The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 10 Nov 1999
to 11 Nov 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 03:00:09 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 10 Nov 1999 to 11 Nov 1999 (#1999-60)
There are 11 messages totalling 697 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Help ! Estancia en BA
2. Answer: Recient dancable Tango recordings (2)
3. Men: which of these would be the greater compliment (3)
4. Utility to unmask cyberpunks
5. My experience in BA
6. Glas Kat intermediate/advanced lesson
7. "Round" boleos
8. Antwort: Re: Answer: Recient dancable Tango recordings
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:47:51 +0200
From: Sanchou/Missire <cpst4 @UNIV-TLSE2.FR>
Subject: Help ! Estancia en BA
Hola !
Tienes que ir a Buenos Aires por una investigacion (julio/agosto/septiemb=
re
2000).
Me gustaria tener una idea de presupuesto para mi estancia en BA
- Cuanto cuesta el alojamiento ? y la comida ?
- Cuanto cuestan las clases de tango ? Las practicas ?
Cuanto cuesta la vida de una tanguera en BA ?!
Muchas gracias
Val=E9rie SANCHOU - Toulouse (FRANCE)
SANCHOU Val=E9rie
CPST - Maison de la Recherche Personal :
5 all=E9es A. Machado 3 rue Jean P=E9got
31058 Toulouse cedex, FRANCE 31500 Toulouse, FRANCE
Tel ++ 33 5.61.50.37.42 Tel ++ 33 5.61.26.85.46
Fax ++ 33 5.61.50.37.06
Mail : cpst4 @univ-tlse2.fr
http://osimonetto.free.fr/web_tango/html/contact_1.html
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 20:49:28 +0100
From: "Hans-Peter Gollnow/EDE/EUR/CPC @CPC"
<Hans-Peter.Gollnow @EU.BESTFOODS.COM>
Subject: Answer: Recient dancable Tango recordings
I am looking for recommendations for recently recorded (since 1960-1970) Tango
CD with good dance music. I have a fairly good collection of older (pre 1955)
dance music. My more recent music is mostly Piazolla of which some is good dance
music and some less so. Any suggestions and where to buy them would be
appreciated.
Brad
Hi Brad!
I have some CDs from 1980 up to now ....
You can order this CDs in Germany by www.danzaymovimiento.com.
This dealer have abaout 400 to 600 different Tango-CDs on stock.
Ciao Hans-Peter
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Group |Titel |Label |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|price *0 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Argentino de |T.A.T. |DZ 2 |
|Tango | | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Argentino de |Revolucionario 1996|DZ 8 |
|Tango | | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Binelli |Tango x 2 | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sextetto Canyengue |Tangueros de |DZ 19 |
| |Holanda | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sextetto Canyengue |Cinco Tangos de |DZ 20 |
| |Astor Piazzolla | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sextetto Canyengue |Por el tango |LC 831535 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sextetto Canyengue |Piazzolla bien |LC 833901 |
| |Canyengue | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sextetto Canyengue |Tiburonero |LC 831545 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Lidia Borda *1 |Entre Suenos |DZ 13 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|39,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Silvana Deluigi *1 |Tangos |WE 1613 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|36,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Gomina |Trio Gomina 06.1995|LI 2526 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|36,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Alfredo Marcucci |Tango an anthologhy|CCS 5393 |
| |Marcucci bandoneon | |
| |Baltazar Benitez | |
| |guitar | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|36,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Alfredo Marcucci *2|Preparense |DZ 3101 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sexteto Mayor |from Argentina to |EM 37858 |
| |the world | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sexteto Mayor |quejas de bandoneon|NW 52988 |
| |04.1984 | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Sexteto Mayor |Trottiors de Bs.As.|NW 58246 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Mosalini *2 |Bordeneo y 900 |LI 2507 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|36,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Pantango *2 |Tango Argentino |AZ 1257 |
| |Popular | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Pantango *2 |Che Bandoneon |AZ 1334 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Pantango *2 |El garron 1996 |AZ 1379 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Trio Pantango *2 |El motivo 1998 |AZ 1474 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Tango al sur *2 |con Van |MYR 1007 |
| |Esbroeck;Masando | |
| |1989 | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Tango al sur *2 |Liberata |MYR 1011 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|El Arranque | | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Tango Real |Milongueando en |WW 301 |
| |Berlin | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Tango Real |Tiempos Viejos; |WW 303 |
| |Pablo Banchero 1996| |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Tango Real |Inspiracion |WW 305 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Quinteto Tango *2 |A lo nuevo |DR 95001 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|34,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Las Tangueras | |EM 53998 |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|37,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
|Tango Argentino | |AT 81636 |
|(Sexteto Mayor) | | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
|33,50 |
>-------------------|
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
| | | |
|-------------------+-------------------+------------------->
>-------------------|
| |
>-------------------|
*0 price in DeutschMark
*1 not for dancing, but wonderful for listening
*2 my favorites
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 07:12:44 -0800
From: John Trimble <john.trimble @EXCITE.COM>
Subject: Re: Men: which of these would be the greater compliment
Nito Garcia instructed a local male dancer to attempt to move like a swan. The image, as explained by Nito, was intended to inspire levelled progress of the head in conjunction with forceful (perhaps one might say "aggressive") forward movement of the body. Mr. Garcia contrasted the movement of a swan along the level surface of the water to the hopping of a frog, bobbing up from the surface and back down. I have it from an expert source, therefore, that dancing tango like a swan, if not a sure-fire compliment, is at least better than dancing tango like a frog.
A friend from Thailand once remarked to me that people at a Chicago disco danced like worms. Having misconstrued several of her previous remarks, I couldn't be sure that it was not a culturally loaded compliment to their rhythmic interpretation or isolation skills. When I inquired if dancing like a worm was good or bad, she simply said, "Well, people don't dance like that in Thailand".
Here in Texas, it's not necessarily a bad thing to dance like an armadillo or a jackrabbit, nor for that matter a frog, if by that you mean the horned frog sometimes also called a horned toad or horny toad. In the right venue in Ft. Worth, telling a lady she dances like a horny toad is a high stakes gamble that could put you on the road to matrimony, a black eye, or both.
John
_______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:59:23 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Men: which of these would be the greater compliment
Original Message-----
From: John Trimble <john.trimble @excite.com>
To: TANGO-L @mitvma.mit.edu <TANGO-L @mitvma.mit.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Men: which of these would be the greater
compliment
> Nito Garcia instructed a local male dancer to attempt to
move like a swan. The image, as explained by Nito, was
intended to inspire levelled progress of the head in
conjunction with forceful (perhaps one might say
"aggressive") forward movement of the body. Mr. Garcia
contrasted the movement of a swan along the level
surface of the water to the hopping of a frog, bobbing up
from the surface and back down. I have it from an
expert source, therefore, that dancing tango like a swan, if
not a sure-fire compliment, is at least better than dancing
tango like a frog.
I like this explanation -- good for the swan.
As for the panther, it is too big to fit in my
head where I could imagine it dancing, if it did.
But, panther being cat, I can see a cat on a mat
curled swaying its tail ever so gently like a true
gymnast doing her floor exercises.
I can also imagine a cat on a hot tin roof moving
rather purposefully and majestically like a true
tiger-wannabe -- dancing away to a different rythm.
That could be a complement too.
In any case, I would discount the words and look
for the raised eyebrows or a sweet smile which
might accompany the comment for what it really
meant.
It is true that whether being something is a complement
or not depends on where you are-- being called a
'pig' (in a nice way), I am told, is not at all a bad
complement
in France -- may be a true french person can tell us
if this is so and more...although I am sure that across the
channel, being called a swine is not the same thing as that.
rajan.
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:04:34 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Answer: Recient dancable Tango recordings
Brad wrote:
>>I am looking for recommendations for recently recorded (since 1960-1970) Tango
>>CD with good dance music. I have a fairly good collection of older (pre 1955)
>>dance music. My more recent music is mostly Piazolla of which some is good
>>dance music and some less so. Any suggestions and where to buy them would be
>>appreciated.
Hans-Peter suggested (my editing):
>Trio Argentino de Tango [various titles] |
>Binelli Tango x 2
>Sextetto Canyengue [various titles]
>Lidia Borda Entre Suenos *1
>Silvana Deluigi Tangos *1
>Trio Gomina
>Alfredo Marcucci [various titles]
>Sexteto Mayor [various titles]
>Mosalini Bordeneo y 900
>Trio Pantango [various titles]
>Tango al sur [various titles]
>El Arranque
>Tango Real [various titles]
>Quinteto Tango A lo nuevo
>Las Tangueras
>Tango Argentino [soundtrack] (Sexteto Mayor)
>*1 not for dancing, but wonderful for listening
I do not know every recording on Hans-Peter's
list, but of those that I do know--Binelli's
Tango X 2, the Sexeto Mayor CDs, the Mosalini
CD, the Trio Pantango CDs and the Tango
Argentino soundtrack--I have found only a few
tracks on each that I would find enjoyable for
social dancing. These CDs principally contain
music that I find better suited to exhibition
dancing or listening, but then I would not
select Astor Piazzolla for social dancing.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:21:04 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Men: which of these would be the greater compliment
I wrote:
>That could be a complement too.
>
I meant compliment -- not the same thing
as a complement.
>It is true that whether being something is a complement
Same here...
>rajan.
>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:28:30 -0800
From: Ruddy Zelaya <ruddy.zelaya @ENG.SUN.COM>
Subject: Utility to unmask cyberpunks
Greetings Naifas y Garabos,
If you have been harrased by e-mail, bombarded by spammers,
threatened by lawyers, or swamped by cyberporn purveyors
only to find that the cur doing it is hiding behind a fake
address read on...
Go to http://www.pc-help.org and download Trace.bat.
Trace.bat uses utilities that are already on your system,
plus a couple of freebies to give you the kind of in-depth
information on a site or an IP address that you need to
unmask attackers and intruders or at least to file a
complaint with their ISPs. The utility will uncover everything
it can find about an address right down to the user's NetBIOS
name, the NIC's MAC number and who made the NIC, and writes it
all to a text file. It will also tell you how much information
you're making available to the Internet from your own machine.
It accesses worldwide Whois databases to give you all the
site ownership information it can.
It is hard enough to know who you're dealing with in life,
and it is far worse online. Remember The New Yorker's
classic "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
cartoon? The whole point of Trace.bat is to track the curs
back to their kennels.
Regards,
--
ruddy
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:59:50 -0500
From: Carlos Garces <carlosg @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: My experience in BA
David,
I want to thank you for your email (I'm over a week late in reading my
email, though). I enjoyed very much your first experience in BsAs.
Tango-l has provided some great feedback on the experience many women have
had in BsAs, but feedback from men in BsAs - I've not heard very much.
Your email has helped to define my tango. I hope when the opportunity to
go to BsAs comes, I will be able to gain something close to what you did.
I would welcome any other feedback about men's experience in BsAs.
Carlos
At 02:31 PM 11/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I would like to share my first experience on Buenos Aires.
>
>A little background. I have been a dancer most of my life. I took up
>Argentine tango 17 mos ago. My style of dance has been "close embrace" or
>"on the body". I have been blessed with excellent local teachers as well as
>traveling teachers.
>
>I spent most of the month of September in BA. It was my first time. My
>main objective in going was to study more intensely with Susana Miller with
>the intention of improving my basics of tango, ie, presence, walk, posture,
>balance, lead. I knew that I would learn steps as a result, however, I
>would not have been disappointed if i had not learned any new steps.
>
>My first day in BA I was taken to dance at Italia Unita. I was told all the
>best BA dancers go there. I was scared because I did not know if I would be
>able to get a milonguera to dance with me and I did not know if I did, would
>my dance be good enough to get more dances. To my good fortune one of the
>organizers of the milonga, Rubin, was close with Susana, knew I was coming
>and got me initial dances. To the praise of my teachers and my many hours
>of practice and dance I danced well enough and was able to navigate the
>floor well enough to get more dances. Later in the day Susana showed up. I
>danced a tanda with her on a very crowded floor. Afterwards more of the
>milongueras in attendance gave me dances. As days went by I visited more
>milongas such as La Ideal, Pavadita, Nino Bien, Club Gricel, etc. At these
>milongas enough milongueras and milongureos that I had danced with and met
>were in attendance that I was able to show my dance and get dances with new
>milongureas. I discovered that if you were not known in the good milongas
>it was tough to get a dance. When you did you had to show you could dance
>and navigate the floor well to continue to get dances.
>
>I danced about 7 to 9 hours a day, which included afternoon milongas, night
>classes and night milongas. I took lessons mainly from Susana and also from
>Puppy, Graciela, Lauren, Rubin and others. I enjoyed every minute and know
>that anyone who continues to dance tango needs to experience BA. If I had
>not taken any lessons while there, the level of milongurea that I was
>prividledged to dance with alone would have improved my dance. I learned
>almost as much dancing with some of the best and watching the best as I did
>in classes. You do truly refine and solidify on the dance floor.
>
>These are the understandings of tango I gained in BA: 1. They dance for
>the pleasure of the dance and the experience that they get from each other.
>2. They dance for the most part simply, very few complicated, showy steps.
>Even thought they can do the complicated, showy even on a non crowded floor
>most still danced simply. Their emphasis, #1 above. 3. The basics are the
>most important part of the tango. What matters most is your presence,
>posture, balance, lead or follow. The better the basics, the better and
>easier the dance, the more you free yourself to hear the music and open
>yourself to your partner so that you truly can talk to and listen to each
>other through your bodies. 4. A good majority dance the "close embrace"
>style because the experience you can have dancing on the body with another
>person can not be had in any other style. Yes you can have an incredible
>experience dancing "salon" or "open" style and yet the truly delicious,
>sensuous, spiritual experience comes from that intimate, open heart, body on
>body style. It is in "on the body" that one can have the "out of body"
>experience. Once experienced, it is continually looked for in the next
>dance. My good friend, Barbara, calls it "Chasing the Ghost". 5. In
>conjunction with #'s 1 & 2 above they dance the music not the steps. They
>dance the musical phrasing between the beats and are, at the same time,
>always on the beat.
>
>I was asked by my fellow dancers in Atlanta to describe what it felt like
>dancing with that good, experienced milonguera. My response, "It was like
>dancing with an oak tree that gave me her heart and I could move with a
>feather". Due to their presence in the dance my lead became very sutle. It
>was my hardest adjustment to make once back home, that of making my lead
>less sutle again. Yes, I did get spoiled. My dancing definitely got
>changed and improved in a deliciously marvelous way. I do dance now for the
>pleasure and the experience and I was able to make the transition to dancing
>the music and not the steps. Ooooooh, my oh my,
>the things I could share.
>
>Wow!!!! The greatest dance in the world. I truly do understand now how my
>friend, Christina Johnson, was able to create a masterful "Relationship"
>workshop using the Argentine tango as the basis.
>
>Thanks for letting me express my thoughts.
>
>Hooked on tango,
>
>
>David
>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:25:25 -0700
From: "Richard T. Simoni, Sr." <rtssr @BATNET.COM>
Subject: Glas Kat intermediate/advanced lesson
Hi,
Be advised George Guim will teach an intermediate/advanced Argentine
Tango lesson henceforth on Monday evenings at the Glas Kat beginning at
7:45PM. George and his partner will also teach beginners at the same
time.
The GLAS KAT welcomes you to attend
EVERY MONDAY NIGHT WITH LIVE TANGO BAND
Hours 8:30 to 12:00 PM
San Francisco's newest and most exciting dance club, Monday nights
dedicated to dancing Argentine Tango to the live music of Dale Meyers
and his STRICTLY TANGO band
Beautiful, brand new club built from the ground up as a dance club with
fabulous sound and lighting system. Two level (high) dance space with
tables and banquets, grand wood dance floor, 2nd level restaurant, two
bars, smoking room, and much more. A very elegant night spot to say the
least.
Located at 520 4th Street at 4th and Bryant in San Francisco
Entrance $10.00 per person at the door
Plenty (hopefully) of street parking in the neighborhood
For information call (650) 328-2718
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:55:17 -0500
From: Laura Stevens <laura.stevens @CANOEMAIL.COM>
Subject: "Round" boleos
Can someone explain in detail what "round" boleos are and how they differ from "regular" boleos.
Please advise on the "lead" and "follow" techniques.
Many thanks,
Laura.
___________________________________________________________________
Sign up today for your Free E-mail at http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeMail
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:27:31 +0100
From: "Hans-Peter Gollnow/EDE/EUR/CPC @CPC"
<Hans-Peter.Gollnow @EU.BESTFOODS.COM>
Subject: Antwort: Re: Answer: Recient dancable Tango recordings
I do not know every recording on Hans-Peter's
list, but of those that I do know--Binelli's
Tango X 2, the Sexeto Mayor CDs, the Mosalini
CD, the Trio Pantango CDs and the Tango
Argentino soundtrack--I have found only a few
tracks on each that I would find enjoyable for
social dancing. These CDs principally contain
music that I find better suited to exhibition
dancing or listening, but then I would not
select Astor Piazzolla for social dancing.
--Steve de Tejas
Your are absolutly right. The groups of today mostly produce CDs with tango for
the stage (exhibition dancing). But the most people like also dance to this
musik on the dancefloor. Either they can interpret the music or not.
But why don't we have more recent music for social dancing? I discused this
thing with some musician's.
The tango was dead, up to the Tango Argentino Show, I think 1984(?).
The groups of today have only 3 - 7 musicians. Old orchester (1940-1955) have
sometimes 6 bandoneons, 6 violins .......
The small groups ot today can't produce the sound of the bigger groups of
yesterday.
Last weekend i listend and danced to Mosalini with 11 musicans, it was great
(Karlsruhe/Germany), but the music sounds for exhibiton dancing.
Today the view groups must earn their money with playing music on tango-ball
(for dancing), concert, tango-show and CDs.
In the golden tango-years they have a lot of groups. Radio, shellack-disk and
mostly live-playing for dancing are the common way to earn money. Today we
are dancing/listening only about 300-400 different tango-titles of few old
orchesters. Someone wrote: Francisco Canaro have about 5.000 recordings!
Perhaps there are all together 40.000 or 70.000 different tango-titles in the
world! We have today the selected TOP of the old music and this music is
wonderful for the social dancing.
If I have a CD produced in the 90's with a few tracks for social dancing it
is OK and I enjoy it. Listen to Aisemberg, Barenboim, Gideon Kremer, Yoyo Ma,
Julio Iglesias, Milva ........... and several other produtctions
................ nothing for dancing, sometimes good for listening.
What ist social dancing?
dancing on the stage (all over the world) no social dancing
dancefloor in Europ and USA social dancing
salon in Buenos Aires (like Almagro) social dancing
In the milongas of BsAs your listen mostly no music from Piazzolla and no
music after 1955.
I have danced in several european milongas. The people like the old music,
but also they want to dance to the exhibition-music.
Sorry Steve, all together it is no solution to find music of today which sounds
like the musik of yeasterday and which is perfect for social-dancing.
Hans-Peter Gollnow (Germany)
(Sorry my english ist not very good. After reading this list for two month this
is my second mail to the list! Yeah!)
End of TANGO-L Digest - 10 Nov 1999 to 11 Nov 1999 (#1999-60)
*************************************************************