steve for continuing it. Mood, Dance Style, Partner Energy, Group Energy Returning from Argentina, where the passion and rhythmic drive of the milongas is so powerful, all I can do is sit in a foul mood while DJs choose weak insipid tangos or put on a ranchera without noticing that it feels completely different from a real Tango Vals. Is it any wonder that N. Americans express a weak and insipid dance when even the DJs can't hear it!? Knowledge and familiarity with the music is so essential to argentine tango, yet outside of its birthplace people are so unfamiliar with it. One of the most important roles of the DJ is therefore to educate, and I really appreciate Keith's passion and feeling for the music, even if I haven't had the pleasure of hearing him choose it. It isn't enough just having a good flow from one song to the next (which Keith may certainly be very good at). You also need to manage the social energy of the evening which Ruddy described well. He hit it perfectly when he said: >A well put together tanda has an internal and an external rhythm. >As a set, it has to have cohesion but it should not be boring. >As part of the evening's entertaintment, it has to help the flow of >energy emanating from the dancers without whipping them up into >a frenzie or plunging them into a morass. A good tanda is bloody >hard to create and requires a lot of music, a lot of knowledge >about the music, and a keen eye for what is going on on the dance >floor. Tandas are like Italian sports cars. When done well, >they are great; when done poorly they are ghastly ;-) Add to the >equation the fact that most tango DJs are the DJ by virtue of >having more CDs or recordings than their clients *not* because >they have a particular talent or affinity to the music, and you >have a recipe for disaster. I did the music for two recent milongas. The first one was flat but the second one really rocked. The difference was partly the mix of dancers (if the right people show up it makes all the difference), but I have to take blame for not finding the right mood and energy with the music at the first milonga. At the second one each tanda followed the previous with more energy than then before. Even the set with Garua and Malena (mixing Laurenz and Demare), came at just the right time for people to Feel Deeply for a few songs. Mood. You need to a play few songs of a similar mood for people to explore it for a while. Dance Style. It isn't just mood, it is also style of dancing. A Pugliese set feels, dances and IS different from a Biagi or a Fresedo/Ray set. Mush them all together and you get mushy dancing, mushy emotions and mushy social energy. Partner Energy I feel the same as what I have noticed in Argentina: Dancers often wait for THAT music for dancing THAT style with THAT partner. You should see the ladies popping up like popcorn at Pavadita when they put on a waltz set and the eye game is really working. Ooh, and what satisfaction when she looks straight for you instead of her usual "alpha male". Social Energy. For this I am also very strongly in favor using tandas with little breaks or curtains, and not because I want to blindly follow practical, historical reasons. If you don't end the set and encourage the dancers to break, then the social energy gets mushy. People randomly flow on and off the dance floor. I happen to agree with the 3-5 songs with one partner. (Secret tip for wall-flower gringos: That older milonguera will take a chance on you if you politely ask her on the 4th song of a set. She knows she won't have to suffer long if you turn out to be bad.) >How do you like your Tandas? (If you like them). > >I ask this admitting that I seem to be from another planet on the >subject of Tandas. I know I am in a tiny minority of dancers/d.j.'s who >have developed their own opinions instead of accepting what is purported >to be "the way." ... >Well, actually, the reason I'm sending this to the list is that I expect >I might learn something I don't know about all this from the >well-informed list members who might choose to respond. > >But I'll still put my music mixes against anyone's, anytime - if dancers >are to judge it. > >Each song demands so much ... how can you just blithely expect people to >do it 3 more times right away? Why not just play La Yumba 4 times in a >row then? That would be a Tanda ... > >I do reserve the right to change my mind, and I promise that if I do, I >will detail the reasons for doing so in a new post. But don't hold your >breath for that to happen. Blue-faced dancers aren't likely to find a >partner easily. > >I can't wait to read posts trying to explain to me that 4 songs that >feel the same are the right way to go (I have an open mind, but I also >have a brain). (And I'd really love to hear an explanation from the >d.j.'s who will play SIX DeAngelis songs in a row because a CD is so >easy to roll!) ... >Keith Elshaw Tom Stermitz 2612 Clermont St Denver, CO 80207 Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors "On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory." (303) 388 - 2560 stermitz @ragtime.org http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/ http://www.tango.org/dance/

End of TANGO-L Digest - 3 Feb 2000 to 4 Feb 2000 (#2000-34) ***********************************************************