The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 28 Oct 1999
to 29 Oct 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:00:03 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 28 Oct 1999 to 29 Oct 1999 (#1999-48)
There are 8 messages totalling 381 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Trip to Buenos Aires (3)
2. more spice for the pot
3. Tandas, chatting, Argentine customs, insularity
4. Anonymous postings (2)
5. Tango and Peaches
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:11:09 EDT
From: Victor Crichton <victor_vsc @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Trip to Buenos Aires
*** Gina asked: ***
>Could someone who went to CITA last March share their advice with those of
>us going to CITA-2000?
>
>What is Club Espanol like for classes, milongas?
>
>What are various teachers like?!!!
>
>Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated!
>
>Muchas gracias,
>Gina.
*****************************
Club Espanol is a beautiful old building that has three large ballrooms that
are used for classes and some of the nightly milongas. All of the rooms
have great floors.
What really sets the building apart is all of the statues, carvings, and
paintings throughout the many floors. The main ballroom has huge beautiful
paintings on the walls and the ceiling. There is also a small room where
they serve food. You will also find a gorgeous stairway and a unique old
elevator.
The group of teachers that were assembled for '99 was incredible. I won't
try to name them all because I would probably leave some one out by mistake.
The important thing is that though the event was organized by Gustavo
Naveira and Fabian Salas, they included teachers of many different styles of
Tango, not just the style that they teach. A few examples, Osvaldo Zotto
and Lorena Ermocida, Rudolfo and Maria Cieri, Fucundo and Kelly, Nito and
Elba, and Omar Vega. There were, of course, other teachers that also teach
in the style of Gustavo and Fabian, including Cecilia Gonzalez and Chicho.
I believe that most of these teachers will be back for 2000 plus many
others. The list can be found on the www.cosmotango.com website.
There are 24 classes each day, 6 classes to choose from at 1, 3, 5, and 7 pm
for 6 days. What ever your preference of teachers or styles, you will find
plenty to make you happy.
There are also milongas and exhibitions every night with wonderful live
music. And I don't mean trios, these are full Tango orchestras! Last year
there where also 2 full shows, I believe this will be the case again in
2000.
I can't imagine a more complete or better Tango week!
As for the hotels and places to eat, I'll leave that to someone more
experienced with the area. Each person has different demands as far as what
they require to be happy with a hotel or restaurant. I can only say that
you can find everything from very cheap to very expensive in both hotels and
restaurants all within walking distance of Club Espanol.
The same is probably true for people's experiences with the local tangueros.
I'm sure you will find someone who had the greatest time of their life,
someone who had a terrible time, and everything in between. I personally
found the people that I met, both at the milongas and just generally
wandering around Buenos Aires to be friendly, helpful, and easy to get along
with. We travelled between the locations mostly in taxis and found them to
be very reliable and inexpensive. Not once did a cabbie try to take us via
a longer route or try to over charge us.
CITA 99 was my first trip to Buenos Aires and I found it to be a very worth
while experience. The event was First Class from beginning to end and the
city was everything I had always heard it was. I am definitely returning
for CITA 2000.
************
I have no financial interest in CITA and have no connection to the event or
the organizers. I am merely a very satisfied attendee of CITA 99.
Victor Crichton
Tampa Bay, Florida
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:30:20 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: more spice for the pot
Re Men learning.
It appears that Jean Pierre and I read the same books.
A few more details. Probably all of the first settlers and explorers were of
course men. It was no pleasure cruise to endure the Atlantic to a new harsh
land so not too many women were among the crews. The first pioneers became
essentially starved for female companionship because there weren't very many
around. Eventually a white slave trade developed by entrepreneurs to supply
women to the colonies. By the late 1800s the man/woman proportion would
change of course but not the flow of women to the colonies. Just as today,
many of the women did not realize what awaited them and they ended up in the
bordellos and "clandestinos". There were probably many women among the
prostitutes who ultimately would become very accomplished dancers thanks to
the tradition of dancing with your potential customers. How could they not,
dancing every day with many men, as part of their livelihood? So the men
would have to practice if they wanted to progress beyond dancing with them.
It is interesting to consider that these women could actually choose their
customers based on their "moves".
As colorful as this sounds it is nonetheless a reality that is a part of the
character of tango. Although Marta Savigliano touches on some broader
sociological issues in her book "Tango and the Political Economy of Passion"
some of her personal observations are interesting. One of the poignant ones
was of learning tango from her grandfather but not being aware until she was
older that his dancing skills were so refined because of dancing with
prostitutes.
There was also some implication in other material I read that the men started
practicing together not only to improve their skills thus impressing the
woman but also because it would have been expensive paying for time with the
prostitute but only dancing and working on steps.
Many people dance more than three dances but it does seem to be more or less
a tradition that grew out of those origins. As a form of etiquette it could
be viewed thus:
-You accept the offer and dance one.
- To decline a second dance makes a statement that you didn't think the
partner was very good. Either they follow badly, or he is just showing off
too much, or he's getting too forward and slimy, won't pay attention to the
line of dance, or wants to chat etc.
-To dance two is polite so why not one more. If I feel someone is not so
great to dance with I will usually dance three anyway but may wait before
asking them to dance again.
But three dances is not a rule etched in stone and many people dance more. At
times I dance with a favorite partner five or six times but I usually will
end it just to be considerate of others. If I really want to dance with the
same person a lot, I will ask them to practice with me (but not at a
milonga!)
Cheers, Charles
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:05:47 -0400
From: Nancy Ingle <ningle @RHS.BREVARD.K12.FL.US>
Subject: Tandas, chatting, Argentine customs, insularity
Although this is not a new thread, the experience of the gentleman who
objected to the chatting on the dance floor, just points up the diversity
of cultures in the Tango community.
It is the custom in Argentina to dance three or more consecutive dances
with the same partner. This is a charrming custom which I would like to
see practiced here. It allows the two strangers* the time to become
accustomed to the style of dance, the mood of the tanda (which is usually
selected from the same orchestra and time period), and the abilities of
one another. I found that as I became more relaxed and confident about my
partner, I was more able to 'give my body' to him and each dance became
better and more intimate.
As for chatting, this is yet another way of knowing one's partner and
becoming relaxed and intimate with him. It also gives the gentleman time
to think about the music and his plans for dancing his partner according to
her abilities. It is quite a rude feeling to be unceremoniously 'dumped'
by one's partner after one dance so that he can race to the next woman he
has been targeting. This, unfortunatley, is the habit of those leaders who
view tango as a competition to see just how many tangos they can 'knock
off' with the maximum number of women.
I believe that some of the customs of Argentina are not practiced here
because so many of our Tango communities are quite insular. It is always
the same people, dancing the same styles, to the same music, week after
week. We are no longer 'strangers'* to one another and therefore do not
feel the need to be 'polite', to practice the charming traditions, to spend
time with one another just enjoying the moments beyond the music, to
cherish the partnerships that develop for however brief a time.
Nancy of Florida
"DANCE, v.i. To leap about to the sound of tittering music, preferably with
arms about your neighbor's wife or daughter. There are many kinds of
dances, but all those requiring the participation of the two sexes have two
characteristics in common: they are conspicuously innocent, and warmly
loved by the vicious."
"The Devil's Dictionary"
Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:07:39 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Anonymous postings
A few discussions on Tango-L have been furthered by anonymous
postings, but many of the anonymous postings on Tango-L have been
extremely personal and unfair attacks on others. Very few of the
non-anonymous postings have been as personal or as unfair.
From what I have seen, a cloak anonymity shields the perpertrators
from any responsibility for what they write. As such, anonymity seems
to encourage writing of little value. On balance, I believe that
Tango-L has been made worse off by anonymous postings, and I would
encourage the development of procedures to eliminate the possibility
of anonymous postings.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:07:31 +0100
From: white95r <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Anonymous postings
Although I do not post anonymously, I am opposed to changing the this
feature of the list. Just as many posts are insulting and stupid regardless
of the identity of the perpetrator. I suggest allowing people to post
anonymously about their tango experience, knowledge and feelings. If some
people are going to violate the list rules and netiquette in general they
will do it no matter what. The list is like tango, open to all and should be
accessible to all. If one wishes to participate in a differently styled
forum, one need not look very far. Alberto Paz has a tango list that has the
requirement of proven, real identity of the contributor, this forum is
alright just as it is.
Manuel de Atlanta
Original Message -----
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 8:07 PM
Subject: Anonymous postings
> A few discussions on Tango-L have been furthered by anonymous
> postings, but many of the anonymous postings on Tango-L have been
> extremely personal and unfair attacks on others. Very few of the
> non-anonymous postings have been as personal or as unfair.
>
> From what I have seen, a cloak anonymity shields the perpertrators
> from any responsibility for what they write. As such, anonymity
seems
> to encourage writing of little value. On balance, I believe that
> Tango-L has been made worse off by anonymous postings, and I would
> encourage the development of procedures to eliminate the possibility
> of anonymous postings.
>
> --Steve de Tejas
>
>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:58:11 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango and Peaches
I'll be in the Atlanta GA area from 11/3 to 11/12 and would like to attend
any milongas or workshops going on during that time. I'll have a car and be
driving down from western NC. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Charles Roques
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:35:18 -0400
From: Sherry Dimmers <dimmers @PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Trip to Buenos Aires
Gina asked about CITA in B. A. I agree with all that Victor said except
that B.A. is a big city & you need to be alert.
My first trip to; B.A., a woman in our group had her passport taken out
of her bag while waiting to attend a Tango show. She was standing in
front of the theater. Last year a friend had a cab driver tell him his
bills had the wrong numbers on them, causing him to look at more bills
than were needed to pay the fare. After the cab left, he realized that
the cab driver didn't return some of his money. I had my purse stolen
from the back of my chair, while sitting in it, with 4 friends sitting
all around me. Especially be careful aro;und hotels where most N.
Americans are staying.
Otherwise, have a great time.
Sherry
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:58:07 -0700
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Trip to Buenos Aires
Original Message -----
From: Sherry Dimmers <dimmers @PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Trip to Buenos Aires
> Gina asked about CITA in B. A. I agree with all that
Victor said except
> that B.A. is a big city & you need to be alert.
Excellent advise Sherry, we all wax nostalgic and
enthusiatic about Bs As (with good reason) but we do forget
that it is a big city with big city problems.
> My first trip to; B.A., a woman in our group had her
passport taken out
> of her bag while waiting to attend a Tango show. She was
standing in
> front of the theater.
Again, a timely cautionary story. I'm sure that many times
N. American and other non-Spanish speakers are targeted by
local crooks because they are obviously tourists and easier
victims with less recourse.
>Last year a friend had a cab driver tell him his
> bills had the wrong numbers on them, causing him to look
at more bills
> than were needed to pay the fare. After the cab left, he
realized that
> the cab driver didn't return some of his money. I had my
purse stolen
> from the back of my chair, while sitting in it, with 4
friends sitting
> all around me. Especially be careful aro;und hotels where
most N.
> Americans are staying.
I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience. I guess it
really pays to be extra careful. I tend to be a liitle more
careful anyway because I know that being a tourist makes one
a more likely target. Besides, I've been to other countries
where crime is much worse so I guess I've become a bit more
paranoid.
There are other scams that have happened to visiting
tangueros in Bs As, I remember reading in one of the Tango
magazine's in the States about two couples who were enticed
to go in a restaurant to dance and eat only to be
horrifically overcharged and extorted. When they tried to
protest they were threatened with serious bodily harm! Yes,
it does pay to be careful, don't leave your possessions
unatended and be alert.
Still, I think it is good to remember that Bs As is a fairly
safe city by any standards and if one is prudent one can
have a very nice and safe time. The great majority of people
in Bs As are honest, friendly and helpful so I say go
without fear but be reasonably careful, and by all means
enjoy C.I.T.A.
Manuel
End of TANGO-L Digest - 28 Oct 1999 to 29 Oct 1999 (#1999-48)
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