The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 17 Apr 2000
to 18 Apr 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:00:08 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 17 Apr 2000 to 18 Apr 2000 (#2000-105)
There are 4 messages totalling 259 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Competitions
2. line of dance
3. LOD (LINE OF DANCE)
4. Competitions and Randy our Friend
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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:48:31 EDT
From: Randy Pittman <MailAlive @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Competitions
Hola Milongueros y Tangueras:
Life is competition. Everybody reading this message has competed and WON the
RACE of LIFE. You were one of the millions of sperms that competed to
impregnate the egg inside the mother that gave you birth. ;-)
Every one of us competed for our mothers' and fathers' attention, yes we
competed against our own brothers or sisters. Those that were in a only
children family competed against the TV, Newspaper, or the many other
distractions of life that take the attention of their parents or the people
that raised them away from the children.
Through our childhood years we competed with our peers for everything,
friendships, sports, teachers' attention, girlfriends, boyfriends and how
much more?
As for adults, the competition for jobs, relationships and again how much
more competition? EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS A COMPETITION.
> Judy wrote
>First of all, I think the Idea of
>competition in the arts is ludicrous.
As ludicrous as it seems to you, you'll have to go back the beginning of the
Arts when the second caveman made his drawings on his cave walls. I believe
that is where we will find the beginning of the competition of the arts. It
hasn't stopped since that time.
>Judy continues
>As I said in my first note, I am aware that tango
>competitions existed in Argentina. I just don't know anything about them.
>Trust me, Copes and Nieves did not have to win any contest to become the
>greatest dancers of the era.
>Perhaps someone will let me know how these contests
>were held. How were they judged?
For Judy and everybody that wants to ask that question, come to Miami on
Memorial Day Weekend and ask Juan Carlos himself. You will be able to go
straight to the horses mouth, HOW and WHY? Why would Copes Pugliese and all
the other masters participate in a Tango competition?
It always surprises me when someone does not want to participate in something
such as this Tango competition, but they object to anybody else
participating. Why is that?
Judy, after meeting you first in Ohio at the 96 Tangofest and later at my 2nd
event on Miami Beach, you and Jon were great people to meet. The friendships
made at these events are something to cherish and remember. I'm very
surprised how you feel about this subject. I thought you were a live and let
live type of person.
>From Judy
>don't be surprised if you see the American
>Ballroom Assoc. take over Argentine tango
We went thru this on TANGO-L last year. If you were not a member of TANGO-L
last year before Feb - May 1999 you missed the discussion. The ballroom
world has become involved. There will be for the second time the US
qualifying event for the world Argentine Tango championship at the 4th Annual
USTC Tango Fantasy on Miami Beach, and on Labor Day week the finials At the
USDSC Championships
At last years 1999 IDO Tango finals held at the United States DanceSport
Championships, there were three styles of Tango in the competition. American
Hybrid Tango, a European style of Tango and the authentic Argentine Tango.
The first three places in the finals went to the true Argentine Tango dancers.
Had the USTC not been involved last year, there would not have been any real
Argentine Tango at the IDO World Argentine Tango Competition. The only
competitors that danced what we call "Argentine Tango" (as it is, and has
always been danced in Argentina), came from the US dancers from our USTC
event and Guillermo and Fernanda Merlo, they were only representatives from
Argentina.
Had the USTC not joined the party, the world would be seeing the 1999 IDO
World Argentine Tango champions representing something, that nobody from
Argentina would agree was Tango. If we do not want Argentina Tango
misrepresented, then we have to be part of it.
The problem these so-called A.T. dancers have is that they really think they
are dancing Argentine Tango. Somebody taught and told them that they were
learning Argentine Tango. How are they to know the difference if they do not
see the real thing?
If we stay in our own little shell and do not participate in life with the
rest of the world they will go on without us. Isolation is not the answer.
Guillermo & Fernanda Merlo showed the world what Tango was, and yes the
crowds were brought to their feet for what could have been the longest
standing ovation I've ever personally witnessed at one of these Ballroom
events.
I know most professional ballroom dancers are looking for the authentic A. T.
and because of last years IDO event and the continuing efforts made by the
many organizers of Tango around the world. THE REAL ARGENTINE TANGO WILL
CONTINUE TO GROW.
Live and let live,
Randy
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:38:19 -0700
From: ramiro garcia <ramiro9 @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: line of dance
I have danced in relatively spacious venues with
intenmperate, inconsiderate leaders racing across the
LOD, others indulging in a more subdued sort of
brownian motion, bouncing randomly in every which way,
wandering around the room in a random walk.
I found it a stressful, unpleasant experience.
I have also danced in fairly crowded places where
people were respectful of the line of dance, they were
aware of space, no wild boleos or giant molinetes when
there was no room for them.
That was a great experience. You find yourself dancing
not just with your partner, but with everyone else in
the room. All are aware of each other, all connected,
all caring about each other's space and well being.
ramiro
--- Suzanne Gamble <Gg1898 @AOL.COM> wrote:
> Hi list--
>
> ...it
> is a great pleasure to dance with someone who keeps
> moving in the line of dance and respects the floor.
> Our movement ...with ... the flow of the crowd
> gives me a secure feeling, and once that
> foundation is in place,
> its easy to stop thinking and just dance.
> I once saw the dancers on a crowded floor move
> through a whole song with no collisions...
>
> ...
>
> Gigi Gamble
>
=====
ramiro garcia
ramiro9 @yahoo.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:24:59 +0000
From: "~DANCE MORE TANGO~" <24tango @BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: LOD (LINE OF DANCE)
Hmmmmm, I found the excerpt below very interesting:
As was pointed out to me in a private message, the traffic
patterns
around the dance floor vary by dance hall in Buenos Aires,
depending,
in part, on the style that is taught there. At some milongas,
the
traffic is very traditional. At others, populated by young
dancers,
the traffic continues to move counterclockwise, but it moves
much more
slowly because the dancers are doing more giros and other
circular
figures.
I found that the traffic patterns in general followed LOD, not
necessarily because of styles , but has to do with amount
of people on the dance floor. Generally, where older milongueros
dance and the floor is very crowded, it is very civilized and if a bump
should occur, very polite apologies are exchanged.
However at one of the less crowded milongas frequented by the "belly button
crowd" I find it to be chaos. It is as though none of their teachers
taught
them LOD. On tuesday night at Almagro I heartily suggest you not
wear good shoes and consider wrapping your ankles in something
protective. If the uneven floor does not trip you, you will certainly
feel someones heel taking a bite out of your ankle.
regards to the list,
norma
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:27:59 MST
From: Judy Margolis <tangomas @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Competitions and Randy our Friend
Randy
First of all, I wrote the notes (Jon Martin). If our comments are signed
"Jon y Judy", I wrote it. If they are signed "Judy y Jon" then Judy wrote
it. I did not bring up the issue of competition, I just responded with my
opinion. As passionate as I may be about my opinions and beliefs, they
remain just that opinion and belief.
Judy and I are both live and let live people. I hope I have not said others
should or should not involve themselves in competitions. Nor should I have
I said that anyone should boycott or otherwise become active in any way in
this regard. My opinions come from me and happen to be shared by Judy. I
wish nothing but the greatest success for you and your tango week (as you
know Judy and I will be there). I also wish you success for your
competition. The tango list is a forum is for opinion as well as fact.
Some like it hot and some like it cold. What can I say? My opinions will
probably wont change. Argentina in the past and present is a different
culture and climate for tango than the U.S. And competitions there may have
a different impact on the dance than I think it will have here in the U.S.
Ballroom teachers are now sponsoring Argentine teachers, and soon (I see it
happening now) ballroom teachers will be teaching argentine tango, and they
will start competitions, and they will define what is right and what is
wrong for american argentine tango dancers. They will have to because
that's how they work. You may or may not agree to their rules, but if you
compete in a ballroom competition don't you have to dance a certain way to
score well? Judy and I attended a workshop taught by Sandor this weekend.
We liked him a lot. He demonstrated a debujo with the inside of the foot in
constant contact with the floor(with the sole of the shoe slightly exposed
to the outside). How would you mark that in a competition. Plus or Minus?
I say live and let live, do it any way you want and enjoy the dance. Just
remember, line of dance, other people on the floor, and a woman in your arms
who should mean more to you than any competition.
I Look forward to seeing you and all our friends in Miami, randy. I am sure
your competition will be a big success. And I am truly sorry if my opinions
have offended you or impacted your competition negatively.
Jon y Judy
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 17 Apr 2000 to 18 Apr 2000 (#2000-105)
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