The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 31 Jul 1999
to 1 Aug 1999
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Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 03:00:00 -0400
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 31 Jul 1999 to 1 Aug 1999
There are 9 messages totalling 419 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. ACCOMODATIONS IN BA?
2. Re. Salida
3. Argentina Tango Review in Miami Beach
4. Nito & Elba in Detroit
5. Back step/beginner's view
6. Tango article in The New Republic magazined Aug.2,1999 issue
7. Follow up to finding the New Republic Tango article
8. Good Tango Hunting. (2)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:05:50 EDT
From: Mitchell Levitan <WEDRIVEN @AOL.COM>
Subject: ACCOMODATIONS IN BA?
Hola List:
We are looking for an apartment or other accomodations where we can cook in
BA from 12/29 to 1/12. In addition we would appreciate the name of anyone who
could help us set up an itineray for some classes while we are there.
Thank you,
Mitchell and Marta
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:58:19 -0700
From: JC Dill <tango @VO.CNCHOST.COM>
Subject: Re: Re. Salida
On 11:59 PM 7/23/99 -0700, AlbertoPaz wrote:
>There is another more compelling reason to start the salida with a side
>step, and that is the traditional way a woman waits for the man to approach
>her table before standing up.
>When she stands up, she is facing the center of the floor, so the man
>standing in front of her has complete vision of the line of dance to his
>left, thus the first step is taken to the left side of the man (right side
>of the woman) merging into the line of dance without interfering with the
>rest of the dancers around him.
This is scary. Alberto and I may be in complete agreement about something!
:-)
At any rate, I wrote the following a few weeks ago, but wanted to dwell on
it for a while before posting. Alberto's post above has given me strength
to post it now:
While watching the discussion about the Dreaded 8 Count Basic (With Back
Step) I had an idea, I'd like to see what the other people on this list think.
The purpose of the 8CB in teaching situations is to give the beginner some
"repeatable" pattern they can use to practice and to hang other patterns
off of as they learn. It doesn't really have to be "authentic", it just
has to get them dancing.
My proposal is that the 8CB be initially taught as:
1) side step to the outside (right foot for leader, left foot for follower)
2) step forward (back for follower), positioning follower to the leader's
right
3) step forward (back for follower)
4) step forward (back for follower)
(2,3,4 become a tango "walk", can be angled to reestablish Line Of Dance if
the previous move left the leader heading in a bad direction, and can of
course be extended into a longer walk)
5) leader closes feet and squares the frame (leading the cross by bringing
follower in front), follower crosses
6) leader steps forward, (follower steps back)
7) side step to the outside (right foot for leader, left foot for follower)
8) close (with weight change) for both
This accomplishes two things. 1) It gets the beginners to do more walking
(ever important in tango, and almost always overlooked by most teachers who
use the D8CBWBS). 2) It gives them 2 side steps towards the outside out of
the 8 steps in this "basic", which counters the typical beginner leader
problem of bringing the follower in too much on the cross, causing the
couple's direction (Line Of Dance) to drift to the center (every beginner
class ends up huddled in the center after a few repetitions of the standard
8CB). Also the side, close, side movement (7,8,1) is a very useful floor
navigation tool (Blocked by a couple in front of you? Do a "side, close"
again until you are clear to go forward!) and the beginning leader often
needs all the navigation help he can get.
Then, AFTER they learn the "basic" above, they can learn how to "enhance"
it, and by doing so they are taught to do a weight change on 1 and a step
to the inside on 2. They are taught how to alternate between these two
different versions of this "practice basic", and then to use the first one
whenever they find themselves heading into the center of the floor.
Only after mastering both of these variations are they taught that they may
also take a step backwards on 1 (and toward the inside of the floor on 2),
but only when floor conditions permit this move to be used with good dance
floor etiquette.
Am I overlooking any drawbacks to this idea as a teaching tool? Do you
think your local teachers who currently use the D8CBWBS could be persuaded
to try a different basic such as this one (or other variations) instead of
the basic they are using now?
jc
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:05:01 -0400
From: "Hogan, Ray (G.R.)" <rhogan1 @FORD.COM>
Subject: Argentina Tango Review in Miami Beach
Argentina Tango Review, two hours of the world's most passionate and
aggressive dancing, is coming to the Jackie Gleason Theater in Miami Beach,
Florida, on September 10, 11, and 12. Argentina Tango Review has
fascinated sold-out audiences throughout South America, Europe, and the Far
East. Audiences are electrified and captured by the atmosphere of TANGO and
the fascinating display of a variety of emotions, love, hate, ecstasy, and
great passion. Critics call Argentina Tango Review. "The best ever seen in
Tango". The Show features renowned Maestro Armando Calo and his
sensational orchestra, "De Las Estrellas" along with 2 singers and 12
dancers of Tango, Milonga, Vals Crusado, Bombo, and Malambo.
There will be four performances over the three days. Performances will be
at 8:00pm each night and on Sunday at 3:00pm. Tickets can be purchased
through Ticketmaster, www.ticketmaster.com or (305) 358-5885. Tickets can
also be purchased at Sears, Ricky's Records, Spec's Music, and select Publix
Super Markets. Prices are $40, $32, and $28.
> For a special evening join "De Las Estrellas" for a Gala Buffet (Argentine
> Style) and a Milonga at the Polish American Club on Saturday night,
> September 11. The Polish American Club is located at 1250 N.W. 22nd
> Avenue in Miami. Armando Calo will direct a special selection of his own
> music, along with some of the classics from the repertoire of his
> unforgettable brother, Miguel Calo. Don't miss this unique opportunity!
> Tickets are in limited supply. Dinner and dance is only $30. Dinner
> will be served at 11:00pm. Dancing will continue until 5:00am. Recorded
> music will be played during the orchestra breaks. Free, attended parking.
>
> For further information call any of the following numbers;
> (305) 892-6612 (305) 268-9740 (305) 595-7464 (954) 986-0261
>
>
> Ray Hogan
> RHOGAN1 rhogan1 @ford.com
> 4R14 PLHQB 313/59-44176
>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:21:03 -0400
From: "Hogan, Ray (G.R.)" <rhogan1 @FORD.COM>
Subject: Nito & Elba in Detroit
The Latin & Argentine Tango Club of Detroit will sponsor a Workshop,
Milonga, and a Parrillada Criolla with Nito and Elba on Saturday, August
28th. This event will be held at the beautiful and historic Scarab Club in
downtown Detroit. Nito & Elba will teach at 4:00pm and 8:00pm. Dinner is
at 6:00pm and the Milonga begins at 10:00pm.
Make your plans to come to Detroit. Meet with the Motor City Milongueros
in a creative, friendly atmosphere de una tarde de Tango.
Please visit our web site for more information, MotorCityMilongueros.com.
Ray Hogan
RHOGAN1 rhogan1 @ford.com
4R14 PLHQB 313/59-44176
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 06:26:20 +0900
From: Chang Sang Hyeon <schang @TUHEP.PHYS.TOHOKU.AC.JP>
Subject: Back step/beginner's view
Sorry for making another noise on this subject, I personally don't like
this kind of endless follow-ups.. but I just couldn't repress myself..
All the people who talk about this backstep seem to be experts of tango
not like me.. I just have seen a few tango teachers teaching
(mostly in videos, except a couple of cases) and I (and you all ) know
most of them (even from Bs As) teach this 8 CB with back step.
I want to clear one thing, nothing wrong or bad with "back step"
Every people does back step in every dance, I learned American ballroom
and latin dances, now I am learning international ballroom and Korean
traditional dancing.. there is NO dance which doesn't have back step.
What actually people are trying to say is, moving backward against the
line of dance. That means you should not step backward when you are
facing the line of dance. Even though you are doing 8CB, if you are not
moving backward, there is no problem. And I think that's why this 8CB
ends with half turn.
When I first learned 8CB, I thought it was strange. Why start with
backward? Why half turn at the end? For instance, American Tango has
5 step basic, no turn, no backstep. Instead it has
slow-slow-quick-quick-slow rythm to make 5 steps to 4 bits.
My first impression was it was invented to make beginners walk to the
music. 'Pause, add/drop steps'.. yes.. okay.. but if someone can do those
with the music that person is not a beginner by definition :)
Then I read Daniel Trener's article in his homepage, even though he
teaches 8CB in his video, he wrote 8CB is not proper basic step nor
orignal tango Salida. He wrote,
"I have never seen a milonguero start a dance by stepping into the space
behind himself"
"Without fail the first step an older Argentine social dancer takes is to
the side with his left and her right"
His guess about 8CB is 60's to 70's famous tango teacher
Antonio Todaro/Raul Bravo used this as a basic step to teach in the
small room.
When I saw the video of Miami tango congress, I found out most of
teachers from BsAs used 8CB with back step. Then I found a few interesting
things. If they teach higher level steps (thus advanced class) they
use less and less backsteps, but even that case they use back step
when they are in a corner or want to change direction. There was
Osvaldo Zotto, who used 8CB with backstep in his famous video which was
aired in Argentina Solo Tango. He used 8CB in beginner class, but
in advanced class, he used it only if he want change the direction.
I think it became popular for mainly two reasons, one is that for
people who are not familiar with Tango music, this would be easist
way to make them walk with music without running over people a head of
them. (Beginner is always dangerous if he sent to dance floor without
proper training, regardless of which basic or even which dance he
learned.) Another is that for the teacher, it is very convenient way to
demonstrate steps while students are surrounding him.
He can stay in the small space and can circle around without moving
out of the sight of students.
I wanted to know how milongueros dance, the only thing I could do was
to pick up "Tango Baile nuestro" and put it in the video player.
It is documentary about Tango made in Argentina mid 80's.
It shows Juan Carlos Copes teaching beginner class..
8CB? yes but he said "First step is on the same place" that means it
is 8CB but not with the back step. Men's right foot steps on the same
place where it was, then left foot to outside.
Another thing was that his lady's basic doesn't have cross.
But in the next scene, he was dancing with back step and then side...
Then it shows some big outside milonga and interviewed old milongueros.
It was interesting that those scenes show that dancers are moving
very slowly (or sometimes they don't move at all) along the line of dance.
Surely, noone step backward when they are facing forward. But I noticed
that one case, almost everyone used this salida with backstep..
If the man face the edge of the floor, he step backward (thus to the
center of floor) then to the left. It looks like that is natural
way to return to the line of dance.
Well, now my opinion.
Beginners are robots, programmed, bumper car and so on.. it doesn't
matter what kind of basic they learn. That's what beginners are and
that's why they need more practice. Surely it is dangerous to have
beginner who know only 8CB with backstep on the floor. But it is always
dangerous to have beginner on the floor.
Teach them 8CB with/without backstep, 7CB, walking basic.. whatever
make them navigate properly, before let them attend milonga.
Sang
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:46:32 +0000
From: James Murphy <cmurf @WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Tango article in The New Republic magazined Aug.2,1999 issue
> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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The New Republic, Aug.2 1999 has an article by Mindy Aloff about Tango. As
of this afternoon Aug.31,1999 it was on their web site at:
http://www.thenewrepublic.com/magazines/tnr/archive/0899/080299/aloff08029
9.html
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Tango article in The New Republic magazined Aug.2,1999 issue</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
<TT>The New Republic, Aug.2 1999 has an article by Mindy Aloff about Tango.=
As of this afternoon Aug.31,1999 it was on their web site at:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.thenewrepublic.com/magazines/tnr/archiv=
e/0899/080299/aloff08029<BR>
9.html<BR>
</U></FONT></TT>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--MS_Mac_OE_3016295192_48140_MIME_Part--
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:23:47 +0000
From: James Murphy <cmurf @WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Follow up to finding the New Republic Tango article
> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--MS_Mac_OE_3016297428_182600_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
After sending out my post about the Tango article in The New Republic I
tried the web address it was at earlier today and I could no longer get to
it.
However,Ifound that if you go to The New Republic Home page
<www.thenewrepublic.com> and then go into the archives to find the
Aug.2,1999 issue the article "On Dance:After the last Tango" by Mindy Aloff
is still available to read.
jim murphy
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Follow up to finding the New Republic Tango article</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
<TT>After sending out my post about the Tango article in The New Republic I=
tried the web address it was at earlier today and I could no longer g=
et to it.<BR>
<BR>
However,Ifound that if you go to The New Republic Home page <www.thenewr=
epublic.com> and then go into the archives to find the Aug.2,1999 issue t=
he article "On Dance:After the last Tango" by Mindy Aloff is still=
available to read.<BR>
<BR>
jim murphy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</TT>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:49:22 -0400
From: "Donald M. Kelley" <don.kelley @ATT.NET>
Subject: Good Tango Hunting.
Dear List,
Do residents of both Lansing, Michigan and Madison, Wisconsin tango? May
I find it with someone's directions?
My plans for work during the next three months will be working outdoor
construction in both locales. I need the dance. I want to keep learning and
practicing. List, please advise.
Your devotee,
Don K.
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:56:58 -0400
From: "Donald M. Kelley" <don.kelley @ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Tango Hunting.
>From: "Donald M. Kelley" <don.kelley @ATT.NET>
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Good Tango Hunting.
>Date: 1999 Jul 31 Sat 22:49
>
>
>
>
>
>Dear List,
>
> Do residents of both Lansing, Michigan and Madison, Wisconsin tango? May
>I find it with someone's directions?
>
> My plans for work during the next three months will be working outdoor
>construction in both locales. I need the dance. I want to keep learning and
>practicing. List, please advise.
>
> Your devotee,
>
> Don K.
>
>
>
End of TANGO-L Digest - 31 Jul 1999 to 1 Aug 1999
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