The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 11 Aug 2000
to 12 Aug 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 03:00:06 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 11 Aug 2000 to 12 Aug 2000 (#2000-217)
There are 9 messages totalling 427 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Melingo
2. FW: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
3. About Tango in NYC
4. Types of Milongas in Buenos Aires
5. More about Melingo
6. new URL
7. Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
8. Tango Styles
9. Instruction while social dancing
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 00:55:56 -0700
From: Mark Celaya <mark-joan-tango @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Melingo
Silke Engesser inquired about recordings by Daniel Melingo. There are 2
titles that my supplier in Buenos Aires has listed: "TANGOS BAJOS"
(mentioned by Silke) & ''MELINGO".
Daniel Melingo is a contemporary tango singer with a very deep, throaty
voice & a sensuous, earthy style. He is very unique to say the least. I
am beginning to receive many inquiries regarding him, even as far as
Alaska.
Regards,
Mark Celaya
http://home.att.net/~mark-joan-tango
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:15:06 +0200
From: Hangleiter Ralph <Ralph.Hangleiter @HYGIENE.SCA.SE>
Subject: FW: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
Original Message-----
From: Hangleiter Ralph
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 8:43 PM
To: 'andy Ungureanu'
Subject: RE: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
Hi,
I wouldn't say that in Europe nobody makes a difference
between the styles. Of course you don't have things
advertised like "salon style milonga". You just go and
dance, but you surely notice that in different cities
you dance differently. I would say that in those cities
which have "old" tango-community, people dance more
milonguero style.
The difference might be that there is no big labelling of
styles. And I haven't seen people saying "This is it and
nothing else!" and trying to impose one style only.
It fortunately stays a matter of personal taste.
Enough said, so come on you silent Europeans, contradict me
or tell your experience...
Cheers
Ralph
> -----Original Message-----
> From: andy Ungureanu [mailto:Andy.Ungureanu @T-ONLINE.DE]
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:57 PM
> To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
>
>
> Eugenia Spitkovsky schrieb:
> :
> > knows about it. In addition, Ruben has observed tango development in
> > Germany, where he taught tango for years. Chan and I asked Ruben a
> > similar question: What do you think is the future of tango
> DANCING in
> > the US? Ruben told us first he was not certain because of
> his experience
> > in European communities. When he first started working with tango
> > dancers in Germany he thought that Argentine tango was
> dying. Show tango
> > in a very bad interpretation of social dancers was
> predominant. This was
> > several years ago. Now European communities dance what we would call
> > milonguero style. They evolved!
> >
> > Monaloca(?) pointed out that milonguero and salon are two different
> > dances. Ruben showed us several videos and discussed in
> detail dancing
> > styles that changed dramaticly with time: knees bend or not, body
> > position, cross, etc. You are right- sometimes different time period
> > looked like absolutely different dance. Evolving...still
> Dear List,
> I followed the discussion about style names in the US and I wonder. In
> Europe nobody makes any difference between "milonguero" and "salon".
> There is a difference between salon (social, improvised) and show
> (choreographed). People trying to impress other people dance "show" in
> the milonga.
> There is salon with more or less distance or not distance at all.
> As far as I heard about, some (important) people in BA think that the
> name of "milonguero" is only a marketing gag of Susanna
> Miller teaching
> the style of Tete.
> Any opinions about this?
> Andy
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
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>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:19:36 EDT
From: Dario Mendiguren <C21DARI @AOL.COM>
Subject: About Tango in NYC
Dear LIst
I'm retransmitting here a post that Izabella was trying to submit and
because of technical reasons she was not able to do.
Have happy tangos Dario
Dear Tangueros,
I wrote on July 27 re: my friends' tango encounter in New York.
Due to being slightly mis-informed I didn't give accurate information.
This should be:- their bad episode happened on Friday at la Belle
Epoque and not on Saturday as previously stated; their positive
experience was linked to the Milonga hosted by Danel and Maria on
Saturday at 1845 Broadway.
I feel it is necessary to point this out as I do not wish for any shadow
of doubt to hover over Danel and Maria's good host names.
Regards to all,
Izabella >>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:43:54 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Types of Milongas in Buenos Aires
The August 2000 issue of El Tangauta in Buenos Aires provides a description
of the types of milongas by characteristics.
Salon de Baile
An atmosphere especially for dancing, predominately elegant attire, tables
with tablecloths, where tango codes are strictly respected, where they
listen to tangos of the 40s with breaks of latin music. Older public with
intermediate to high level of dancing. Examples: Almagro, El Arranque,
Gricel, Italia Unita, Los Andes, Maracaibo, Salon Canning, Viejo Correo,
Club Juvenil, among others.
Confiteria Bailable
They have many of the same characteristics of the Salones de Baile, but also
have a restaurant. The public is more varied with lots of groups.
Examples: Club del Golf, El Morocco, La Ideal, La Nostalgia and Sonemos,
among others.
Club de Barrio
The floors are basketball courts or the club restaurant; the caterer can be
the dance organizer; predominantely attended by the neighborhood families
and
married couples; the music is more varied. Examples: Circulo Trovador, Club
de Amigos, Club Fulgor, Club Sirio Libanes; El Balcarce, El Berretin, Sin
Rumbo, Akarense, Sunderland, among others.
Milonga Joven
Informal atmosphere, young public, variety of dress. Live music and dance
exhibitions. More relaxed standards, more diverse level of dancing; plan to
listen to Piazzolla, some rock 'n' roll as well as salsa and cumbia.
Examples: El Viento Norte, La Estrella, La Viruta, La Trastienda, Los
Pebetes, Parakultural.
5th year No. 71
www.eltangauta.com
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:07:28 -0700
From: Mark Celaya <mark-joan-tango @JUNO.COM>
Subject: More about Melingo
Daniel Melingo was one of Argentina`s most famous rock musician/singers
for many years. His father was a tango musician in the 1940`s era. A few
years ago, Daniel began singing classic tangos from that era. He has a
very unique style complimented by his very deep, "throaty", sensuous
voice.
His first tango CD is called: "TANGOS BAJOS". He is backed up by some
fantastic tango musicians creating a strong, "earthy" sound. It is
available for $16.95 + $3.20 shipping.
Melingo will also have a new CD (Tango) release soon, called "UFA!''
Cheers,
Mark Celaya
http://home.att.net/~mark-joan-tango
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:21:03 -0500
From: Chris Humphrey <humphrey @MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: new URL
For those of you who plan to visit Austin, or for
those of you who have linked Austin Tango
Connection in your website, please make a note of
our new URL.
Thx,
chris humphrey
Austin Tango Connection
512.480.9899
http://www.austin360.com/community/groups/Austinta
ngo/
Bailas comos sos -- You dance who you are
-- Nito Garcia d)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 00:39:33 +0200
From: andy Ungureanu <Andy.Ungureanu @T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: Styles in Europe (Re: Evolution takes time...
Carlos Lima wrote about 11 KB answering my 8 lines. The moderator asked
me not to answer in kind.
I hope I will not. At least it seems to be a critical subject.
I didn t claim there is no difference in styles. Noone of those who
answered (in private or public), except Carlos, understood it like this.
It makes a difference in technique and feeling if you dance apillado
(leaned on) or not.
The point is the term "milonguero". If I say "chair" to 100 people, 100
people imagine the same piece of furniture. If I say "milonguero" to 100
tango dancers in BA or in Europe they will imagine 120 different
things. Out of 100 readers of Tango-L maybe 60 will imagine a very
close embrace, the other 40 will start a ferocious discussion whether
this is the wright way of dancing or not.
We need accepted terms to communicate. But we cannot define terms,
especially not spanish words which are not accepted in the same sense by
the majority of the native speakers.
If people leaving in BA will report: "The average native tango dancer
calls his way of dancing milonguero and not salon", I will suddenly
change my mind!
Happy Tangos and enjoy the music!
Andy
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:24:34 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Tango Styles
Andy Ungureanu schrieb (wrote):
"If people leaving in BA will report: "The average native tango dancer
calls his way of dancing milonguero and not salon", I will suddenly
change my mind!"
He also quotes something reported by Eugenia as she heard it from Ruben :
"Now European communities dance what we would call
> milonguero style. They evolved!"
*Dear Andy the truth is that the average Portenio dancer makes a definite
distinction between Salon and Milonguero Style.
I have reported the differences between the two, their characteristics and
the clubs where each style is danced in Buenos Aires; I will reprint one of
the notes at the end.
I have danced with visiting European ladies in Buenos Aires that either
dance Milonguero or Salon. Some seemed to only know milonguero and were
unable to dance Salon others only new salon and had difficulty dancing
milonguero.
It would be interesting to know what style do you dance.
**I reproduce one of my previous notes on this subject.
Subject: Milonguero Vs. Salon Style
Milonguero Style, close embrace, club style, tango apilado, confiteria style
generally refer to the same dancing form.
It is a style developed to dance in crowded places, in close embrace that is
not disturbed during the dance, with simplified choreography proper to dance
in a small area. The dance is rhythmic with syncopations, the diminished
external beauty is compensated by the intense inner feeling. It can be
danced to any orchestra but Fresedo or D'Arienzo, for instance, are
preferred. Danced in many places in downtown Buenos Aires and in Europe.
This style is favored by teachers like Susana Miller, Tete and Silvia.
Tango Salon refers to a more elegant way of dancing, the body more erect in
contrast to the canyengue that required more flexion of knees and waist. A
form very rich in choreography. The dance alternates a close embrace with a
certain degree of separation of the dancing partners to allow turns and
figures.
This style is favored by the great majority of instructors, Osvaldo Zoto,
Nito and Elba, Rodolfo Cieri, Puppy Costello, Mingo Pugliese, Carlos y
Alicia, Jorge y Aurora Firpo to name a few.( also, Todaro, Lampazo, Copes,
etc.). It may be danced to any orchestra but some such as Di Sarli or
Pugliese could be preferred.
Today in Buenos Aires one can find Salon Style (also called Villa Urquiza in
reference to the city quarter where it is danced), at Clubs Sin Rumbo,
Sunderland, etc. Milonguero in many places including downtown, Salon
Canning, Almagro, etc. and also Nuevo Tango, in many clubs danced mostly at
the end of the night when there is more room. Nuevo tango is sometimes
danced to "non-danceable music" such as Piazzola or Raul Garello.
The preference of Styles may vary in other cities of Argentina.
In Mar del Plata for instance Milonguero Style is almost completely absent.
Rosario (residence of Orlando Paiva) shows preference for Salon Style. etc.
Milonguero is a person that goes dancing to the Milongas assiduously,
however Milonguero Style refers to a distinct form of dancing tango. This
style was developed out of necessity: crowding in the dancing halls of
Buenos Aires. This situation usually does not exist in the USA.
Those that learn Salon Style first, will be able to dance any other form
later on with certain ease as they will learn all the tango techniques. The
ones that learn Milonguero first, on the other hand, will learn a very
limited number of moves and techniques; they will have a terrible time
trying to learn to dance salon and most likely will remain attached to the
only form they will know, milonguero.
There was no intention to prevent the American Student from learning the
Apilado form, it happens that most of the well known instructors of
Argentine Tango dance Salon. There are very few that teach the Milonguero,
which is very easy to learn.
To dance in close embrace is not an exclusive element of Milonguero style,
Salon is also danced in close embrace; example: Carlos Copello who becomes
separated very seldom while dancing the most pure Salon form.
For those that travel to Buenos Aires, if you wish to dance Salon go to
clubs where that form is danced; if you wish to dance milonguero go to halls
where that form is danced.
If you are in a club for Milonguero style do not attempt to dance Salon
because there is a great chance that the other person will not know how to
dance that way. Further more, even if she/he knows they will resent, dislike
dancing in any other way as they are in that particular club because they
prefer that style. After you attempt to dance Salon in a milonguero place
nobody else will dance with you. The Salon dancers on the other hand
generally do not mind dancing Milonguero from time to time.
Summary: Milonguero, Salon, are two different forms to dance tango.
Milonguero is adapted to dancing in crowded spaces but Salon also may be
done where there is no room to move. Milonguero is done in close embrace,
Salon may be done in either close or open embrace.
You should do the form you like the most, or as in my case, either of them,
depending on the occasion, the place, the music the lady.
You should not dance Milonguero only because people in Buenos Aires have
crowded floors, if you do not; mostly when most of you dance in Buenos Aires
two or three weeks out of the whole year and the rest in the USA where there
is plenty of room to dance.
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:55:00 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Instruction while social dancing
Somebody (a lady) wrote:
" However, my experience has been, that comments come
> from poorer partners, who have an inflated view of
> their own tango ability. Having been a ballroom and
> social dance teacher for many years,I am troubled by
> this apparent rudeness.
>
> Wouldn't it be better if we all just danced at
> milongas, and left instruction to the experts
> in the classroom? Why can't we be more generous
> with whomever we dance?"
Most people will agree that while dancing tango one is doing many things
except *talking*.
The good leader will dance well with any follower, of any dancing skill
without talking, without inducing any situation where the lady will notice
that she made a mistake or that she did not follow a lead.
He will start walking straight ahead and never lead a cross if he feels that
she does not know that she should lock her left foot in front. As the dance
proceeds he will induce the lady to be more confident and start to relax her
tension. Now he will exhibit his mastery in leading skills and very slowly
he will introduce some new moves. At the end the lady will depart feeling
that she had a great experience dancing with a great dancer, a smile of
satisfaction in her face. No words are necessary.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 11 Aug 2000 to 12 Aug 2000 (#2000-217)
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