The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 7 Aug 2000
to 8 Aug 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 03:00:40 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 7 Aug 2000 to 8 Aug 2000 (#2000-213)
There are 3 messages totalling 143 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Instruction While Social Dancing (2)
2. Distance and Posture was: Instruction While Social Dancing
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 21:21:27 +0900
From: astrid <astrid @RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Instruction While Social Dancing
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sa, Na-W, Na-C, Na-E, Misc <tangomaniac @JUNO.COM>
>
> . Dancers think they are moving straight but they really aren't. One foot
goes diagonally to the right and the other goes diagonally to the left.
They dance like a pool ball ricocheting off one side of a pool table to the
other. In my
> situation, since the woman doesn't collect her weight onto one foot
because her feet are so far apart, we can't move nor can she do ochos nor
> the cross. Despite my best efforts, I can't keep her in front of me. I
have
> to say something because we can't move and both of us know it. I will
> whisper "Brush your knees so you go straight back and not diagonally." I
> rather say that than call attention to ourselves not being able to move
by stopping in the middle of the line of dance holding
> up traffic.
> While not ideal, I'm trying to make the best of a very bad situation.
> At Daniel Trenner's Tango Locura in Montreal, I had a chance to talk to
Diego DiFalco. He told me that his first 1.5 years of tango was walking
> > AND NOTHING ELSE!!
>
I wish more men who start giving verbal directions during the dance
understood the tango as well as you do. In my experience men who understand
how the tango works don' t need to do this while some beginners say one
thing with their hands and body while having something different in mind,
and then try to force the desired result by supplementing their lead wit
verbal directions.
I highly respect dancers' ability to recognize their own mistakes, and will
not refuse such a beginner when he asks me to dance, because I think they
have the potential for fast progress. But I do not enjoy those who will
blame the woman for not stepping with the very leg she is standing on etc..
Now maybe you could help me with a woman's problem:
What should I say to/do with a guy who insists on dancing close but dances
upright with a flat chest, banging his knees into mine every so often and
stepping on my feet occasionally when I am not careful to avoid him. Or
worse putting his arm so low around my back that we are belly to belly so
that I couldn't get my legs out of his way even if I tried? I think to
acquire the right posture takes time, but I have seen some leaders who don't
seem to realise what this posture should be, and still want to dance this
style at every milonga they go to.
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:57:01 +0200
From: andy Ungureanu <Andy.Ungureanu @T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Distance and Posture was: Instruction While Social Dancing
astrid schrieb:
> Now maybe you could help me with a woman's problem:
> What should I say to/do with a guy who insists on dancing close but dances
> upright with a flat chest, banging his knees into mine every so often and
> stepping on my feet occasionally when I am not careful to avoid him. Or
> worse putting his arm so low around my back that we are belly to belly so
> that I couldn't get my legs out of his way even if I tried? I think to
> acquire the right posture takes time, but I have seen some leaders who don't
> seem to realise what this posture should be, and still want to dance this
> style at every milonga they go to.
Well, this is your problem, but it is not you needing help, the leader
is the one.
A leader should not insist on any kind of distance. He may propose
something, but the lady decides if they dance close or not. At the
begining of the dance she decides it by putting her arm around my neck
(close) or her hand on my upper arm (distant). While dancing I "propose"
a greater distance with less tension in my right arm and moving my hand
from the right side of her back to the midle or the left side. She
agrees moving her hand from the neck to the upper arm or not. While
dancing with some distance I propose a closer distance (after a stop or
a turn) in holding her slightly closer. She agrees or she keeps her hand
on the upper arm with increased pressure, this means "its too close for
me".
Pulling her towards me is not dancing, its use of force.
For the special case, I think you should tell him how you feel. You may
explain him further, he should keep his center of gravity over his toes,
not over the heels. If he doesnt understand, well this is his problem
now.
Happy tangos
Andy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:58:48 -0400
From: "Sa, Na-W, Na-C, Na-E, Misc" <tangomaniac @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Instruction While Social Dancing
Astrid replied to my message and wanted to know how to deal with some
problems:
First, make clear to the man, it's OUR problem. If you apologize or
accept responsibility for the problem, he has no reason to change. If
he's not responsive, don't dance with him again because the problem won't
be solved.
>
>"Now maybe you could help me with a woman's problem:
>Q.What should I say to/do with a guy who insists on dancing close but >
dances> upright with a flat chest, banging his knees into mine every so >
often and> stepping on my feet occasionally when I am not careful to
avoid > him"
A. First check to be sure you're taking a big step backwards. If you are
and your knees continue to bang, it probably means his foot is moving
before his chest, trying to occupy the same space as your foot. Tell the
man "it's not working. Our knees shouldn't be banging. I feel your knee
before I feel your chest move." If he blames you without accepting any
responsbility, finish the dance, say "good bye" and tag him as "Do not
dance with again." (This is the medical equivalent of "Do not
resuscitate." ) Other women are probably having the same problem.
Q. Worse putting his arm so low around my back that we are belly to
belly so that I couldn't get my legs out of his way even if I tried? I
think > to> acquire the right posture takes time, but I have seen some
leaders > who don't> seem to realise what this posture should be, and
still want to dance > this> style at every milonga they go to.
A. Tell him you can't feel his chest because his grip is not allowing you
to bend at the waist and bring your weight forward so that you're on the
balls of your feet. You can't feel his lead. If you can't feel his lead,
it will be a miserable dance for you.
To be fair to men, very few are in touch with their bodies and don't
realize they are causing discomfort for the woman. While I have other
problems, women do me a BIG favor with their feedback. Hopefully, other
men will take advantage of the information to improve.
Hope this helps.
Michael
End of TANGO-L Digest - 7 Aug 2000 to 8 Aug 2000 (#2000-213)
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