The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 21 Oct 1999
to 22 Oct 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:00:05 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 21 Oct 1999 to 22 Oct 1999 (#1999-41)
There are 6 messages totalling 253 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. A tango for the cello (2)
2. tango community survey
3. sweet nothings
4. Is New Tango Old Hat?
5. Men as followers
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:27:30 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: A tango for the cello
Original Message-----
From: Frank G. Williams <frankw @mail.ahc.umn.edu>
To: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @emc.com>; tango-l
<tango-l @mitvma.mit.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: A tango for the cello
>pure and in many ways elusive aspects of the dance. In my weekly
>"directed practicas" I have used selected tracks from these solo cello
>suites to set a very definite mood for technical practice. The
>students liked them alot! A few even dared me to play one of them
>when I last DJ'd the big local milonga. At first I said no, but then
>relented and made it a "milonguero's challenge". The floor was
>fairly full! Afterward, SO many people wanted to know what that
>music was. Some seemed almost disappointed that it was J.S. Bach
>and not some obscure Argentine composer whose work was just now
>being heard in North America! But it was the performer who made the
>music feel so right.
This bit is good to know. I wish I were at one of these milongas.
I have always wondered about how it would be to Tango to one
of these -- but never dared say it(I do not have Yo-Yo Ma's recording
but Rastropovich's -- I hope there are no great differences).
I also feel like tangoing the same way with *some* of the lighter
lyrical passages from Mahler where only one or two instruments
are playing(so this would require some effort in editing-- unlike
Bach. But some of these last for 3-4 minutes). After all, in emotion
and lyricism at least, the music is so much closer to tango. Or,
am I really off the track here? :-)
Any opinions? And while we are at this, any other classical
composers that others feel like dancing tango to?
rajan.
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:36:28 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: A tango for the cello
Original Message-----
From: Frank G. Williams <frankw @mail.ahc.umn.edu>
To: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @emc.com>
Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: A tango for the cello
>Greetings Natarajan,
>
>Because of an "originating address" problem, my post to tango-l
>that responded to you was rejected. Perhaps you could re-post
>my message so that your response is in context?
>
>Regards,
>
>Frank
>
Below is the message which Frank is referring to
above-----------
Greetings Friends,
Natarajan Balasundara wrote:
>
> Yo-Yo Ma not long ago(last year or mayber earlier this year)
> recorded tango music for the cello...and these should be available
> at any music store nearest you. As for the score, I dont know.
The recording was made in 1997 in Bs.As., with an all-star cast
of supporting musicians. I enjoy the disc for the energy and
technical excelence of the playing. The selections are interesting
and an added twist is a track in which maestro Ma records along-side
a historical recording by Piazzolla.
On the other hand, there are places where Yo Yo Ma's playing is
just not in the spirit of Piazzola's tango. Particularly some goofy
improv. near the end of Milonga del Angel. I think that this is NOT
the best example of Piazzolla's use of a cello and recommend older
recordings on which Astor played himself with the accompaniment
of cellist Carlos Nozzi. THAT music is a unit! It's solid tango
nuevo, not celebrity cello with all-star tango accompaniment.
Now, to be clear, I'm not knocking Yo Yo Ma. In fact, his recent
recording of the Bach Cello Suites - the recordings that were used
for his recent PBS collaboration with artists from other media -
brings the listener as close to the heart and soul of the cello as
any performance I've ever heard. These performances are masterful
beyond imagination because of their delicacy in and with the
simplicity of the music. Very analagous to tango dancing, in my
opinion, that the details within the more simple elements are the most
pure and in many ways elusive aspects of the dance. In my weekly
"directed practicas" I have used selected tracks from these solo cello
suites to set a very definite mood for technical practice. The
students liked them alot! A few even dared me to play one of them
when I last DJ'd the big local milonga. At first I said no, but then
relented and made it a "milonguero's challenge". The floor was
fairly full! Afterward, SO many people wanted to know what that
music was. Some seemed almost disappointed that it was J.S. Bach
and not some obscure Argentine composer whose work was just now
being heard in North America! But it was the performer who made the
music feel so right.
Anyway, Yo Yo rocks. But something (his classical training?) cut
into the feeling of the Piazzolla just a little bit.
Don't take my word for any of this! Listen and decide for yourself.
Oh, that's: Yo Yo Ma, Soul of the Tango, Sony SK 63122
Best regards,
Frank in Minneapolis
_____________________________________________________________
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frankw @mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
end original message --------------------
>_____________________________________________________________
>
>Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
>frankw @mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
>(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
>(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
>(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:12:20 -0400
From: Robinne Gray <rlg2 @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: tango community survey
Great idea, Sandy, and a very intriguing topic that has interested me,
informally, for years. One relatively new wrinkle in the discussion of any
"community" is to what extent the cybercommunity is considered. I'm
assuming the questions in your survey refer to the immediate geographic
community, the people we see and dance with regularly--or is that open to
the interpretation of the respondent?
I just glanced over your document and had to chuckle when I saw the phrase
"46. My tango community lacks real leaders." :-D
--Robinne
Ithaca, NY
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:17:06 -0400
From: Eugenia Spitkovsky <euginas @EROLS.COM>
Subject: sweet nothings
Dear list,
I thought of ignoring Sergio's "I could care less what you think"
(please forgive me if quote is not exact, the meaning is), but now I am
being quoted by Sergio as calling piropos a "foreplay". In fact I did,
but only to emphasize the prime meaning of piropos as "sweet nothings".
Do you expect anything from a woman when you compliment her? I hope
not from the passerby. The "not missed" point is and was: "piropos",
i.e. compliments (I hope this is less confusing) exist everywhere!
Whether piropos=sweet nothings are pleasant, tolerable, or awful depends
on many things, definitely on one's cultural upbringing, and very rarely
on tango experiences.
Sergio, your first posting about piropos was really informative and fun
to read: something new about Argentine culture. Plus,I learned a Spanish
word!
Eugenia
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:56:58 -0400
From: MTurnes <MTurnes @UNBOUNDED.COM>
Subject: Re: Is New Tango Old Hat?
This is a great example of what I was trying to say on my last letter.
Dear Jean Pierre Jacquet
I would completely agree with you that milongeras over 60 are doing the best back ochos in the business. But that is from a point of view of somebody that dances that type of style.
The point is that you can not fairly compare the old forms of tango with Chicho's style, because the women that dance with him don't do the ochos like in old tango. Even more, it will be completely wrong to try to mix the styles. And at the same time they will be both write if you don't mix them up.
What I am trying to say is that there is not such things as wrong ochos, what is wrong is to compare different ways of dancing and try to make them one.
Marcelo Turnes
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:56:00 -0400
From: Michael Ditkoff <Michael.B.Ditkoff @USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: Men as followers
I recently resubscribed after being mysteriously dropped. I've read
the tail end of messages about men as followers.
I attended the Washington, DC tango festival where Daniel Trenner
was the lead instructor. He spoke about how men were taught in
Argentina. They went to school where they were taught by men.
In the classes, he said if you want to learn tango QUICKLY, dance
with a person of the same gender and practice lead and follow. He's
absolutely correct.
I don't want to dance with a man at a milonga but I want a strong
leader (usually a man) to let me feel what a woman feels at a
workshop or practica. This will help me be more graceful.
My teacher admonished me to be patient and wait for the women to
move. It was driven home when a woman lead me in ochos. She closed
to the right as I did a front ocho on my right foot. She stepped
sideways on her left before I had a chance to pivot for the return
ocho. She was out in front of me. That was an instructive lesson of
what it feels like when I rush a woman when she does ochos.
Daniel went on to say that men practiced with men so they could
resist each other's natural tendency to be strong and rough. After
getting the urge to forcefully lead out of their systems, men could
then go on and dance with women.
To paraphrase a expression, don't criticize a woman's following
until you've danced in her shoes.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 21 Oct 1999 to 22 Oct 1999 (#1999-41)
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