The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 14 Aug 2000
to 15 Aug 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 03:01:11 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 14 Aug 2000 to 15 Aug 2000 (#2000-220)
There are 8 messages totalling 286 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Paul Regensburger
2. Apology on styles, debater's style
3. Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time... (2)
4. Coca-Cola tango (2)
5. tango commercials
6. Tango Styles - Genealogy
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:54:30 -0400
From: Sara Ruderman <tangoesc @IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Paul Regensburger
A great loss occurred in the Tango community this weekend.
Paul Regensburger, of Canandaigua, NY, met with a fatal accident.
Paul was a great fan and supporter of the Tango. He was one of the first to start Tango in Rochester, NY. He was the originator of the first weekly Tango Salon. He traveled all over the world to find the Tango. He and his current wife Leanore met dancing tango.
He will be sorely missed.
Cards and condolences may be sent to
Mrs. Leanore Regensburger
157 Cliffside Drive
Canandaigua, NY 14424
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:10:12 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Apology on styles, debater's style
In a follow up posting on styles Andy Ungureano says:
>
None of those who answered (in private or public), except Carlos, understood
it like this. It makes a difference in technique and feeling if you dance
apilado (leaned on) or not.
<
Andy (and all in the L), I want to publicly apologize for, in essence, and
without fully realizing it, using your posting as a punching bag. (Note, I
never meant to be offensive to you personally, but reading my posting after a
couple of days, I admit, it is a bit rough.) But, if you should be so
magnanimous as I hope, you will accept, besides my apology, the possibility
that your discomfort served a purpose --- again, not planned or expected by
me.
I answered your 8 lines with 11K (really?) because you managed to squeeze
into those 8 lines an equal number of notions that I believe are in urgent
need of correction, that I think should be corrected before they become
entrenched in the already extensive tango mythology. Namely (paraphrasing to
highlight the issues that I do have an issue with):
- What I call milonguero and what I call classical salon are not really
different.
- There is a continuum of distances and an infinity of styles, so the
dichotomy is false.
(These two are not Made in Argentina , that I know; too obviously
untenable)
- In Europe people do not make the distinction.
(Heard/seen only a few times)
- If it is not what I call milonguero, it is choreographed.
- Susana Miller is teaching Tete s tango under the milonguero brand name.
(Heard/seen only once each)
- If it is not what I call milonguero it is show/fantasia/stage (not social).
- Only show offs dance what I call salon style in milongas.
(Two common claims by milonguero exclusivists, definitely Made in
Argentina )
- The qualifier milonguero is S.Miller s clever marketing ploy.
(Occasional claim by salon exclusivists, definitely Made in
Argentina )
As to the last, perhaps Susana Miller deserves it, under the headline of a
taste of your own medicine (medicine = conveniently re-writing history).
Perhaps you wrote what for me is an 8 line debate canon packing 8 big shells
as a way of sparking a useful discussion, not really to express your own
opinion. If so, I think you succeeded. Again I apologize for my clumsy
intervention --- or intermediation, perhaps. In a message to the same
moderator that spoke with you, I remarked that irony, if not gratuitously
offensive, is sometimes justified, where gentler methods have failed
repeatedly. I also indicated that my irony was not really directed at you,
but at those who I think should know better than help inventions take hold.
Please believe me, it is exactly true. I also predicted, and I quote: First,
I do not believe this thread will even continue, let alone flare up . So I am
a lousy prophet. It continued, I believe in a very useful way, and it did not
flare up, so,
Cheers.
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:26:40 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
Brief corrections to my posting on styles of last night. I wrote almost
exclusively from memory, and mine is not great, so I am sure there will be
others.
"Lampazo" is also an alias, the real name being Jose' Vasquez.
Firpo is not doing anything there. It was a web look up mistake by my
"research assistant".
Also I let one probable error pass (even though I caught it before posting),
because I had to get going. Also, I liked the error better than the truth. I
am pretty sure that by 1940 an "English technique" codified tango (so to
speak) was already in existence, though not probably for long. How eccentric
(or funny) it was at that time I have no idea. This is all easy to check, but
I do not have the sources handy. Just wanted to notify those who care about
accuracy.
Cheers.
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:53:48 -0400
From: Christina Burtis/HQ/IFC <Cburtis @IFC.ORG>
Subject: Coca-Cola tango
Dear List,
Yes, there is such a thing. Check out the new Coca-Cola commercial.
There is about three seconds of Argentine Tango mid-way through.
Surprisingly, it is a lovely three seconds. :)
Kind regards,
Christina
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:10:33 GMT
From: Erica Sutton <ericaatwork @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Coca-Cola tango
I saw the Coke commercial about 3 weeks ago (looks very similar the the
Terra.com one with a tango dancer image) and have yet to see it again. In
the same evening I also saw one for Thermasilk heat-activated shampoo (?? or
something like that) that had a graphically-flame-haired woman
tango-dueling with a dragon-hairdryer. It was very stylized, but I even seem
to remember that the woman had on shoes very close to tango shoes.
I have not seen either one again ~ and wondered when someone on the List
would confirm that I was not hallucinating tango commercials ~ I was
actually reduced to watching the commercials for a week or so there, trying
to catch them again!
Erica
Chicago
tango @argentinamail.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:02:50 +0100
From: Bruce Stephens <bruce @CENDERIS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
Carlos Lima <amilsolrac @YAHOO.COM> writes:
[...]
> Also I let one probable error pass (even though I caught it before
> posting), because I had to get going. Also, I liked the error better
> than the truth. I am pretty sure that by 1940 an "English technique"
> codified tango (so to speak) was already in existence, though not
> probably for long. How eccentric (or funny) it was at that time I
> have no idea. This is all easy to check, but I do not have the
> sources handy. Just wanted to notify those who care about accuracy.
I'd guess so. There's a USENET article that people might be
interested in: <URL:http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=518396717>. It
suggests that the tango became known in Paris 1908-1910, so I'd think
it likely that some time before 1940 it would have been taught in
England.
Also, the wonderful resource
<URL:http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html> provides a few
hits for a search on "tango". That's interesting because it's a
collection of American ballroom dance instruction manuals 1490-1920.
The hit I had a quick look at appears to be 1914. Probably there are
earlier references there too.
"Through its own beauty, however, the tango is destined to survive all
the unjust criticism which has been leveled against it, and when it
comes to be properly understood, as I hope it soon will be, it will, I
venture to predict, be as much respected as the waltz, which our
grandmothers used to dance with so much grace."
From "The tango and the new dances for ballroom and home"
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:30:04 -0700
From: billie hill <astorlover @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: tango commercials
There is a fun ad on the website www.adcritic.com.
Search for Tango. You might also be able to find the
Coca Cola one and others.
Billie
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 01:30:08 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Tango Styles - Genealogy
My impression is as follows, other might have a different opinion.
My impression is that there is ONE Original Argentine Tango.
Tango born in a nebula around 1870, a hybrid of Habaneras, Milongas,
Candombes and Tangos Andaluces.
Later on it went to Europe and North America. There ballroom dances were
different; a mirror choreography for man and woman, walking heel-toe "like
in normal walk", stepping on every beat of the music, etc. The Argentine
Tango was changed in that direction, so that it could be like the other
dances, American and International Tango were born.
In Argentina in the meantime the Original Tango had to change also in order
to be acceptable by the "decent" part of society. It lost most of the
"sexually explicit moves", it changed its lyrics. It was necessary to
create new places where tango could be danced without the need to travel to
the suburbs.
The cabaret replaced the brothel, the bars and the gambling houses . The
dancing area became luxurious, illuminated and decorated according to
European fashions. Dancers wore Tuxedos and spoke French. El Pernaud and
red wines were replaced by champagne. The Indian and mulatto ladies became
French, the back room (trastienda) for private encounters became "la
Garconiere". The first Cabaret located in Plaza Grand Bourg, was built
surrounded by gardens where it was possible to have dinner outdoors. El
Armenonville was already famous by 1913.
Tango slowly became more elegant. It acquired different styles. The one
danced in the suburbs became "orillero" "canyengue"
(Orillero means belonging to the border of the city, outside the city -
Canyengue is a word of uncertain etymology, probably from the African
language Quimbunda "ngenge" meaning useless, low social class Or perhaps a
mixture of the words candombe and yongo; meaning "tired like" in reference
to the way tango used to be danced.
The one danced in Downtown became Tango Salon.
Tango being highly improvised can acquire an infinite number of variations.
Theoretically every couple could have its own style and most of the time
they do.
From this Salon Style evolved the Milonguero ( also called club, confiteria,
apilado, del centro, etc.) adapted to dancing in crowded floors.
From this Salon Style evolved the Nuevo Tango ( as danced by Salas, Chicho,
etc.).
In summary there is only one Argentine Tango which is highly improvised and
may acquire different styles.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 14 Aug 2000 to 15 Aug 2000 (#2000-220)
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