The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 28 Jun 1999
to 29 Jun 1999
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Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 03:00:04 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 28 Jun 1999 to 29 Jun 1999
There are 11 messages totalling 402 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. About the New Tango, Fabian, Gustavo and Co. (2)
2. New Tango... (2)
3. Locale-Specific Postings [Traffic Citations]
4. cortinas in BSAs
5. Tango Styles
6. Locale-Specific Postings [epilogue -- a lesson?] (2)
7. Dough for Tango
8. help!
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:13:07 +0200
From: Alexis Cousein <al @BRUSSELS.SGI.COM>
Subject: Re: About the New Tango, Fabian, Gustavo and Co.
Claude Dumont wrote:
>
> Answer to Larrydla about the New Tango.
>
> About 3 years ago while mainly living in BsAs, I regulary attended
> the well-know Cochabamba 444, the practica of Gustavo Naveira,
> where the evolution of what some people are probably calling
> the New Tango.
> I never heard the terme here in BsAs (only Tango Nuevo by Piazola)
> but I think I know wath is meant by it.
>
> This kind of Tango dancing ist not for everyone. In my opinion (and
> from a lot of other peoples in BsAs too)
Any opinion about a particular person can be heard "from a lot of people
in BsAs" -- be it an opinion about Gustavo or anyone else.
Have you ever seen Gustavo dance, or teach? I've had nothing but praises
for Gustavo from *all* the women who had their partners follow Gustavo's
week at Neuchatel -- if what you told is true, they must surely all be
incredibly masochistic?
> Why " for egocentric...etc"
> If a couple is dancing this style (like Gustavo) they need a minimum
> space of 2x2m!
It is a style that someone like Gustavo only dances when he *does* have
2x2m. I've seen him at "regular" milongas as well, and he adapts pretty
well.
I am not particularly at awe of anyone who comes on this forum to
classify the flock into two separate groups, only to demonize one of the
groups (placing himself, of course, squarely in the other group). Tango
has many forms, even for one particular person, depending on the music,
the mood, the other person, and the occasion. To try to deny that is, in
my opinion, very egocentric ;).
--
<standard disclaimer: these are my personal views, not SGI's>
Alexis Cousein al @brussels.sgi.com
Systems Engineer SGI Belgium
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:42:55 +0200
From: Peter Niebert <Peter.Niebert @IMAG.FR>
Subject: Re: New Tango...
Brannigan, Mary writes:
> And from the scores of women who wait to dance with Fabian and Gustavo
> (and then gush about the experience afterwards), there must be a lot of
> women out there who really like dancing alone. ;-)
That does not say much. It is reported that women stood in line to
make love with Napoleon. You know, this ugly little French man who
terrorized Europe some time ago. It was not reported that he was a
great lover, though ...
The motives for standing in line to dance with a celebrity, and also
the experiences gathered in such a dance, are sometimes ambiguous.
However, on Gustavo's visit in Lyon some weeks ago I did not notice
this line of women waiting to dance with him after his performance
with Giselle Anne. It was a cold and technical performance, without
any soul. It was a demonstration, if for anything, meant to
intimidate.
I have seen older videos of Naveira, where you can see his catlike
walk, also I saw him on milongas in northern Germany some time ago
(and yes, there were some women enjoying him). A truly great and
innovative dancer. Maybe somewhat introvert and intellectual. A
personality with particularities, great but not flawless. I looked up
to him.
Now, he seems to think that he is a great man and has to show it all
the time. But truly great men don't need to show off. He wants to be
the greatest of all Tango dancers. But there is no greatest of all,
what counts is the personality. He is not cool, and he compensates
that by arrogance. That is sympathetic.
Peter
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:48:09 +0200
From: Alexis Cousein <al @BRUSSELS.SGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Locale-Specific Postings [Traffic Citations]
"Walter M. Kane" wrote:
> Conviction of DWI (Dancing while intoxicated), or TUI (Tangoing under the
> influence) is punishable by having to sit out the next two tandas, and
> lifetime prohibition from dancing to cortinas.
Well, some of the real (Argentine) milongueros I was/am very fond of
would never have danced very often with these rules.
--
<standard disclaimer: these are my personal views, not SGI's>
Alexis Cousein al @brussels.sgi.com
Systems Engineer SGI Belgium
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:08:58 +0200
From: hilliges patricia <phillig @TIN.IT>
Subject: cortinas in BSAs
Answer to Brad:
My experience in BsAs was that they put every kind od music as cortinas
and above all not danceable pieces. For example in the Confiteria Ideal
they played for some time the film music of Dallas ...
Ciao Patricia
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:09:04 EDT
From: Victor Crichton <victor_vsc @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango Styles
As long as there is Tango, there will be different styles that one can
choose to dance. Human nature, being what it is, there will probably always
be emotion filled arguments on which style is best or worst.
If you like the style of Gustavo, Fabian, Chicho, etc learn that way and
enjoy it. It you don't like that style, don't dance that way. If you want
to present your point of view in support of that style or your reasons for
not liking it, fine. But when you have to resort to name calling and
insulting ones choice of clothing it only shows that your points have no
real validity.
If you don't like the way Chicho dressed, don't dress like that. But
what does the way he dresses have to do with how he dances? People of
different generations express themselves in different ways. One of those
ways is how they dress. Do you dress the same as your father/mother or wear
your hair the same way? This has nothing to do with Tango. I may choose to
dress like Chicho and prefer to dance like Tete or perhaps to dress like
Tete and dance like Chicho.
As long as we respect the laws of society there is nothing wrong with
expressing ourselves. We are all individuals and have a right to be unique.
I was a participant at CITA and felt that I got much more than my money's
worth. Enough that I will return for CITA again next year. However, I
wouldn't want to come if I thought that all of the teachers danced the same
way. It is the very diversity itself that makes Tango so wonderful. I for
one am very grateful that Gustavo and Fabian took the time and energy to
organize CITA and am thankful that they will do so again. It is also nice
to know that they are open minded enough to have presented many teachers
that teach many different styles.
I don't buy the argument that they are clones either. Though there is
some similarity in their dancing, they also each have a style of their own.
I for one can see a great difference in the way each of them expresses
themselves through their dancing. They also teach differently. What comes
from all of them, as well as all of the other teachers I met at CITA, is
their obvious love of Tango.
It is that very love of Tango that makes as argue so emotionally about
what we believe is right or wrong and I appreciate that we have this list to
express our opinions and to hear the opinions of others.
In whatever style you prefer, I wish you many passionate Tangos!
Victor Crichton
Florida, USA
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:33:14 -0400
From: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @FRONTIERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Locale-Specific Postings [epilogue -- a lesson?]
Dear Listeros,
The recent go 'round on this subject, including lots of private mail I
received (and sent) brings home a point that many of us forget sometimes.
That is, that we should try to give the cold words of e-mail messages the
benefit of the doubt when they appear to sound offensive or
"condescending." It's too easy to take offense at
words when you can't see the wink in the eye of the writer. It's often
there, with or without the ;-).
Tangringo
____________________
Walter M. (Tangringo) Kane
Harriman, NY
oldzeid @frontiernet.net
Visit us at Hudson Valley Tango
http://nycdc.com/hvtango
===================
Tango Lyrics in Spanish and English at
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/letras.htm
Por el fomento y progreso del Tango
===================
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:19:18 -0400
From: Nitin Kibe <NKibe @IFC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dough for Tango
Greetings, List.
As a very pleased attendee of CITA, I must say that I think I received good
value. Were the same or similar offerings available locally for less? Of
course there were.
But, not knowing the ropes, would I have spent a largish sum of money to come
sight unseen to Bs As hoping that in my limited time, in a strange city, with
limited language skills, I would be able to locate the right teachers and have
the right experience? Probably not.
I am as keen as the next person to save money, but sometimes in life there are
other things at stake too. As long as I feel that value has been received
overall, good enough.
That said, I would welcome any future reductions in price for the next CITA or
more multi-track offerings.
Regards to all
Nitin Kibe
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:24:06 EDT
From: Rebecca Adams <JstRebecca @AOL.COM>
Subject: help!
Hi,
sorry to bother you all with this, but here goes...
I need to sign off from the listserv. Does anyone remember how?
thanks!
Rebecca
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:50:41 -0700
From: Eva Swingo <eva_swingo @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Locale-Specific Postings [epilogue -- a lesson?]
It can be said again:
Too many "winks in the eye" can be deadly tiring.
With or without smileys.
EVA
--- "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @FRONTIERNET.NET> wrote:
> Dear Listeros,
>
> The recent go 'round on this subject, including lots
> of private mail I
> received (and sent) brings home a point that many of
> us forget sometimes.
> That is, that we should try to give the cold words
> of e-mail messages the
> benefit of the doubt when they appear to sound
> offensive or
> "condescending." It's too easy to take offense at
> words when you can't see the wink in the eye of the
> writer. It's often
> there, with or without the ;-).
>
> Tangringo
> ____________________
> Walter M. (Tangringo) Kane
> Harriman, NY
> oldzeid @frontiernet.net
>
> Visit us at Hudson Valley Tango
> http://nycdc.com/hvtango
> ===================
> Tango Lyrics in Spanish and English at
> http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/letras.htm
> Por el fomento y progreso del Tango
> ===================
>
===
"Dancers are not great because of their technique,
but because of their passion." MARTHA GRAHAM
"People do not stop dancing because they get old,
They get old because they stop dancing!" Anonymous
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:20:18 +1100
From: Gavin Dixon <gavind @MED.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About the New Tango, Fabian, Gustavo and Co.
Alexis wrote:
>It is a style that someone like Gustavo only dances when he *does* have
>2x2m. I've seen him at "regular" milongas as well, and he adapts pretty
>well.
Ditto with Fabian. I watched him at Re Fa Si one particularly packed Monday
night and he modified his normal style beautifully. There was one set where
he and El Indio were in close proximity - the comparison was worth the
entry price alone.
Gavin
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:14:30 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: New Tango...
>Brannigan, Mary writes:
> > And from the scores of women who wait to dance with Fabian and Gustavo
> > (and then gush about the experience afterwards), there must be a lot of
> > women out there who really like dancing alone. ;-)
Peter Niebert writes:
>That does not say much. It is reported that women stood in line to
>make love with Napoleon. You know, this ugly little French man who
>terrorized Europe some time ago. It was not reported that he was a
>great lover, though ...
>
>The motives for standing in line to dance with a celebrity, and also
>the experiences gathered in such a dance, are sometimes ambiguous.
Did you intend to so casually insult the women on this list, or is it just
your natural attitudes shining through? Too bad you apparently have never
experienced dancing with someone at a level so far above you own that the
dance itself becomes a moment of joy you will always remember.
I have never danced with Gustavo, but I have seen him dance, very
beautifully. I have also heard he is a difficult and arrogant man. Since I
would not be expecting to become his friend, that is rather irrelevant to
his ability to teach and perform.
I have danced many times with Fabian Salas, a few times with Pablo Veron,
and many times with Metin Yazir. Women are eager to dance with them because
it is a fantastic experience. With the lightest possible touch you are lead
into moves, steps, patterns you did not know you could execute, and you are
doing them with more grace and elegance than you ever imagined. The
sensation is like flying, but you are doing it WITH someone. Sheer bliss.
Who would not stand in line for a chance at that? And who the heck are you
to denigrate it into some kind of groupie fandome? The allure of tango (for
many of us) is its difficulty, and subtlety, and the fleeting, transforming
moment when partner, music and moment combine. When the music ends and you
are a little stunned by the experience and have to hold onto your partner
before you can even walk away.
Based on your message I doubt you have any idea what I'm talking about. You
are welcome to your opinions about tango, but I hope you will keep your
neanderthal opinions about women to yourself.
Melinda
End of TANGO-L Digest - 28 Jun 1999 to 29 Jun 1999
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