The Tango-L mailing list archive

Digest from 26 Aug 2000 to 27 Aug 2000

Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango          <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date:     Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:00:02 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango          <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject:  TANGO-L Digest - 26 Aug 2000 to 27 Aug 2000 (#2000-232)
There are 4 messages totalling 166 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Fwd: Re: Will the Real milonguero please stand up
  2. teacher bashing
  3. a pedagogical approach to tango
  4. Class





Date:    Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:23:56 -0700
From:    Neil Liveakos <neil_liveakos  @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Will the Real milonguero please stand up

Who else will be in Bs. As. over Thanksgiving? Let's
all meet at the same milonga to celebrate our holiday.
Will Argentine beef be OK instead of turkey?

Janis has already coached me that we can't wear our
standard black T shirts and black jeans.

We have to wear suits. ;-( Perhaps L del LA with have
to rent one? Does anyone from LA actually own a suit?

I'm confident that all the authentic milongueros wear
navy blue double breasted suits with wide pin stripes
and a white dress shirt, with white boxers underneath,
and a black fedora on top...

Am I right?

N from Atlanta

L del LA wrote

Very funny, Stella.

But it does remind me of something I'd really like
to know, because I plan to go to Argentina the last
two weeks in November (barring work & family
emergencies).
What are the accepted dress codes at the milongas, &
how can you tell what they are before you go?
I'm sure they're different at different places. At
places with mostly young people I'd guess they're
fairly informal. And I seem to recall an outdoor one
attended by a mostly older crowd that ran to
short-sleeved shirts for men, no tie, no coat. But I
suspect that a lot of(or most?) milongas expect more
formality.

Janis? Sergio? Anyone?

                 Larry de Los Angeles
                 http://home.att.net/~larrydla



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Date:    Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:29:49 -0400
From:    Manuel Patino <white95r  @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: teacher bashing

Randy, Carlos et al,

Pedagologically or not, the idea of always following the line of dance,
maintaining each's own balance, dancing to the music, etc, are the very
cornerstones of learning to dance tango. I never intended to suggest that I
endorse the teaching of tango as a "free form" or unstructured activity of
some sort. There are some basic parameters that constitute tango and these
must be taught. I do not believe however that tango is like an arithmetical
operation where exactitud is mandatory.
There have been long discussions (and diatribes) before on the list about
the development of a standard syllabus for teaching tango. I will not rehash
any of it, the archives are full of it. IMHO, there is not really one way to
systematically teach. There are as many ways as teachers and students. I
fully endorse the teaching of basics and the drilling of these basics by all
students and teachers.

Manuel





Date:    Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:11:42 +1000
From:    Sandy Smith <sg.smith  @QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: a pedagogical approach to tango

 >Carlos Lima opined that "if mathematics were taught as unpedagogically as
 >partner dances typically are, science as we know it would come to a dead
 >halt."

 >Manuel Patino then responded, stating his opinon that "Mathematics is not
 >dancing, particularly not social dancing. I'm eternally grateful for that.
 >There are no hard and fast rules for dancing as in mathematics," concluding
 >that "a pedagogical approach to (social) partner dancing is about as
 >practical as a pedagogical approach as teaching kissing or lovemaking. I
 >think rather that if social partner [dancing] was taught as pedagogically
 >as math, there would be even fewer social dancers than exist today."

 >& Randy Garrou commented that  "I
 >agree with Carlos that there is much that could be learned if certain
 >basics were routinely and pedagogically, if you will, reemphasized in the
 >context of each class session."

My take on all of this, as a professional educator:
The world is full of people from a range of disciplines & professions who
claim that whatever they do is so abstract & arcane that it cannot possibly
be taught & I have argued about this with architects, artists, therapists
etc. Now the same discussion has arisen with respect to tango.
My belief is that there are always things to do with TECHNIQUE (whether
that involves how to hold a paintbrush, establish rapport in a therapeutic
setting,  or how to hold one's body) which are critical to the successful
performance of a task. And this probably isn't any different with partner
dancing.
Secondly, there are issues to do with PROCESS which can be taught & learnt,
if the teacher is able to articulate & communicate them. One of my teachers
here was trained as a dance teacher & it is most informative to be around
her...she is able to identify & articulate subtle variations of movement
that better dancers & more famous teachers cannot.
Of course, the best teachers probably do these things without being aware
of them, and let's face it, they must be doing a reasonable job, as many of
you are paying out lots of $$$ for classes on a regular basis and keep
backing up for more.
And of course, our individualism is mixed in with mastery of technique to
create the variety that we know & love at milongas.
My overall point: yes tango can be analysed & taught in a systematic way;
the magic comes with how these things are deployed!

And I now await the hate mail that follows any posting I make  :)
sandy





Date:    Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:54:19 -0700
From:    weismann <weismann  @ALASKALIFE.NET>
Subject: Class

I had tried to send this earlier but got the word that I needed to reformat.
Hope this is okay this time.
First I'd like to say that Mark Celaya and some of you others out there in
tangoland have real class for not allowing yourselves to be drawn into the
negativism.
We signed on to this site so that we could learn to improve our tango.  Have
any of you ever wondered how they taught the whales, dolphins etc. how to do
all those tricks?  They do it by positive reinforcement.  When the animal
does an action that is what the trainer is looking for, they are immediately
rewarded by a sound that lets them know there is a treat coming for that
action.  Slowly but surely more is expected of them before they are
rewarded.  Those animals look like they are enjoying themselves.  People are
the same.  When we hear something positive about what we've done, we are
happy and want to do more good things.  If someone criticizes us we feel bad
about ourselves and as a result the joy of learning (and teaching in some
cases) new things is tarnished.
I sure would like to hear about some of the good/positive things that other
people are doing so that I could try to be like them.
Enjoy your tango!
Marion





End of TANGO-L Digest - 26 Aug 2000 to 27 Aug 2000 (#2000-232)
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