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Digest from 24 May 1999
to 25 May 1999
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 24 May 1999 to 25 May 1999
There are 21 messages totalling 1175 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Weight being UPWARD (2)
2. marking stepping "in place"?
3. practice, practice, practice
4. UPWARDS... (5)
5. USA: Cambridge, MA "Tango by Moonlight" 1999 season
6. Weight being UPWARD (fwd) (2)
7. Direction of weight
8. Upward weight or Anti-Argentine Tango (AAT)
9. Inquiry
10. my nicest holiday experience ... (was Re: Are dancers Tango-concert
muzzle?)
11. (no subject)
12. Shoes for tall women (was: practice, practice, practice) (2)
13. mens shoes (was Re: Shoes for tall women (was: practice, practice,
practice))
14. Workshop with Omar Vega in Miami??
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 05:08:46 PDT
From: Pepito La Chofa <badchioce @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Weight being UPWARD
Hi Eva and list!
I believe Tangringo's answer to your point about upwards weight is -besides
funny- nearly irrefutable, and let's face it the teacher's names he dropped
are MORE famous than yours.
However, Tangringo is omitting, in a witty way, I take it, the metaphoric
function of language. But this is where you (and the teachers) also lose me
-what DO you mean by weight upwards?
In your explanation about the elephant feet you use the metaphor again to
explain the metaphor:
>...and you allow the weight in your upper-body to go upwards,
>then you will be free and happy around you hips...
It sounds very intriguing. Please elaborate. Thanx.
La vida es una milonga.
Eva Swingo wrote:
>Hello!
>Here comes a late comment (due to server problems)
>
>Mail Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999
>
> > > ... weight does NOT have to be downward. =20
> > Daniel Trenner does an exercise in which=20
> > both partners focus on the weight you give
> > > your partner being UPWARD.
> >
> > Forgive me Kate, but I have to ask this:
> >
> > Can you fly? ;-)
> >
> > Tangringo
> > ---
> Well, forgive ME, Tangringo, But Daniel Trenner is
>not the only famous teacher who speaks about a
>UPWARD-going weight, movement.
>
>Eric Jorissen and Susana Miller does the same. They
>talk about being heavy as an elephant in your feet, so
>as to be able to "fly" with your upper-body.
>If the weight in your feet goes downwards, and you
>allow the weight in your upper-body to go uppwards,
>then you will be free and happy around you hips, your
>body movements will be much more easy, dynamic.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:52:16 EDT
From: Sue Stigleman <sues @SHAMU.MTN.NCAHEC.ORG>
Subject: marking stepping "in place"?
Some background to my question:
I live in a city where there is some interest in Argentine
tango, but the only teacher here, who teaches
intermittently, teaches a very stage-oriented style of
tango. I am interested in tango as a social dance, which I
try to do when I'm in a city that has Argentine tango (just
danced 3 nights out of 4 that I spent in Seattle!) and I
travel to weekend workshops in North Carolina and in
Atlanta.
I am working with people in Asheville who are interested in
tango, trying to develop enough community to start bringing
in outside teachers for workshops. I'm doing a monthly
get-together where I try to teach a little bit of tango. I
would normally not be presumptuous enough to teach,
since I've been doing tango for less than a year, but at
this point, it's me or nothing, trying to show people that
tango can be done as a social dance. I have 2 partners,
but I am the one who's been attending workshops and then
bringing things back to try to teach them. Since I'm a
follower, this is kind of tricky. I did spend some of my
time at a workshop with Susana Miller this past weekend
working on some elementary leading.
I want to see if my understanding of the mark/follow for
one "step" is right. Often dancers will step from foot to
foot before beginning a dance to make sure their partner's
weight is one the correct foot. One of the toughest things
for me as a follower has been to learn to *not* just follow
my partner's weight changes but to wait until he indicates
that *my* weight should change. So why am I moving when he
does on this step? Is it because the leaders typically
have their feet farther apart than the followers, and
therefore when they shift weight to the other foot, their
shoulders move slightly but noticeably to that side? And
that as part of my striving to keep my shoulders parallel
and in line with his, I move to the side also? I know
leaders can also use arm pressure to move the follower from
side to side, but I'm trying as much as possible to
understand the leads from the body rather than the arms.
The more complicated scenario for this is where the leader
stands still but marks a weight change for the woman,
or conversely where he changes his weight while not
marking a weight change for the woman.
I'm going to try to set up a time to work with teacher in
Atlanta in person on this stuff, but I thought it would be
interesting to see what enlightenment people can manage to
put into words about this. <grin> and thanks!
--sue
Sue Stigleman, Librarian
Mountain Area Health Education Center (MAHEC)
501 Biltmore Avenue, Asheville, NC 28801-4686
(828) 257-4452 (828) 258-2099 (fax)
sues @shamu.mtn.ncahec.org
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:29:19 -0500
From: David Locke <dlocke @BINDVIEW.COM>
Subject: Re: Weight being UPWARD
Walter M. Kane said,
> I guess authority counts, so I will call on two teachers who are
even more
> famous, Isaac Newton and Galileo Galilei, who have demonstrated
with
> well-designed experiments, and explained with irrefutable logic,
that
> weight, a consequence of gravity, is always down. The concept may
be
> somewhat drab from an artistic point of view, but........
> (sorry)........... weight is
> D
> O
> W
> N
<snip>
Yes, gravity is applied down, but the center of gravity can and will
change. As a lead, you should have experienced the weight of your followers,
experienced followers are practically weightless, other followers can weight
a back breaking ton. The weight applied is independent of the person's
actual weight. It's a matter of how much of their weight is bore by their
own balance or center.
The whole point of this weight being UPWARD concept is to locate
your center of gravity. Trained dancers regardless of authority can put
their finger at some point in space and tell you it is their center. They
visualize where that center goes and it is the movement of that center that
gives them the momentum to make the impossible move.
There are other visualizations that instructors throw at us. Moving
like a cat was probably the last one I heard. Our tango gets to better as we
put all the moves we see in our kinetic memory. Our tango will further
approach excellence when we put our visualizations in our kinetic memory.
Then we will know our center.
David Locke
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:27:55 +0200
From: "Gabriella C. Marino" <gcmarino @IOL.IT>
Subject: Re: practice, practice, practice
Dear Christina,
I'm sending this to the whole list because it may be of use to tall people.
I'm not as tall as you but tall anyway (5'9) and I too sometimes think that shorter
teachers don't realise we can't do everything they do. However, my husband (who is
very tall) and I were pleasantly surprised by teachers Facundo y Kely (both 60 yrs
old) whom we were lucky enough to take private lessons with in Buenos Aires last
March.
I'm not sure how tall Facundo is, he's taller than me and only slightly shorter than
my husband, and he's really an excellent teacher. The reason we chose him was that
we saw him dance at a milonga and he was so elegant even though he was taller than
average. He immediately told us that tall dancers can't do the same figures as
shorter dancers because of longer limbs and less balance, and proceeded to teach us
slower figures which make the most of our long legs and make us look graceful vs.
gawky. He taught me how to elongate my leg properly as I step backwards and told us
to concentrate on walking slowly while stretching out our legs as far as they can go
(which is what everyone tells you but I don't know why it sounded better when he
said it).
Anyway I suggest you look Facundo y Kely up when they're in a town near you, it's
worth spending extra money on private lessons instead of workshops if you want to
correct a specific problem.
As for the straight vs. slightly bent leg, your leg should be straight (it looks
better) but relaxed, you shouldn't be holding it straight by tensing your muscles
like a ballet dancer otherwise you won't be ready to respond to the lead, and voleos
for instance will be especially difficult. This is also why heels should always be
on the ground, since this way muscles are relaxed. Tango was invented by people who
were not trained dancers and who moved very naturally without unnatural effort,
using the same muscles they used for walking (of course I'm not talking about tango
fantasia here). I know because I used to make the same mistakes and was fortunately
corrected in time by my friends Erica and Adrian of Tango X 2 who in turn learned it
from the very best, Miguel Zotto and Milena Plebs. They also told me that from the
waist upwards weight must go upwards and from the waist downwards it must make us
stick firmly to the ground, because tango is a very "down-to-earth" dance.
Happy tangos,
Gabriella
Italy
Christina Burtis wrote:
> What a great thing the Tango-L List is! Makes the transition between all those
> late night milongas and being at work bright & early the next day much more
> bearable. I have a few questions.
>
> (snip)
>
> II. HEIGHT. I am tall (5'11) with very long legs and have pretty much come to
> terms with it psychologically in my dancing. However, dealing with my height
> from a technical aspect has been a challenge esp. if my partner is shorter than
> myself. When I aim for a better tango form ("A" frame for example) in a walk, I
> compromise the lead. Though not overly not overly pronounced yet not
> comfortable either, its difficult to reach back with a straight leg and my body
> often looks a little bent in the middle. I'm finding this difficult to correct
> and a precise tango form hard to master when I'm simultaneously trying to follow
> well. I tend to attribute this technical difficulty to my height, but could it
> be something else? Do I need a different partner(s), different teacher(s), more
> practice (I've been happily for 1 year), practicing alone, or cross training
> with other dances? Is it a matter of keeping the ball of the foot of my
> reaching leg on the floor, the relative bend of the knee of my standing leg,
> pushing off of my standing leg, or stretching from the hip? Though not always
> correct form, I've noticed there is more power and response in a slightly bent
> leg. Any views or explanations of the mechanics?
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 07:53:26 -0700
From: Eva Swingo <eva_swingo @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: UPWARDS...
Hello again!
Tangringo wrote:
> I guess authority counts, so I will call on two
> teachers who are even more
> famous, Isaac Newton and Galileo Galilei, who have
> demonstrated with
> well-designed experiments, and explained with
> irrefutable logic, that
> weight, a consequence of gravity, is always down.
.....
> (sorry)........... weight is
>
> D
> O
> W
> N
........
WOW! That replay gave a HEAVY feeling...
And was certainly not up-lifting
A true dancer is imaginative! It calls for creativity,
especially being a leader.
A very old and famous axiome is :
ENERGY FOLLOWS THOUGHT.
What you think and believe in is what will become.
Visualizations are importent. If you think about your
own movements as being the movements of a CAT then
your Tango-style will improve considerably.
If you think of weight as going DOWN, and DOWN, you
will be too heavy to streighten your back enough to be
that proud Tanguero we all wish you to be.
Newton and Galilei belongs to a very old school of
physics. Much have changed since Einstein came along.
Future calls for creativity. I sincerely Hope Man is
still evolving!
Like I sincerely hope our knowledge of AT, as the art
of all dancing, is evolving.
Please! I am pleading on my knees that you will NOT
underestimate the now living teachers of AT. Why
should Galileo be more importent to AT dancers then AT
teatchers? Eric Jorissen has (one of?)the most famous
AT academy in Europe, Susana Miller is a talented lady
of BsAs, and I have seldom seen anyone who can nurse
the feeling of AT in their pupils more successfully
then these two.
And PLEASE do not let the art of being witty (semantic
coquetry) kill importent clues to learning.
Our balance gets a lot of help from the feeling of
heavily rooted elephant feets. Really grounded!! But
that is only from knees down.
Most of us know about this lifelong struggle for
balance and to keep our backs straight no matter what!
(Many of us work sitting down all day, at our
desks/computors etc, and keep on hunching, like we
were sitting down, resting, even when we are walking)
AT calls for a PROUD look. The leader to be proud to
show off his Lady. We need to be straight. But you
cannot just straighten up once and for all and think
that the proud feeling will stay there. It is a
continuous upwards movement. Like in physics,
Everything is Moving constantly!! (If not upwards,
downwards).Even if too small to see without a
microscope, the feeling must still be there, UPWARDS,
UPWARDS! From the CHEST that is. A feeling of a
spiral-movement, almost like a law of nature...
Then you will inspire each other to lift higher and
higher, supply a light feeling,instead of leaning more
and more heavily on each other inducing tiredness.
You will NOT gain anything from feeling that you are
a VICTIME of the laws of gravity, you must feel you
are the MASTER of it. We need to follow our dreams.
Sweet dreams everybody,
until next
EVA from Stockholm
=
Martha Graham said: Great dancers are not great
because of their technique, but because of their
passion."
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:01:03 +0100
From: Anne Atheling <atheling @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: USA: Cambridge, MA "Tango by Moonlight" 1999 season
TANGO BY MOONLIGHT on the Weeks Memorial Footbridge in Cambridge, MA.
By the light of the full moon shimmering over the rippling waters of the
Charles River in Cambridge, MA, join us to dance the Argentine Tango -
or just to watch and listen to the music.
Weather permitting, we will be dancing outdoors, right in the middle of
the Weeks Memorial Footbridge over the Charles River near Harvard
Square. Live Tango music may occasionally be provided by Amarcord.=20
The popular TANGO BY MOONLIGHT starts up again for the 1999
season on Saturday, May 29th, from 8-11PM on or near full-moon nights.
This is a truly unique event and, of course - it's FREE !
Dates for the 1999 season=20
Saturday, 29 May (rain date Sunday, 30 May)=20
Tuesday, 29 June (rain date Thursday, 1 July)=20
Tuesday, 27 July (rain date Thursday, 29 July)=20
Thursday, 26 August (rain date Friday, 27 August)=20
Saturday, 25 September (no rain date)=20
Saturday, 23 October (no rain date)
The Weeks pedestrian footbridge is located near Harvard Square, just
east of the JFK Street bridge that crosses the Charles River from
Harvard Square. The Cambridge access is on Memorial Drive, near Dewolfe
Street, and there is access from the Boston side too.
Rain dates are the following day or 2 days later, as indicated, but in
case of bad weather, call TangoLine=99 at 617-699-OCHO (-6246) for update=
s
or weather-related changes or cancellations.
Sponsored by The Tango Society of Boston, Inc. For more details,
visit:=A0http://www.bostontango.org/special-events/moonlight and for othe=
r
Argentine Tango news and events: http://www.bostontango.org
And an additional note of interest, a shot of the "Tango By Moonlight"
will be the opening scene in TANGO, DUEL and DANCE, a half hour
documentary on Argentine Tango on LA PLAZA, the Spanish culture program
on WGBH TV Channel 2, the PBS station in Massachusetts. The sequence was
filmed on the bridge in April - in elegant black tie ! The program will
air on Saturday June 19th from 6:30-7PM, with repeats on Wednesday, June
23 at 9PM and 10:30PM.
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:51:38 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt @EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Weight being UPWARD (fwd)
Walter,
Seems like you are having a good time putting the list on by
insisting that words can only be used as or if they have been defined by
physicists. Since you are intelligent I will assume you know that the
folks are not talking about how matter behaves in a gravitational field.
Though it may tickle you to pretend to misunderstand what they are talking
about, your posts are non sequiters and irrelevant to the subject.
Mechanical analysis may or may not be helpful in improving dance
performance, but that is not the topic.
Although initially taking a stand against Webster's dictionary and
the English language to insist that there should be only one definition of
the word "weight", might be regarded as droll, when obstinately maintained
it doesn't take long for the humor to wear thin. I gently ask you to
retire this routine.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Thornton
On Mon, 24 May 1999, Walter M. Kane wrote:
> From: Eva Swingo Sunday, May 23, 1999 8:54 AM
>
> Better late than never, Eva.
>
> > > > ... weight does NOT have to be downward....
> > > both partners focus on the weight you give
> > > > your partner being UPWARD.
> > >
> > > Forgive me Kate, but I have to ask this:
> > >
> > > Can you fly? ;-)
> > >
> > > Tangringo
> > > ---
> > Well, forgive ME, Tangringo, But Daniel Trenner is
> > not the only famous teacher who speaks about a
> > UPWARD-going weight, movement.
> >
> > Eric Jorissen and Susana Miller does the same.
>
> I guess authority counts, so I will call on two teachers who are even more
> famous, Isaac Newton and Galileo Galilei, who have demonstrated with
> well-designed experiments, and explained with irrefutable logic, that
> weight, a consequence of gravity, is always down. The concept may be
> somewhat drab from an artistic point of view, but........
> (sorry)........... weight is
>
> D
> O
> W
> N
>
> On second thought, perhaps there is a new methodology that hasn't reached
> the suburbs yet.......
> Lighter-than-air tango .........
> Helium-filled tango?..........
> Tango de los angeles?.........
> Tango con alas?
>
> I got it.........
> TANGO LIGHT !!!!!
>
> Tangringo
>
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 01:16:36 +0900
From: Chang Sang Hyeon <schang @TUHEP.PHYS.TOHOKU.AC.JP>
Subject: Direction of weight
As a better physicist than dancer, I want to comment this month old
subject. Yes, it is true, there is no way to change the weight or
direction of it. Maybe G and N are from old school, but they are
in the list of most intelligent people in our history.
What actually matter in this case is Torque, when you stand straight,
the torque you feel in almost zero. But if two person lean each other
you feel torque since your center of weight is not on your feet.
It gets stronger if your C.O.W. moves away from your feet.
Think about A frame, all of your weight which is not on your feet
will pull you down, and between your upper cheast and feet you
have nothing to balance this gravitational force.
It gives heavy feeling to your upper body and much labor on your feet,
since all part of your body is pulled downward and your feet should
balance the torque all the way from your upper cheast.
I guess what AT teachers are talking about is reducing this torque
and weight not on feet by having rather straight upper body.
In that case, you will have torque around your hip and your feet
will endure much less labor. Also, this time your upper body weight
is balanced between your hip and cheast and feel rather free from
your weight compare with A frame.
Well, I think it is just a matter of terminology. In Physics, definition
of weight is gravitational force. You cannot change it, but for Torque,
you can change it and even make it upward slightly. If shorter partner
bends her/his knee and back so that her/his upper body is a little bit
backward, while the taller partner slightly lean on his/her partner,
she/he can push her/his partner slightly upward. But who would want that
kind of frame?
Sanghyeon
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:18:07 -0400
From: "L: Anne-Sophie Ville" <Aville @WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject: Re: Weight being UPWARD (fwd)
Hello the List,
I am trying to contact Corina and Julio Balmaceida. I know that they a=
re
travelling right now. If you know how to contact them, please send me =
an email.
thanks for your help
ANSO
tanganso @hotmail.com
For info on the Bail=E1 Tango event in Washington DC, please visit the =
new website
at :
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Agency/1590/
**********************************************************************
"Great dancers are not great because of their technique;
they're great because of their passion." - Martha Graham
***************************************************************
=
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:11:53 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Re: UPWARDS...
>Hello again!
>
>Tangringo wrote:
>
>> I guess authority counts, so I will call on two
>> teachers who are even more
>> famous, Isaac Newton and Galileo Galilei, who have
>> demonstrated with
>> well-designed experiments, and explained with
>> irrefutable logic, that
>> weight, a consequence of gravity, is always down.
>.....
>> (sorry)........... weight is
>>
>> D
>> O
>> W
>> N
>........
>
>WOW! That replay gave a HEAVY feeling...
>And was certainly not up-lifting
>
>A true dancer is imaginative! It calls for creativity,
>especially being a leader.
>
>A very old and famous axiome is :
>ENERGY FOLLOWS THOUGHT.
Some tango dancers are poets and some are engineers.
Mechanical analysis can be helpful, but doesn't get at the poetic side. It
is like those people who have memorized several dozen figures, but can't
take them apart, let alone take a simple walk with feeling.
It is actually quite useful to imagine your weight or energy being cast
upwards, over your partner. This simple conceptualization helps find your
center of connection with your partner, and solves the problem of different
sized partners.
Of course the apple falls downward. But, Walter is being brutishly literal,
and ignores other meanings of the word "weight". I'm waiting for him to
deconstruct the following ideas:
Pass "Energy" to your partner.
Throw your "Energy" out so that the second balcony can feel it.
Take each step with exquisite "Density".
Tom Stermitz
2612 Clermont St
Denver, CO 80207
Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors
"On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory."
(303) 388 - 2560
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/
http://www.tango.org/dance/
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:54:54 -0400
From: Planet_Tango <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Upward weight or Anti-Argentine Tango (AAT)
You can't never judge a book by its cover nor the credibility of a
dancer by the "famous" people s/he quotes.
So giving a simple answer to a complex question that has the
intellectual minds from Stockholm, Denver and other leading centers of
tango research producing Nobel-class reading material, may be a bit of a
turn off for the passion-challenged set, but ... :-)
>Pepito La Chofa asks...
- what do you mean by weight upwards?
"To fill ballroom dancers's heads with hot air and convince them that
they are dancing 'argentine'?"
"To have the pockets emptied with novel techniques and exercises that
help move the center of gravity upwards to better substain hot air
filled egos."
TangoMan
"It's difficult to tango like a butterfly when your belly holds you to
the ground."
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:34:40 EDT
From: Jack Karako <JKarako @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Inquiry
The same song is also performed in Turkish, by a Turkish artist Nilufer.
Best
Jak
> From: Colette Jacquet <colliedo @YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Inquiry
> I recently heard "Tango for Evora" (the somewhat tepid
> song of Loreena
> McKennitt...) sung in Greek or Turkish, by a female
> singer. I know it's
> not a pure tango piece but the circumstances made it
> quite pleasant.
> The ones who attended the tango night at "Bayamo" in
> New York, where
> the song was played, will appreciate. If anyone out
> there has some info
> on this female vocalist, please kindly let me know.
> Jean-Pierre Jacquet
Hi Jean-Pierre,
the original music was written by Loreena McKennitt,
and the song in greek you heard was performed by a greek
chansoniere called Haris Alexiou, who also wrote the text
for the song.
Enjoy the Tango,
Garrit
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:47:29 +0200
From: Peter Niebert <Peter.Niebert @IMAG.FR>
Subject: my nicest holiday experience ... (was Re: Are dancers Tango-concert
muzzle?)
Hello,
here is some fresh update on a recent topic. It comes about after
I visited yesterday's ball at the Tangofolies in Lausanne with the
Sexteto Canyengue.
Call it "my nicest holiday experience with the Sexteto Canyengue" :-)
But before, a quote:
Jochen Herdel writes:
> When the fabulous Sexteto Canyengue was playing in Heidelberg & Karlsruhe
> last month, I was listening and watching both times to feel and understand
> every note, each syncope... I virtually sucked all the music in. It was so
> very very good.
[...]
> The best followers are the ones who feel the music (the way I do) and
> understand my lead's relationship to the music. To dance with those ladies
> is like magic.
Well, here is the story.
I was at this ball yesterday, for the first time to hear the Sexteto
Canyengue live. It was rather crowded (400+ participants at the
Tangofolies on the whole), and I did not know that many people, so I
invited some women at random.
With one of them dancing was *very* nice, and I was pleased and
astonished (an unfortunately rare experience) to that she really knew
the arrangements, so that we could find an interpretation together, that
there was an accord in the dance.
Results of the brief chat afterwards:
(a) she is DUTCH.
I think, ahhh, so this explains in part, why it was "very nice" :-)
Dutch women, they really have something. :-)
(b) she is the MANAGER of the Sexteto Canyengue (Thirza Lourens, I guess).
Do I need to say more?
So here is a manager who really appreciates - loves - her clients'
work!!!
Lucky Sexteto ...
Peter
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:25:08 -0500
From: Frank Williams <frank @INDY.BSBE.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: UPWARDS...
> Heyo Listero/as!
Just when you were hoping that this thread would die...
> Tom writes: Some tango dancers are poets and some are engineers.
And some are anatomists, not that it helps one to dance...
> It is actually quite useful to imagine your weight or energy being cast
> upwards, over your partner. This simple conceptualization helps find your
> center of connection with your partner, and solves the problem of different
> sized partners.
This is a little pedantic, but here goes...
Many new tango dancers have no clue about the importance of their posture and
the
relationship between their posture and their ability to relax. In the first
place, most
of us don't make a habit of "good" posture and when we hold ourselves really
erect,
we introduce all kinds of needless tension in our spines, ribs, shoulders,
etc. It can be
exhausting. In a very basic sense, our spines were designed for quadrapeds.
For those
of us with only two feet, holding ourselves in an upright tango posture will
require
muscular energy. Period. The key is to use *only* the muscles we need and
not
overtax the rotators and little flexors, and all the other spinal muscles that
simply
add distracting tension. These muscular systems are not well trained in most
of us.
[When was the last time you thought of working on your"back dexterity"?] So,
to help
us to learn to control and coordinate our low dexterity muscles without
distraction,
many useful analogies or mental constructs have been devised. Ridiculous from
a literal
standpoint or no, they help. Not equally well for everybody, but well enough
that they persist.
[The one that I think really stinks is "walk like a prowling cat", but that's
another story.]
[[You could just as frequently walk like the bulldog who sent the prowling cat
running!]]
However one chooses to conceptualize the necessary body feedback for good lead
and follow,
we agree that the experienced dancers always feel light regardless of their
energy level. I
think it comes from maintaining the best relationship between the hips and
upper torso. If one
is too far forward or back relative to the other then responsiveness is lost,
balance becomes compromised and the lead will require relatively great
effort. Maintaining that relationship
while remaining relaxed enough to rotate in the vertical axis is the key. In
my experience,
followers who are new to tango but can - from their other training - sense and
maintain a
good frame will be able to tango beautifully in no time.
What do you think about this?
Frank in Minneapolis
--
______________________________________________________________
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frank @indy.bsbe.umn.edu Department of Neuroscience
frank @biosci.cbs.umn.edu 4-144 Jackson Hall
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE.
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:42:49 EDT
From: Sherrie Pallotta <SherPal @AOL.COM>
Subject: (no subject)
Hi list, what is the weather like in BsAs in June and are the milongas at all
the ususal places like ideal and nino bien and cochabamba all up and running
this time of the year. Any teachers around in june and are there practicas
like in October or has everyone gone north. Need some help for wintering in
BsAs. Thanks, sherrie in cleveland.
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:22:23 -0400
From: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @FRONTIERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: UPWARDS...
From: Tom Stermitz Monday, May 24, 1999 12:11 PM
> Some tango dancers are poets and some are engineers.
As I indicated in an earlier post, the concept that "upward weight"
attempts to convey may be fine, but the terminology is imprecise at best,
and misleading at worst.
Some tango teachers can express themselves in clear, precise terms, and
some must rely on vague terminology and metaphors. Figures of speech are
useful devices when they paint the picture that helps the student or the
reader grasp the concept. If they turn reality on its head, however, they
are counterproductive.
Tell me to "grab the floor with my toes."
Tell me to "lenghthen" my supporting leg.
Tell me to "be grounded."
But please don't tell me that "down" is "up."
Jonathan Thornton writes Monday, May 24, 1999 11:51 AM
> Though it may tickle you to pretend to misunderstand what they are
talking
> about, your posts are non sequiters and irrelevant
I don't pretend to misunderstand, and I don't misunderstand what they are
talking about. What I am criticizing (hopefully in an inoffensive way), is
the poverty of language that compels a teacher to employ misleading
terminology to express important, fundamental concepts. My suggestion was
simply that they find a better word that "weight" to convey the notion of
an upward force.
Perhaps we can call on some of the less linguistically challenged tango
teachers to come up with a better word. How about "buoyancy"?
> ... Walter is being brutishly literal,
> and ignores other meanings of the word "weight"
For example??? (excluding non sequiters and irrelevant uses of the word, of
course)
> I'm waiting for him to
> deconstruct the following ideas:
>
> Pass "Energy" to your partner.
You'll wait forever for that one. Passing energy to one's partner is a
terrific way of expressing what we do when we mark a step (and it doesn't
voilate any laws of physics or English).
> Take each step with exquisite "Density".
Hmmmmmm.... Okay.... I might use that expression if I wanted to pander to a
particularly dense student ;-).
Tangringo
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:27:57 -0700
From: ramiro garcia <ramiro9 @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: UPWARDS...
--- Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET> wrote:
> >Hello again!
> >
> >Tangringo wrote:
> >
> >> ...Isaac Newton and Galileo Galilei, ...
> >> demonstrated ... that weight, a
> >> consequence of gravity, is always down.
> >.....
> >>
> >> D
> >> O
> >> W
> >> N
> >........
> >
> > ...
> >A true dancer is imaginative! It calls for
> creativity, especially being a leader.
> >
> >A very old and famous axiom is :
> >ENERGY FOLLOWS THOUGHT.
>
> Some tango dancers are poets and some are engineers.
>
> ...
>
> It is actually quite useful to imagine your weight
> or energy being cast upwards, over your partner.
> This ... helps find your center of connection
> with your partner, and solves the problem of
> different sized partners.
>
> ... Walter is being ... literal, and ignores
> other meanings of the word "weight". I'm
> waiting for him to deconstruct the
> following ideas:
>
> Pass "Energy" to your partner.
>
> Throw your "Energy" out so that the second balcony
> can feel it.
>
> Take each step with exquisite "Density".
>
> Tom Stermitz
> ...
> stermitz @ragtime.org
How about, "Use the Force, Luke"?
ramiro
ramiro9 @yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:46:55 +0200
From: "Gabriella C. Marino" <gcmarino @IOL.IT>
Subject: Shoes for tall women (was: practice, practice, practice)
I'd already posted an answer/comment to Christina's message about tall women and now
I'd like to add something else which I don't think anyone else has said. Tall women
and men obviously have shoe sizes to match. I've been reading a lot about female
dancers buying regular street shoes to dance in but one thing is if you are a size
36 and another if you (like me) are a size 40 (which I think is a 9 or a 10 in the
US).
I began to learn tango using a pair of suede-soled shoes bought in an Italian dance
store and it was impossible for me to put any weight onto the heel because it wasn't
stable enough. Obviously the distance between toe and heel increases with the shoe
size, so if the sole is too flexible it won't support your weight properly because
the heel part will start wobbling and twisting. However, if the sole is too hard you
won't be able to move! When I got my first shoes from Flabella I immediately felt
the difference and had to re-learn to dance. I've since gotten two more pairs from
Flabella and one from Fattomano and love all of them. They are so stable and
comfortable and I've yet to find an equivalent street shoe although I live in Italy
where shoes are very good.
The professional female tango dancers I know all take a size 35-36 while the men
take a size 40. No wonder my husband and I find fancy footwork difficult when we are
each wearing shoes which are 5 sizes larger than needed!
Happy tangos,
Gabriella
Italy
Christina Burtis wrote:
> III. BALANCE. Balance is also a challenge. Let's talk physics- I have more to
> control vertically. It can sometimes take a split second longer for me to "be
> there" in my response to the lead. Sometimes I feel that my shorter partners do
> not realize that my center of gravity is different than dancers who are 5'2, and
> they are working with something a little lower. (I am talking about a center of
> balance here.) This "skyscraper-i-tus" is more evident when they attempt cheap
> fantasia moves. Any views or suggestions?
>
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:26:10 -0700
From: Pat Cummings <drpat @AHT.COM>
Subject: Re: Shoes for tall women (was: practice, practice, practice)
I am not especially tall (I am about an inch shorter than Gabriella...), =
but I am heavy. When I first began dancing, I found immediately that =
some street shoes were dangerous to dance in, for the same reason =
Gabriella cited: the sole would flex, allowing the heel to "scoot" out =
to one side. In dances with heel leads, this can cause problems from =
simple fatigue to twisted ankles. In AT, it can interfere with your =
balance.
My teachers in that first ballroom class told me to dance only in shoes =
with a steel tang. This tang should be anchored to the heel piece, and =
extend down the arch of the shoe at least half-way to the flat of the =
sole (which goes under the ball of the foot). Most ballroom dance shoes =
are made with a steel tang.
I also check my street shoes with heels for this feature, too. If the =
shoes don't have it, I won't buy them.
Such a steel tang cannot protect you from skidding or turning your ankle =
if you place your weight on the heel too far off-center, but it does =
prevent the shoe heel from flexing.
--Pat =20
--(of Pat&Ken)
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:10:18 -0700
From: Manuel Patino <manuelp @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: mens shoes (was Re: Shoes for tall women (was: practice,
practice, practice))
I've found that mens dance shoes tend to be rather flimsy affairs. If I
could find more street shoes with a decent fit, lace up and *real* leather
soles I would use them exclusively. I buy and wear out a lot of Capezio
dance shoes. I once paid over $100 for a pair of Freeman ball room dance
shoes and they were a joke! I've still got them and wear them but they are
nothing special and the construction is not to sturdy.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer dance shoes to street shoes for dancing but
only because of the particular style or shape if you will. As far as
sturdiness and durability they are inferior to decent street shoes and quite
a bit more expensive. I've also bought several pairs of Flabela shoes in
BsAs and although the look is terrific the fit is hit or miss. Based on
other peoples experience I will not have any shoes custom made so I just buy
whatever comes closest to fitting in the store stock. I have not worn my
Flabella shoes too much as the uppers are rather delicate (suede and patent
leather). I don't know how they would compare with Capezios or those English
ballroom shoes. The others are a beautiful pair of lizzard skin shoes but I
might have bought them on impulse as I find now that they might take quite a
good bit of "breaking in"
It may be quite different for women but in my opinion and experience, good
street shoes are far superior in comfort and durability to the dance shoes
I've had so far.
your mileage might vary,
Manuel
Original Message -----
From: Pat Cummings <drpat @AHT.COM>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Shoes for tall women (was: practice, practice, practice)
I am not especially tall (I am about an inch shorter than Gabriella...), but
I am heavy. When I first began dancing, I found immediately that some
street shoes were dangerous to dance in, for the same reason Gabriella
cited: the sole would flex, allowing the heel to "scoot" out to one side.
In dances with heel leads, this can cause problems from simple fatigue to
twisted ankles. In AT, it can interfere with your balance.
My teachers in that first ballroom class told me to dance only in shoes with
a steel tang. This tang should be anchored to the heel piece, and extend
down the arch of the shoe at least half-way to the flat of the sole (which
goes under the ball of the foot). Most ballroom dance shoes are made with a
steel tang.
I also check my street shoes with heels for this feature, too. If the shoes
don't have it, I won't buy them.
Such a steel tang cannot protect you from skidding or turning your ankle if
you place your weight on the heel too far off-center, but it does prevent
the shoe heel from flexing.
--Pat
--(of Pat&Ken)
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:37:37 +0200
From: Christel Knorrn <christel.knorrn @BERTELSMANN.DE>
Subject: Workshop with Omar Vega in Miami??
Hello,
could anyone give me some information if there is a workshop in June =
with
Omar Vega in Miami and can give me the name/fax of the contact person?
Thanx
Christel
> Christel Knorrn
> BMG Ariola M=FCnchen
> Nationale Label
> Steinhauser Str.1-3 phone:089/4136 401
> 81677 M=FCnchen fax: 089/4136 146
> Deutschland mailto:christel.knorrn @bertelsmann.de
>=20
>=20
>=20
End of TANGO-L Digest - 24 May 1999 to 25 May 1999
**************************************************