The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 23 Jul 1999
to 24 Jul 1999
Return-Path: owner-TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:00:07 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 23 Jul 1999 to 24 Jul 1999
There are 14 messages totalling 710 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Salida (2)
2. A Question about a dance troupe called Tango Kinesis
3. Salida. (2)
4. Tango in Edinburgh, Soctland
5. Videos suitable for beginners (2)
6. Milongas in LA at the end of the month?
7. last tango results
8. Videos
9. Salida/Improvisation
10. Videos and Back Steps (2)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:22:21 +0200
From: Garrit Fleischmann <fleischm @STUD.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE>
Subject: Re: Salida
> Juan Rando from Perth (Australia) wrote:
> I feel compelled to just remark on this simple and understated fact,
> because in our community of dancers, there has been the unfortunate
> propagation of the "Salida Atras".
[...]
> Consider also that teaching and learning
> the subtlety of leading/following a weight change is something beyond
> the beginner,...
Hi Juan,
I agree that stepping back on a milonga can (at least) be a problem,
if not hazardous. We had this discussion a couple of times on this list,
so if you want to read about it look at:
http://www.cyber-tango.com/e/art_e.html
What I do is teaching the 'basic pattern' to the beginners
without a backstep but with a weightchange - and I don't see what
is so hard to learn in a weightchange.
But there is another advantage when teaching beginners not to
start with a backstep:
The leaders learn to put the followers on the one foot in order to free the
other for stepping sideways or forward and both learn to feel on
which foot the other is standing. And this way they also learn to feel
what their partner is doing and to react to it, which is the essence
of leading and following.
Once they have learned to start with the foot they want to (and they do it fast),
it also becomes easy to teach them, that if they end a movement with a
close and have their weight on the left foot (leaders), they just have
to change weight and are now in the right position to start the salida
with a side step to the left (leaders view).
And if you don't tell them they won't know that this might be difficult ;-)
So long,
Garrit
________________________________________________________
Garrit Fleischmann
email: fleischm @uni-frankfurt.de oder tango @garrit.kpnet.de
Tango: http://www.cyber-tango.com/
Witze: http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~garrit/jokes.html
________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:14:54 +0000
From: James Murphy <cmurf @WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: A Question about a dance troupe called Tango Kinesis
Has anyone on the list seen a dance troupe called "Tango Kinesis"?
They are appearing in Northampton, MA in November and the the ad says, "This
Buenos Aires-based dance troupe directed by choreographer Ana Marie
Stekelman, has created an international sensation with choreography that
fuses the classic tango with contemporary dance."
Any info from folks who have seen the show or know anything about the group
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
jim murphy
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:24:34 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Salida.
>Juan Rando <juan @STARWON.COM.AU>
>
>I feel compelled to just remark on this simple and understated fact,
>because in our community of dancers, there has been the unfortunate
>propagation of the "Salida Atras". Many of my students gain knowledge
>in Tango not just from myself, but from other instructors in the area,
>most if not all who have never taken any significant instruction in more
>"mature" communities of dancers. I am constantly trying to persuade my
>studnets that stepping backwards on the dance floor (when in line of
>dance particularly) is, quite frankly, dangerous. Even more so when the
>dancer is not experienced, and therefore not as aware of their floor
>space.
>
>When will there be an end to the proliferation of the "8 step basic"?
>Down with the "8 step basic" I say.
>
>... Consider also that teaching and learning
>the subtlety of leading/following a weight change is something beyond
>the beginner, so teaching the Salida Atras to beginners by its very
>nature is teaching them to dance by figures/routines rather than by lead
>and follow.
The 8 Count Basic with Dreaded Back Step has long been my rant as
well. I'm not sure I am any calmer now, especially as I see our
community mature and more and more beginners learn from each other. I
have even had people complain that I didn't teach them the 8CBw/DBS.
You point out the obvious danger of beginner men who blindly thrust
their foot backward onto people behind them.
In addition it leads to a different flow of the dance: A sort of
repetitive 2 steps Forward, Side and Back, 2 F S&B, 2 F S&B... As you
say, the 8CBw/DBS becomes a routine, giving the men who use it a
robotic, repetitive dance, and you see them use the same rhythmic
pattern as well. Two years of this and you wonder if they EVER could
learn to improvise and play with the rhythm.
I don't dance with these guys, but I DO dance with women who have
become programmed to ALWAYS step back with their right foot and
ALWAYS step forward with their left foot. Some women absolutely
cannot step down together with their right foot.
I sometimes have this weird experience of the "Suspended Resolution":
I bring my left together and she holds her right in air.
I shift weight to my left and she waits.
I start to step forward and she moves her right back, or
I start to step back and she quickly steps down with her right and
forward with her left.
Argentine tango REQUIRES the follower to step when the leader steps
her, otherwise the dance doesn't function. It is Lesson 1, Day 1,
along with "Wait, Wait, Wait", "Staying in Front" and "Connect".
This is a rule from ballroom dance, so it is no surprise that North
Americans come to the dance with this. Perhaps Argentine teachers are
not aware of this cultural habit, or perhaps it is a devious plot to
fool us into NEVER learning tango. Your first step into an Argentine
milonga teaches you that your habitual little 8CBw/DBS is NOT going
fucnction here.
Garrit's solution of doing an extra step in place is only partially
helpful. It still locks beginners into a routine, and doesn't
illustrate that the next step could just as easily be forward or side
with the leader's right.
I prefer viewing tango as a walk: Right, Left, Right, Left. There is
NO step pattern in tango (ask ANY advanced dancer!), it is only
forward, backward, side, together in any direction.
Tom Stermitz
2612 Clermont St
Denver, CO 80207
Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors
"On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory."
(303) 388 - 2560
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/
http://www.tango.org/dance/
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:39:47 +0100
From: James Stewart <J.K.Stewart @ED.AC.UK>
Subject: Tango in Edinburgh, Soctland
Dear Listers all,
Should any of you be in or around Scotland this August, you should check
out the Edinburgh Festival and, more specifically, tango at the Edinburgh
=46estival!!
Destino Tango is presented by the Amsterdam Parade at Cafe Graffiti
(Mansfield Place Church, Broughton St., Edinburgh) from the 11 - 28 of
August, showing every night except Mondays. The dancers of Tango 5
(Martine Berghuijs, Bennie Bantels and Dries van der Post from Amsterdam,
and Claudia Codega and Esteban Moreno from Buenos Aires, who are
internationally acclaimed teachers and dancers) performed with great
success at the last two festivals here, partnered in previous years by the
wonderful Dutch orchestra Sexteto Canyengue and this year by the new group
Quinteto Tango.
The Edinburgh Tango Society have organised a weekend of workshops and
salons with the dancers and the orchestra on the 20 - 22nd of August 1999.
Judging by last year's events, this should be a wonderful weekend, and we
look forward to welcoming tangueras and tangueros from around the world to
enjoy the festival, the city and the tango.
The programme is as follows:
=46riday 20th:
Beginners / intermediates: 13:00 - 15:00h teachers:
15:00 - 17:00h Martine + Bennie/Dries
Intermediate / advanced: 13:00 - 15:00h teachers:
15:00 - 17:00h Claudia + Esteban
Saturday 21st:
Beginners / intermediates: 13:00 - 15:00h teachers:
15:00 - 17:00h Martine + Bennie/Dries
Intermediate / advanced: 13:00 - 15:00h teachers:
15:00 - 17:00h Claudia + Esteban
Edinburgh Tango Society Salon 'La Salida' for 'Allcomers' (=A34)
21:00 - late
Sunday 22nd:
Complete beginners: 13:00 - 15:00h teachers: Martine + Bennie/Dries
Intermediate / advanced: 13:00 - 15:00h teachers: Claudia + Esteban
Salon with live music by Tango Quinteto for 'Allcomers' (=A36)
15:00 - 18:00h
Participants can attend all the workshops or a selection. On friday &
saturday the second workshop will be a continuation of the first and
participants are encouraged to enrol on both workshops for these days.
All classes will cost =A310 per session. Numbers will be limited.
Bookings can be made through Linda Morris
email: ASET @cableinet.co.uk
tel: +44 (0)131 667 1147
=46or more information check out:
Edinburgh Tango: http://www.ed.ac.uk/~jkstew/latin/tango.html
Edinburgh International Festival: http://www.go-edinburgh.co.uk/main_set.ht=
ml
James Stewart
Edinburgh Tango Society
http://www.ed.ac.uk/~jkstew/tango.html
t: +44- (0)131 650 6392 f:+44- (0)131 650 6399
Research Centre for Social Sciences J.K.Stewart @ed.ac.uk
Edinburgh University http://www.ed.ac.uk/~jkstew
EH1 1LZ Scotland UK CU-SeeMe conferencing available
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:23:20 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Videos suitable for beginners
Michael wrote:
>I find that I am kind of stuck, just getting an idea of the basic structure
>in my head. I come from a Lindy and jazz background, where there is much
>more structure, at least early on. I feel like some accessible videos might
>help, more as review than a pure teaching tool.
>Any suggestions as to what might help? English or Spanish OK
Based on the where Michael describes himself as getting stuck, I would
recommend the video tapes by Daniel Trenner--either with Brooke
Burdett or Rebecca Shulman as his partner. Either three video series
provides a comprehensive overview of the structure underlying
Argentine tango.
A number of videos provide instruction in steps.
My reviews of the readily available instructional videos and
information about where to obtain the videos can be found at Planet
Tango. The URL is <http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/revu-1.htm>
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:15:29 -0700
From: Michael Kern <mikey @WHIDBEY.NET>
Subject: Videos suitable for beginners
Thanks to the many people who made suggestions, for videos, and regarding
the tango in general. I'll report back after I have tried some of them.
One writer mentioned that he thought that swing videos were ineffective. I
just would like to say that for me, they are very helpful. I learned to play
tennis by taping the US Open, and watching it for hours in slo-mo. I find
the same technique helps with dancing. I have noticed that some teachers
of swing or Lindy) don't do the same thing when they are demonstrating, as
when they are dancing. Of course, with dancing, as with tennis, I must find
a practice partner! And my learning technique can seem obsessive!
Bye,
Michael
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:10:05 -0700
From: Kathleen Bober <kbober @FLASH.NET>
Subject: Milongas in LA at the end of the month?
My partner and I will be in LA the last weekend of July. We would greatly
appreciate recommendations for milongas in the area.
Thanks in advance!
Kathleen Bober
Tucson, AZ
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:56:25 EDT
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: last tango results
If your interested a Saturday, July 31 the Diamondback Brewery will no longer
dance the tango.
Here are the suggestion I received from most of you Thanks
Para Lucirse
Adios Muchachos (many)
abandonado
adios Nonino
desde es alma
Yira,Yira
Melodio de Neistro adios
La ultima Organito
La ultima copa
Many picked Adios Muchacho, but as someone told me, It's an unlucky title.
This was the last tango Gardel sang in Public before his death.
I guess the title will depend on how I feel on Saturday, July 31. If it was
today I would pick "La Ultima Copa" ( the last drink)
Please don't forget the last tango will be
Friday, July 30, The New York Buenos Aires Tango connection at the Cleveland
Museum of Art, with Roxanna and Fabian from Canada dancing to their music
SOLD OUT SOLD OUT SOLD OUT
Saturday, July 31 at the Diamondback Brewery 724 Prospect Cleveland, Ohio
The New York Buenos Aires Connection's bass player
Pablo Aslan will instruct a Musicality class.
Learn all there is to know about the Tango, the music. Know the music, and
the dance will come easier.
Know on what level of dance do you dance to the music. Is it the Marcada, the
Syncopa, or the Melody.
Find out why dancing to Astor Piazzolla is so hard, is it his 3-3-2 timing?
If you dance tango, the dance will come easier and you will love all the
information and history
If your a musician and play the tango, You find this class very helpful and
you'll be surprised how much you didn't know about the tango.
If you just enjoy sitting in a chair and listening to tango, Pablo's humorous
wit and charm will captivate you
During the day Roxanna and Fabian will be teaching private tango lessons
(only 2 left) and at night will host a milonga at 7:30. Giving a 60 minute
group lesson. The end the night they will again perform the tango for
everyone. don't miss it
Please, lets make this night the biggest the DB has every seen.
Thanks everyone
Timmy
August 18 - 26 Nito and Elba
Sept 10-11-12 Daniel Lapadula (he doesn't just teach tango, he teaches
Passion)
Oct daniel Trenner
December Matej Oresic
Feb Marcos Questas & Zita Gonzalez ( Tangoing)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:10:53 -0800
From: "Percell R. St. Thomass" <dancealaska @ALASKA.COM>
Subject: Salida.
I agree with the pros and cons regarding the salida. Yet, is it "really"
so bad?
show me a dance that does not have a back step (boxes, rocks, etc).
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:14:53 -0800
From: "Percell R. St. Thomass" <dancealaska @ALASKA.COM>
Subject: Videos
Bonjour List,
Does anyone have any videos of Cecelia del Carmen Gonzalez (studio,
performance or otherwise) that they are willing to share? Merci bien.
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:12:12 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Salida/Improvisation
>>Juan Rando wrote:
>
>>I feel compelled to just remark on this simple and understated fact,
>>because in our community of dancers, there has been the unfortunate
>>propagation of the "Salida Atras" ...
>
>>When will there be an end to the proliferation of the "8 step basic"?
>>Down with the "8 step basic" I say.
Tom Stermitz responded:
>The 8 Count Basic with Dreaded Back Step has long been my rant as
>well. ...
>You point out the obvious danger of beginner men who blindly thrust
>their foot backward onto people behind them.
>In addition it leads to a different flow of the dance: A sort of
>repetitive 2 steps Forward, Side and Back, 2 F S&B, 2 F S&B... As you
>say, the 8CBw/DBS becomes a routine, giving the men who use it a
>robotic, repetitive dance, and you see them use the same rhythmic
>pattern as well. Two years of this and you wonder if they EVER could
>learn to improvise and play with the rhythm.
>Garrit's solution of doing an extra step in place is only partially
>helpful. It still locks beginners into a routine, and doesn't
>illustrate that the next step could just as easily be forward or side
>with the leader's right.
>I prefer viewing tango as a walk: Right, Left, Right, Left. There is
>NO step pattern in tango (ask ANY advanced dancer!), it is only
>forward, backward, side, together in any direction.
To me, Tom's comments about the 8CBw/DBS bring us to a discussion of
improvisation. Slavishly copying prescribed figures is not
improvisational. How bored we would be if every lead guitarist in a
rock group or musician in a jazz band played the exact same solo or
only a slight variation. Yet many leaders rely heavily on the same
element--the 8CBw/DBS or its somewhat less sinister variant the
8CBw/RS (Eight Count Basic with Rock Step). How interesting can
that be to anyone but a beginning follower?
The musicians who play jazz develop a knowledge of the underlying
elements from which music is constructed--rhythms, chords and scales.
From these elements they construct their improvisations. Before
jazz education was developed, musicians had to develop an intuitive
feel for jazz by listening to the greats. Today's jazz education
consists of learning the rhythmic elements, the various ways that
chords and scales are constructed, and how they relate to each other.
Jazz students also study how the greats have put together their own
improvisations. The idea is to so internalize the information that
the necessary notes and rhythmic elements come to the musician as
needed on the fly. You rarely hear an accomplished musician
repeatedly play "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star," or "Mary Had a
Little Lamb," which are among the first songs that children learn to
play.
Similarly, those who dance tango improvisationally must learn the
underlying elements of the dance--the possible directions and timing
of movement. For pedagogical purposes, these underlying elements
might be organized as walks, turns, sandwiches, changes of direction,
changes of axis, and embellishments. The student can develop an
intuitive feel for these elements by studying figures developed by
the greats, but in my experience, learning can be greatly accelerated
by explicitly studying and practicing the underlying structure of
tango. It also helps to study how the greats have put together their
own figures and combinations. Again, the idea is to so internalize
the information that the necessary steps come forth as needed on the
fly. You rarely see an accomplished tango dancer repeatedly dance
the 8CBw/DBS or the 8CBw/RS. But, it is quite prevalent in some
dance venues.
If the 8CB is tango's equivalent of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star,"
why is it so prevalent?
Teachers want to get their students a sense of accomplishment in
dancing tango, and the 8CBw/DBS contains all of the walking elements
of the dance--back, forward, side, and cross.
But, the 8CB is not just the first tango figure that many students
learn, much of subsequent pedagogy of tango is based on the 8CB or
some variant. Why?
The 8CB can serve as handy reference point for the beginning
improviser. If the beginning improviser thinks of the 8CB as a
hallway with 8 doors that they learn to recognize, they will rarely
get lost after attempting more complex elements. They will always be
able to get back to a point they recognize and continue dancing.
Similarly, the 8CB can serve as a handy reference point for the
instructor to show how an element that they are teaching fits into
the dance. The 8CB is commonly used by touring professors, and local
professors who do not teach it may limit the ability of their
students to learn from those professors.
Because most tango dancers are just having fun--and are unwilling to
venture very far from what they have been taught--the 8CB will remain
common as long it is so widely taught. But, those dancers who take
responsibility for their own dancing will recognize that repeated
reliance on a single element of the dance is contrary to
improvising--particularly if it is as ubiquitous as the 8CBw/DBS.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:20:45 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Videos and Back Steps
A few comments regarding beginners videos and eight-count basic.
First, IMO if you are really a beginner, videos are not only a waste of money
but a very bad idea. Mainly because you may think you are doing what you see
on the tape but how do you know if there is no one to tell you? If you don't
know anything about tango how can you make any judgments about what is
correct or not? Tango is about a way of moving and not just about intricate
step patterns. If that were not so why are there people who know many steps
but look bad doing them. The beginning classes are the most important ones
you will take because they form the foundation upon which all your subsequent
steps are built. It is very important that you have guidance and a lot of
that comes from an observer that can correct you as you do things before you
create bad habits. Not only that but being in a class where you can change
partners and experience and feel different body sizes and types is a very
important aspect of learning tango. Actually, there are many, many reasons
that a video is a bad idea but it could turn into a very long posting so you
will just have to trust me on this. Please don't try to learn beginning tango
from a video. They are of dubious value even for more advanced dancers for
many of the same reasons but at that point you are on your own. Re Daniel
Trenner and Rebecca Shulman, they have their business thing and that is fine
but they are not considered such great dancers by everybody so be careful
learning from their videos.
Re the eight-count basic and stepping backwards. The main problem with
stepping backwards is not so much that it is incorrect but that it is
something that is not always a good idea unless you have eyes in the back of
your head. Traditionally tango starts out to the side, the back step being
something of an affectation or mannerism. Again another small example of how
stage and show tango have influenced salon tango. You really don't have to
EVER step backwards and many times you shouldn't. The eight-count basic is
something is a modern development that arose out of the need to teach a
"complete" step to students. We feel better if we have an entire figure to
work on. The so-called resolution doesn't really resolve anything other than
serve a didactic purpose. It is not something to have a long debate about.
While you are still learning, do it if that's the way you learned it but be
careful about other dancers on the floor. As you improve and learn more
steps, try to avoid using it. In fact you can view it as a beginning lesson
in floor craft. Don't do it if you can avoid it, just keep your steps going
in the line of dance. The same thing applies to fancy steps if they upset the
flow of the dance. It is very annoying to be waiting on a crowded floor while
someone is showing off their latest new turn with a barrida and a parada with
a gancho and a pivot and a boleo, etc,etc,. Remember, you are on a dance
floor, not a stage.
Cheers, Charles
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:38:28 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Salida
I am posting this message for my friend Steve:
The back step is only a problem when the man is dancing in the line of
dance and steps on someone. He should have a courtesy space behind him of a
few inches at least to allow a SMALL vestigial back step of half his foot
length.
The use of the back step is most effective when rotating brings you into a
different angle to the line of dance - which ought to mean you are at a
place where no one IS moving towards you from behind. It is useful and
eloquent as long as it is not used in the beginner fashion to crash into the
couple behind the man. So it is necessary to learn this move, whether or
not you consider it part of the 8CB, but to use it for more advanced moves
and directional changes.
I consider it my responsibility to be aware of how close my partner and I
are to the couple in front of us, but I have noticed in tango that many men
have no clue it is their job to do this. They are in their own little tango
world, crashing and bumping into everyone. Studying ballroom dancing
teaches men to READ THE DANCE FLOOR by using peripheral vision to determine
where you are in relation to others. It also trains us to see the next open
spot coming up on a crowded floor where you will have enough room to execute
the appropriate move. In tango, if you want to dance mindlessly, and enjoy
the music and let the moves flow, you need to find a less popular milonga!
But when you are in a crowded milonga the rules all change. Frequently the
people I have accidents with on the dance floor are lost in a romantic haze,
dancing cheek to cheek, oblivious to others, with 80% of their vision
blocked. They crash into us and then look up from their close embrace,
startled and annoyed, clueless that it is their (his) fault.
Stephen Ense
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:49:37 +0800
From: Juan Rando <juan @STARWON.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Videos and Back Steps
I agree with your comment regarding videos. In fact, I'm probably safe in saying
that videos, a particular set of five from Osvaldo Zotto, are singularly
responsible for the promotion of some incredible undesirable Tango traits here in
Australia. As we are so isolated, and having good Tango dancers visit is a rare
treat at best, many people have purchased a copy of this particular set of
videos. I won't continue with their various inadequacies, except to point out
that the back step features strongly in the entire series.
Some interesting styles of dancing have emerged here in Perth due to the
interpretations that some instructors have made from watching videos, with no
instruction from actual dancers. For instance, a lot of ladies think that they
must follow someones fingertips whilst dancing. This is no comment of Osvaldo's
dancing, in fact I quite like his style, and certainly the various times I've
taken instruction from him, he has always emphasised leading with the body, not
the hands. This simply highlights Charles' point about how useless learning from
videos is really.
Charles Roques wrote:
> A few comments regarding beginners videos and eight-count basic.
>
> First, IMO if you are really a beginner, videos are not only a waste of money
> but a very bad idea. Mainly because you may think you are doing what you see
> on the tape but how do you know if there is no one to tell you? If you don't
> know anything about tango how can you make any judgments about what is
> correct or not? Tango is about a way of moving and not just about intricate
> step patterns. If that were not so why are there people who know many steps
> but look bad doing them. The beginning classes are the most important ones
> you will take because they form the foundation upon which all your subsequent
> steps are built. It is very important that you have guidance and a lot of
> that comes from an observer that can correct you as you do things before you
> create bad habits. Not only that but being in a class where you can change
> partners and experience and feel different body sizes and types is a very
> important aspect of learning tango. Actually, there are many, many reasons
> that a video is a bad idea but it could turn into a very long posting so you
> will just have to trust me on this. Please don't try to learn beginning tango
> from a video. They are of dubious value even for more advanced dancers for
> many of the same reasons but at that point you are on your own. Re Daniel
> Trenner and Rebecca Shulman, they have their business thing and that is fine
> but they are not considered such great dancers by everybody so be careful
> learning from their videos.
>
I have not seen any videos from Daniel and Rebecca, however, something I find
disturbing about the comment on their dancing, and which I've heard many times in
the Argentine Tango world. It's soemthing that to me really indicates how much
more things really need to move on. Someone's ability to dance is not directly
comparable with their ability to teach or coach. Does a football coach need to
be a top football player? Not really. In fact I've often been frustrated by
going to great dancers, and receiving little relevant dance tuition.
>
> Re the eight-count basic and stepping backwards. The main problem with
> stepping backwards is not so much that it is incorrect but that it is
> something that is not always a good idea unless you have eyes in the back of
> your head. Traditionally tango starts out to the side, the back step being
> something of an affectation or mannerism. Again another small example of how
> stage and show tango have influenced salon tango. You really don't have to
> EVER step backwards and many times you shouldn't. The eight-count basic is
> something is a modern development that arose out of the need to teach a
> "complete" step to students. We feel better if we have an entire figure to
> work on. The so-called resolution doesn't really resolve anything other than
> serve a didactic purpose. It is not something to have a long debate about.
> While you are still learning, do it if that's the way you learned it but be
> careful about other dancers on the floor. As you improve and learn more
> steps, try to avoid using it. In fact you can view it as a beginning lesson
> in floor craft. Don't do it if you can avoid it, just keep your steps going
> in the line of dance. The same thing applies to fancy steps if they upset the
> flow of the dance. It is very annoying to be waiting on a crowded floor while
> someone is showing off their latest new turn with a barrida and a parada with
> a gancho and a pivot and a boleo, etc,etc,. Remember, you are on a dance
> floor, not a stage.
> Cheers, Charles
End of TANGO-L Digest - 23 Jul 1999 to 24 Jul 1999
**************************************************