The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 17 Jun 1999
to 18 Jun 1999
Return-Path: owner-TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 03:00:04 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 17 Jun 1999 to 18 Jun 1999
There are 11 messages totalling 559 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Daniel Trenner
2. Re[2]: Mail failure [NOT!]
3. AGUSTINA & CLAUDIO WORKSHOPS
4. Mail failure [NOT!]
5. Baila Tango - New York Changes
6. el brujo
7. Tango at Montreal Jazz Fest?
8. The Perfect Follower (2)
9. Inviting the follower into a milongero style frame
10. Tango in St Petersburg and Helsinki
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:02:03 +0200
From: Raimund Schlie <kbb @PODEWIL.DE>
Subject: Daniel Trenner
hol=E1 listeros,
I send this message in german because it addresses mostly people in and
around Berlin.
Greetings from B.
Raimund
Daniel Trenner in Berlin
Tango Argentino
Daniel Trenner (USA) ist bekannt geworden als innovativer Tangolehrer
und hat allein in den USA Tausende von T=E4nzern unterrichtet. Seine
Unterrichtsmethoden hat er vor dem Hintergrund von 24 Jahren Erfahrung
contemporary und jazz dance sowie 11 Jahren Tango Argentino entwickelt.
Daniel Trenner betrachtet den Tango Argentino nicht als starres und
abgeschlossenes System sondern als lebendigen sozialen Tanz, der auch
neue Entwicklungen zum Beispiel in der Rollenverteilung Mann/Frau
reflektiert. In seinem Unterricht tanzen alle Teilnehmer beide Rollen.
Er leitet das Programm "Bridge to the Tango" mit Tangoreisen nach
Argentinien und in die ganze Welt, das Montreal Tango Festival und das
Boston Tango Program. Daniel hat intensiv gearbeitet mit Antonio Todaro,
Miguel und Nely Balmeceda, Pepito Avelleneda, Esther und Mingo Pugliese,
Tete Rusconi, Juan Bruno, Rudolfo und Maria Ceiri, Tomi O'Conell,
Eduardo Arquimbau, Pocho Pizzaro, Pupi Castello, Graciela Gonzalez,
Gustavo Naveira und Olga Besio.
Ende Juni/Anfang Juli 99 ist Daniel Trenner mit "Bridge to the Tango" in
Berlin zu Gast und gibt bei "Tanzart" vom 1. bis 3. Juli Workshops.
Folgende Workshops werden angeboten:
1. Neuer Tango - der Wechsel von F=FChren und Folgen: In einer Reihe von
=DCbungen (Daniel nennt sie "Spiele") mit Elementen des Tango soll
ausgelotet werden, was passiert, wenn die T=E4nzer und T=E4nzerinnen wirl=
ich
beide Rollen kennen und mit ihnen im Tanzflu=DF umgehen. Ziel ist die
Weiterentwicklung der M=F6glichkeiten im Tango, was m=F6glicherweise auf =
die
Entwicklung eines neuen sozialen Tanzes hindeutet. Dieser Kurs wendet
sich an fortgeschrittene T=E4nzerinnen und T=E4nzer, die praktische
Erfahrung in beiden Rollen haben.
Termine:
Donnerstag 1. Juli 20:30 - 22:00 Uhr
Samstag 3. Juli 16-17:30 Uhr
2. Richtungswechsel in Drehungen: auch alterierte Drehungen genannt und
bekannt geworden durch Gustavo und Chicho, sind eine der
interessantesten Neuentdeckungen im Tango. Methodisch sollen die
grundlegenden Elemente von Richtungswechseln entwickelt werden, um ein
Verst=E4ndnis f=FCr deren Struktur und Einsetzbarkeit aufzubauen.
Termine:
Freitag 2. Juli 20-21:30 Uhr
Samstag 3. Juli 18-19:30 Uhr
Kosten pro Kurs: 120 DM pro Teilnehmer
Ort: Tanzart, Hasenheide 54 (N=E4he U-S=FCdstern)
Anmeldung: 692 26 23 oder 85 60 34 15 oder direkt bei Tanzart
--
*************************************************************
Raimund Schlie Podewil - KBB
Klosterstrasse 68-70 10179 Berlin
tel (work): +49+30-247 49 750
fax (work): +49+30-247 49 700
tel (home): +49+30-85 60 34 15
email: kbb @podewil.de
*************************************************************
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:57:00 -0400
From: Michael Ditkoff <Michael.B.Ditkoff @USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: Re[2]: Mail failure [NOT!]
Message authorized by:
: oldzeid @frontiernet.net_at_inetgw2 at wtgate
Walter:
I think I figured it out. Read the message carefully. The mail failure note
isn't from the Administrator. It's from the system and it says that one of
the
addresses on the list isn't valid and it gives the name. This is identical
to
mistyping an email address with aol.com in the name. AOL searches for the
address and if it can't be found, returns a message from the AOL postmaster
saying "message undeliverable."
Don't worry about it. It probably means that somebody left the network
permanently but didn't unsubscribe from the list. The list continues to send
messages to the address.
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Mail failure [NOT!]
Author: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU_at_inetgw2 at wtgate
Date: 6/16/99 3:27 PM
Dear Listeros,
Does anyone know why, whenever I post a message to the list, I receive a
"Mail failure" note from the Administrator.
> From: Adminstrator <POSTMASTER @diana.akerusa.com>
> To: Walter M. Kane <oldzeid @frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Mail failure
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:00 PM
>
> TO: Walter M. Kane DATE:
06/16/99
> TIME:
13:59
> SUBJECT: Mail failure
>
--
>
> User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses:
> aoi/main/rgschoenberg
>
>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:55:52 EDT
From: "J. Martinez" <DancinSalr @AOL.COM>
Subject: AGUSTINA & CLAUDIO WORKSHOPS
GREETINGS,
For all those interested in something a little different and who will
be in New York next week, check out Agustina Videla and Claudio Asprea.
Starting Monday, June 21st and continuing for a week, they will be teaching a
series of workshops covering a variety of tango styles and techniques.
Join them for a welcome reception at the Stepping Out Thursday Night
Practica, tonight at 9pm. They will be performing at La Belle Epoque on
Friday, June 18th, and at Esmeralda's Tango Salon on Friday, June 25th.
For more information on their teaching schedule and the workshops,
please call (212) 245-5200, Stepping Out Dance Studios.
Hope to see you there.
Thanks,
Johnny Martinez
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:34:22 -0400
From: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @FRONTIERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Mail failure [NOT!]
Thanks to all who helped me figure out that the mail failures were not my
failures, or my system's failures, but the failure of a subscriber to
inform the List postmaster that his server is no longer receiving mail.
I feel much better now.
Tangringo
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:00:48 EDT
From: Jack Karako <JKarako @AOL.COM>
Subject: Baila Tango - New York Changes
We are moving - We are moving - We are moving
Last Saturday Night with "Baila Tango" for the summer.
June 19th
Come and join us for the LAST SATURDAY NIGHT PARTY of the season at
"Ballroom on Fifth" 319 5th Ave. New York
9:30 PM - We will be open until at least 2:00AM if there's one couple
dancing...
NEXT NEXT NEXT
Sundays 12:00 - 2:30 PM Tango Brunch - Starting June 27th
Then we are moving to a very pretty restaurant on the east side with outdoors
dancing space.
150 E 34th St. (between Lex & 3rd) - Sonia Rose Restaurant
No cover.
Please drop me a line if you are planning to join us (the restaurant asked us
to give an estimate)
For more info about Tango instruction please e-mail me Jkarako @BailaTango.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:21:27 +0200
From: Raimund Schlie <kbb @PODEWIL.DE>
Subject: el brujo
Hi List,
this is a message for people in & around Germany so its in german:
am 17. und 18 Juli 99 wird das erste mal =FCberhaupt Eduardo Cappussi mit
Mariana Flores
in Berlin unterrichten:
Eduardo Cappussi war der umjubelte Star auf der Abschlussveranstaltung
des Congreso Internacional de Tango Argentino (CITA) - Buenos Aires
1999. Wer in den letzten Jahren in Buenos Aires war, konnte Eduardo in
den Milongas nicht =FCbersehen. Seine auff=E4llige Erscheinung und sein
origineller Tanzstil machten ihn zu einem der bekanntesten T=E4nzer in de=
r
Stadt. Eduardo hat einen sehr authentischen und rhythmischen Tango
entwickelt, der solide Technik mit einer Vorliebe f=FCr "traspies"
(rhythmische Bewegungsverdoppelungen) vereint. Dies ist besonders in der
Milonga sehr interessant, dem Schwerpunkt dieses Wochenendes.
In den letzten Jahren hat sich Eduardo auch einen hervorragenden Ruf als
Lehrer erworben und kommt nach Tourneen durch Australien und die USA mit
seiner Partnerin Mariana Flores das erstemal nach Europa und nach
Berlin. Mariana hat eine klassische Tanzausbildung und arbeitete als
Schauspielerin (mit dem staatlichen Titel "Actrice National") bevor sie
sich ganz dem Tango und der Arbeit mit Eduardo widmete. Ihre St=E4rke
liegt im Ausdruck und in der Vermittlung der Technik speziell f=FCr
Frauen, die sie von Graciella Gonz=E1lez vermittelt bekommen hat.
Die beiden bieten einen gr=FCndlich strukturierten Unterricht f=FCr F=FCh=
rende
und Folgende, in dem Technik mit t=E4nzerischem Ausdruck verbunden werden
sollen. Dabei gibt es keine Stilvorgaben, die Teilnehmer sind frei, auf
Grundlage der unterrichteten Techniken eigene Formen zu finden.
Die Kurse:
Tango: Sa 17.7. 14-16/So 18.7. 12-14
Milonga 1: Sa 16:30-18:30/So 14:30-16:30
Milonga 2: Sa 19-21/So 17-19
Tango und Milonga 2 ist f=FCr "Fortgeschrittene", Milonga 1 f=FCr
"Mittelstufe"
Kosten:
120 DM pro Kurs/Person
130 DM pro Einzelstunde (nach Vereinbarung) pro Paar (es unterrichten
beide)
Auf Wunsch k=F6nnen kleinere Gruppen gebildet werden; der Preis orientier=
t
sich an einer Einzelstunde, mit jedem zus=E4tzlichen Paar kostet die
Stunde 20 DM weniger.
Ort: Podewil
Klosterstrasse 68-70
U-Klosterstrasse/U + S Alexanderplatz
Anmeldung: 85 60 34 15 (Raimund)
--
*************************************************************
Raimund Schlie Podewil - KBB
Klosterstrasse 68-70 10179 Berlin
tel (work): +49+30-247 49 750
fax (work): +49+30-247 49 700
tel (home): +49+30-85 60 34 15
email: kbb @podewil.de
*************************************************************
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:13:58 -0400
From: Robinne Gray <rlg2 @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Tango at Montreal Jazz Fest?
A group of upstate NY tangueros makes an annual journey to Montreal for the
jazz festival and after-hours tango. In preparation I've been looking at
the schedule on the festival website (www.montrealjazzfest.com) and saw the
following:
Friday, July 2nd, 6pm
NY Tango
en rappel avec Bireli
Lagr=E8ne, AI Foster et
George Mraz
Jazz Club=20
Spectrum de Montr=E9al
Can anyone provide more information about these folks? I don't recognize
the names.
--Robinne
Ithaca, NY
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:31:00 -0400
From: Michael Ditkoff <Michael.B.Ditkoff @USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: The Perfect Follower
Mitchell ignited a lot of discussion on the perfect follow.
First, on repeating a figure numerous times. There's a
difference in learning a figure and dancing the same figure.
My teacher can instruct me on a figure at Saturday 2 PM and
the same night at 9:17 I can't lead it all. What happened?
I've learned from my yoga therapy (which has drastically
improved my dancing) that a person has a mind, body, and soul.
When all three are lined up like a solar eclipse, you're in
ecstasy. Anyway, your brain learns the figure in class but you
dance with your body at milongas! It takes much longer for the
body to learn and feel the figure than for the brain to learn
the figure. Right now, I'm struggling with inserting ochos in
an open box. My mind is overwhelmed trying to remember how to
exit. My instructor said "Concentrate on your partner. If she
turns right on the exit, you turn right." I was trying to
learn cerebrally instead of with my body.
The second issue was mistakes on the floor. My ballroom
teacher told me and my AT teacher reinforced in me that if the
man steps on the woman's foot, it's the WOMAN'S fault because
she didn't get it out of the way. Everything else, is the
MAN'S fault. (That seemed fair to my ex-girlfriend!) Being a
leader has a lot of responsibility, just like driving a car.
If you are caught driving your date in a speeding car, the
police give the YOU, THE DRIVER the ticket, not the date. (I
wonder how many men turn around and then blame their date for
the ticket.) I see it done on the dance floor.
When a mistake happens, I just tell my partner one of the
following "I wonder what I did wrong. That didn't work. Can we
try that again?"
Tango is a team dance. Either BOTH of us got it right or BOTH
of us got it wrong. The expression "It takes two to tango" now
makes more sense.
I feel constrained to elaborate further because I'm a
contributing writer to the "Voz del Tango" magazine and I've
submitted an article on this subject. The editor wants
subscriptions, not free articles on the list, which I
understand.
Lastly, dancing in milonguero style. It's the woman's
decision. Some go directly to it while others move into the
style during the dance. When dancing with a stranger for the
first time, I limit my moves to walking, crossing, and ochos.
If a woman feels comfortable with my lead, I'll add a stepover
and give her a chance to play. If we have chemistry, I'll ask
her to continue dancing with me. Somehow, she dances closer.
Dancing in milonguero style is extremely difficult because the
man's line of sight is gone and footwork must be flawless
because there's no room for mistake (figuratively and
literally). The woman wants to feel comfortable with the man
as a person and as a dancer.
Also, women check out the men while they wait to dance: who
dances milonguero style, who leads well, etc. I don't want to
make you paranoid, but women silently observe.
When there are perfect leaders, there will be perfect
followers.
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:43:55 +0100
From: Manuel Patino <manuelp @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: The Perfect Follower
Original Message-----
From: Michael Ditkoff <Michael.B.Ditkoff @USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: The Perfect Follower
Major snippage
> Tango is a team dance. Either BOTH of us got it right or BOTH
> of us got it wrong. The expression "It takes two to tango" now
> makes more sense.
This is emminently true. It does take two to tango and both must contribute
to the dance. It seems to be easier for a less skilled follower to dance
well with the guidance of a skilled leader, but no amount of skill in the
leader can make the follower overcome a big lack of skill or technique.
OTOH, the less experienced or less skilled the leader, the more difficult it
is for a follower to "fix". Even the best followers can do very little to
overcome "missleading" in the part of their dance partner.
> Dancing in milonguero style is extremely difficult because the
> man's line of sight is gone and footwork must be flawless
> because there's no room for mistake (figuratively and
> literally). The woman wants to feel comfortable with the man
> as a person and as a dancer.
I think in this case, "milonguero style" is meant to define the close
embrace. IMHO, dancing "milonguero style" is much easier than open style.
There is no need to look at feet while dancing anyway and all the leading is
done with the upper body. I can always look over my partners shoulder and
around the room to check out the floor. The close embrace gives the leader
an incomparable advantage as the follower can sense every lead much more
clearly. Also, there are fewer mistakes to be made. The typical close
embrace dance has mostly "walking", "arrepentidas", and small turns or
"cambios de frente". In the open style there are more figures with
"sacadas", "barridas", "rulos", "enrrosques", etc. These figures require
more balance and technique, and generally more skill in the part of both
dancers. The only obstacle to this style is the physical closeness it
requires. This can be a difficult thing for some people to deal with.
> Also, women check out the men while they wait to dance: who
> dances milonguero style, who leads well, etc. I don't want to
> make you paranoid, but women silently observe.
Of course they do, as do the men watch the women. Everybody watches everyone
else. Naturally, we all judge the potential pleasure that a potential dance
partner can afford us during the dance. Nothing wrong with that, I dance for
the pleasure I get out of it and some partners are more enjoyable to dance
with than others.
> When there are perfect leaders, there will be perfect
> followers.
There are already plenty of perfect or "near perfect" leaders as well as
followers. I think a more meaningful statement would be something like:
"Perfect following requires perfect leading" and "perfect leading requires
perfect following".
Calidos saludos tangueros to all,
Manuel
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:17:30 -0700
From: JC Dill <tango @VO.CNCHOST.COM>
Subject: Inviting the follower into a milongero style frame
On 01:31 PM 6/17/99 -0400, Michael Ditkoff wrote:
> Lastly, dancing in milonguero style. It's the woman's
> decision. Some go directly to it while others move into the
> style during the dance. When dancing with a stranger for the
> first time, I limit my moves to walking, crossing, and ochos.
> If a woman feels comfortable with my lead, I'll add a stepover
> and give her a chance to play. If we have chemistry, I'll ask
> her to continue dancing with me. Somehow, she dances closer.
I'd love it if leaders could elaborate on this more. It seems to me that
somehow you are "inviting" the follower to take a closer position, ala
milongero style, but you aren't forcing her to dance closer (she gets to
choose). Can you try to break it down into *exactly* what you do to
indicate that you would enjoy (and be competent at) a closer position if
the follower was also interested?
One thing I *think* I have discovered is that the leader who wants the
follower to dance closer will start to assume that position himself, i.e.
more forward, more on the balls of his toes instead of having his body
centered over his whole foot or even over his heels (ballroom style). Is
this anything the leaders consciously pay attention to? At any rate, I,
personally, tend to match the frame that is offered me. So if the leader
offers an upright and open frame, I match it. If he offers a closer frame,
leaning in, I match it and we dance in the milongero style frame, opening
up as necessary when he does figures that require more space, returning to
the closer frame when it suits other figures.
jc
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:38:51 -0600
From: R Brad Stamm <rbstamm @IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Tango in St Petersburg and Helsinki
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEB909.CA402C00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We will be in St Petersburg Sat July 10, Sunday July 11 and Monday July =
12 then onto Helsinki Tues July 14. Does anyone know where we may find =
Tango dances on any of these dates? Thank you
Brad Stamm
=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEB909.CA402C00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>We will be in St Petersburg Sat July 10, Sunday July =
11 and=20
Monday July 12 then onto Helsinki Tues July 14. Does anyone know where =
we may=20
find Tango dances on any of these dates? Thank you</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Brad Stamm</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEB909.CA402C00--
End of TANGO-L Digest - 17 Jun 1999 to 18 Jun 1999
**************************************************