The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 4 Oct 1999
to 5 Oct 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:00:05 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 4 Oct 1999 to 5 Oct 1999 (#1999-25)
There are 10 messages totalling 371 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. PIROPOS (3)
2. Ebert review (3)
3. [ATOF] Popular culture and dance (2)
4. [Fwd: Radio Tango]
5. Argentine "culture"
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:02:09 EDT
From: Mitchell Levitan <WEDRIVEN @AOL.COM>
Subject: PIROPOS
A New York construction worker was known to say to women passing on the
street, "Hey, baby, you so tasty, I'd like to have you for lunch, y'know what
I mean?"
He didn't tango, nor did she. His cousin from Jersey did tango once, a long
long time ago and her brother once ate Ben & Jerry's "dulce de leche" ice
cream ...
My point is the list is supposed to be about tango, but maybe that's not
enough. The vanishing social mores of Buenos Aires, while mildly intriguing
are not the point here or am I missing the point?
Mitchell
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:57:11 +0200
From: Virginia Gift <vgift @IBM.NET>
Subject: Ebert review
Dear List Members,
I'm still trying to unravel the mystery of this dance.
In a review of the film "Tango", Roger Elbert wrote the following, but
without any support
"The tango is based on suspicion, sex and insincerity. It is not a
dance for virgins. It is for the wounded and the wary."
I find it interesting but am not quite sure what to make of it. Does
anyone agree with him? If so, why? Disagree? Any comments?
Virginia
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:49:02 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Ebert review
As always, an expert one field may not be an expert
in all fields (s)he may wish to comment upon.
Roger Ebert, as long as he was only commenting on the
movie, should be taken seriously(although one can not assume he
would be correct even then-- A Siskel might disagree/roll in his grave;-).
But, if he says something about tango, it should be given as much
weight as one would give to anyone -- but not more.
"it is for the wounded and the weary" I would modify
as "it is for those who have been through life". That is to say that
it is similar to a folksong where one is merely trying to roughly put into
dance what one has already gone through(episodic)--
as opposed to it being an 'artistic creation' where one might
stage-manage all episodes to neatly order them as a manifestation
of one grand eternal brightly burning beacon of truth(albeit what are
seen are only broken dimgray patches on the ripply river of life ;-).
My guess is, it maybe for the "wounded and the weary" because it
looks inwardly(partners at times seem to be looking at nothing at all, not
even the other person. May be they are dancing as one where there is no
'other' person or may be they are just lost in their ownselves , their own
griefs),
dancing down under in the dim-lights.
As opposed to the "joyous and the happy", who would perhaps be
dancing viennese waltz in the spotlight to the audience of a king.
(But, competition may change all that.)
rajan.
Original Message-----
From: Virginia Gift <vgift @ibm.net>
To: TANGO-L @mitvma.mit.edu <TANGO-L @mitvma.mit.edu>
Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:26 PM
Subject: Ebert review
>Dear List Members,
> I'm still trying to unravel the mystery of this dance.
> In a review of the film "Tango", Roger Elbert wrote the following, but
>without any support
> "The tango is based on suspicion, sex and insincerity. It is not a
>dance for virgins. It is for the wounded and the wary."
> I find it interesting but am not quite sure what to make of it. Does
>anyone agree with him? If so, why? Disagree? Any comments?
>
>Virginia
>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:51:56 -0500
From: Tom Ronquillo <chitiger @MAIL.DAVE-WORLD.NET>
Subject: Re: PIROPOS
Mitchell Levitan wrote:
>
> A New York construction worker was known to say to women passing on the street, "Hey, baby, you so tasty, I'd like to have you for lunch, y'know what I mean?"
> He didn't tango, nor did she. His cousin from Jersey did tango once, a long long time ago and her brother once ate Ben & Jerry's "dulce de leche" ice cream ...
>
> My point is the list is supposed to be about tango, but maybe that's not enough. The vanishing social mores of Buenos Aires, while mildly intriguing are not the point here or am I missing the point?
>
> Mitchell
To Mitchell and others weary of piropos:
For some individuals, the study of tango often includes aspects of
Argentine culture other than simply dance steps. The social mores of
Buenos Aires are somewhat linked to the character of the dance. Piropos
are merely one facet of the much vaunted Latin mystique. Isn't this
mystique part of the imagery that lures people to tango instead of
polka? Technical discussions of whether a toe or a heel lead is
acceptable are important, but we shouldn't forget that the spirit of
tango was shaped by more than physical technique alone.
Now, speaking of cultural enrichment, if anyone has a good asado recipe
to share I'd love to have it. Better send it to me privately though; I
don't want to get the vegetarians on the list riled. And for any Cubanos
I might have offended earlier, I'd like your recipe for Moros y
Cristianos.
Tom (El Tigre) Ronquillo
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:42:03 -0700
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: PIROPOS
When speaking piropos does one turn slightly to ones left or
right? Or maybe look straight into the receivers eyes? How
about the lips, should they move forcefully and plainly or
more "stealhthily". Also, as one moves towards the receiver
of the piropo, does one lead with the toes or the heels?
Conversely, as the "piropee" walks away cooly and pointedly
ignoring the "piroper", does she lead with the toes or the
heels? How about the posture will the lean forward or
maintain her own balance? My, my, there is a lot of
questions that come up on this subject. Goodness, what if
the "piroper" uses a "fantasia" piropo and the woman only
likes "milonguero" style piropos? Which are the "true"
piropos? those uttered by the educated and well spoken or
those in the must vulgar lunfardo? Please, please let's shed
some light on these important questions lest we be left lost
and unguided in the dangerous real of words (particularly
Spanish words). I wait anxiously on the discussion of these
important questions.
Manuel
el "chulla" Quiteqo a la muchacha "Que lindas tazas de te al
reves!"
Original Message -----
From: Tom Ronquillo <chitiger @MAIL.DAVE-WORLD.NET>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: PIROPOS
> Mitchell Levitan wrote:
SNIP
> > My point is the list is supposed to be about tango, but
maybe that's not enough. The vanishing social mores of
Buenos Aires, while mildly intriguing are not the point here
or am I missing the point?
> >
> > Mitchell
>
> To Mitchell and others weary of piropos:
>
> For some individuals, the study of tango often includes
aspects of
> Argentine culture other than simply dance steps
SNIP
Technical discussions of whether a toe or a heel lead is
> acceptable are important, but we shouldn't forget that the
spirit of
> tango was shaped by more than physical technique alone.
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:36:17 -0400
From: Christina Burtis <Cburtis @IFC.ORG>
Subject: Re: [ATOF] Popular culture and dance
He's definitely missing the point, Sergio. I loved your discussions on
Argentine culture, esp. the ones about piropos of course. I found it very VERY
relevant to the feeling of tango. Please keep them coming.
Kind regards,
Christina Burtis
(a.k.a. Melenita de Oro)
Washington D.C.
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:24:44 -0700
From: Hal Waite <halwaite @LVCM.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Radio Tango]
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Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:33:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg Lindberg <greglindberg @yahoo.com>
Reply-To: greg @cubik.com
Subject: Radio Tango
To: halwaite @lvcm.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,
I got your email forwarded to me in Buenos Aires and I
think I can help you out. I4ve recently moved the
Radio Tango streams to another server so you may still
be accessing the old ones. If you haven4t already done
so, go to the www.radiotango.com site and access the
new streams on the listen page (You should always go
there first since the pls files can change) If it4s
not working then clear your disk cache and try again
(your browser may be caching the old pls files.) If
that fails then use these IP addresses for the streams
from within WinAmp: for DSL http://206.251.29.123:8000
and for modem http://205.251.29.123:8010. Please let
me know if you have any more trouble and I4ll try and
walk you through it.
Also, could you please forward this to the Tango-L
list, as I cannot send from my account in B.S. to the
list.
Suerte,
Greg
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
674F79EB146CEE9A5A1FCFD6--
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:29:35 -0700
From: Hal Waite <halwaite @LVCM.COM>
Subject: Re: [ATOF] Popular culture and dance
Christina Burtis wrote:
>
> He's definitely missing the point, Sergio. I loved your discussions on
> Argentine culture, esp. the ones about piropos of course. I found it very VERY
> relevant to the feeling of tango. Please keep them coming.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Christina Burtis
> (a.k.a. Melenita de Oro)
> Washington D.C.
I find that PC policemen seldom get the point and are humorless at best.
Hal
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:50:54 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Argentine "culture"
re. piropos
Yes, It is good to understand something about the culture that created tango
but any one who has lived in Latin America can tell you that verbal flirting
whether unsavory or "creative" is hardly indigenous to Argentina. It's pretty
rampant all over the latin world.
It's just a matter of whether you find it offensive or not. Perhaps a woman
who finds it "charming" in Buenos Aires might not find it so in Santo
Domingo. It's not a question of being politically correct, I just find it
much more interesting to try to express these kind of feelings silently on
the dance floor.
Charles
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:31:24 +0900
From: Sang Hyeon Chang <chang @BARAM.PHYS.TOHOKU.AC.JP>
Subject: Re: Ebert review
As far as I know, Ebert doesn't know much about tango, but he likes it.
He gave thumbs up for both "Tango Lesson" and "Tango".
For Tango Lesson, both Siskel and Ebert gave thumbs up.
Ebert said that this is the first time ever he walked out of the
screening and bought the soundtrack. (Guess how many films he saw
for his life!) He just loved that musics and dances.
After Siskel have passed away, one guest critic reviewed "Tango" with
Ebert and he didn't like it. Ebert asked him
"So, don't you like the dance?"
"NO, I think tango is a stupid dance!"
Oh, I never missed Siskel more than that moment.
Anyway, here is another interesting opinion by Ebert in the review of
"Tango Lesson"
"Most dances are for people who are falling in love. The tango is a dance
for those who have survived it, and are still a little angry about having
their hearts so mishandled"
Sang
End of TANGO-L Digest - 4 Oct 1999 to 5 Oct 1999 (#1999-25)
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