The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 22 Jul 1999
to 23 Jul 1999
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Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:00:02 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 22 Jul 1999 to 23 Jul 1999
There are 24 messages totalling 1315 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Fw: Martial Arts and Tango
2. Martial Arts and Tango (7)
3. Metin Yazir workshop in Los Angeles
4. Melancholic embrace or exciting gymnastics? Both?
5. A los Tangueros de la Lista!!!
6. Martial Arts & Tango
7. martial arts
8. New tango night club and restaurant
9. last tango
10. Radio Tango Software for Mac
11. Tango Activity in Nashville?
12. Salida.
13. Videos suitable for beginners
14. GROUP LESSONS
15. Ice tangoing
16. Does anyone know.......
17. Nora's 4th Friday milonga CANCELLED
18. Tango and Martial Arts
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:28:37 +0200
From: Virginia Gift <vgift @IBM.NET>
Subject: Fw: Martial Arts and Tango
Jason asked me to forward this to the List.
Voila!
Virginia
Original Message-----
From: Jason Laughlin <jaylaugh @blueshoe.com>
To: 'Virginia Gift' <vgift @ibm.net>; TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
<TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: Martial Arts and Tango
>>Virginia wrote:
>> I've recently had a conversation with people involved in the martial
>>arts who also do tango and they remarked on the similarities between
>the
>>two activities. At first blush this seemed to be nonsensical but, on
>>reflection, perhaps not. Does anyone out there have any experience or
>>opinions on this?
>
>
>Quite a few opinions, actually. Even though the two forms might differ
>in their external appearances, internally the same processes take place.
>Both martial arts and tango provide excellent training in balance,
>posture, and control and also help practitioners learn to direct their
>energy from their center. Depending on the teaching philosophy, the
>relationship of energy/chi to tango (and all movement) can become more
>or less of a focus.
>
>As a former martial artist (karate and aikido) and a current tango
>dancer I can attest that the understanding I gained in the former helped
>me immensely with my tango. Aikido especially is helpful for
>understanding what it means to move and redirect a follower's (or an
>opponent's) energy around you by inviting the movement and following it.
>On the flip side, I have a student with almost a decade of kung fu and
>tai chi who is having trouble breaking his movement habits (low
>crouches, hidden leg sweeps). His training has focused on moving
>stealthily without alerting his opponent -- the exact opposite of what
>leaders should be doing in tango. Still, when I couch the ideas in
>chi-oriented terminology, he picks up the concepts much more quickly.
>
>Now, about those gancho-roundhouse kick combinations...
>Jason
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:37:40 +0900
From: Chang Sang Hyeon <schang @TUHEP.PHYS.TOHOKU.AC.JP>
Subject: Martial Arts and Tango
I think there are some common requirements to being a good dancer and
a good martial artist. Strength, speed, balance, flexibility, discipline..
The main difference between the dance and the martial arts is the
music. With music, a martial art can be a dance. But I don't have
any idea whether Tango has any connection with any martial-art.
BTW, this reminds me one story of my own country.
Do you know TaeKwonDo, a Korean martial-art? Maybe you do.
Then, have you heard what is Taekkyon? Here is a story which doesn't have
direct relation to the dance itself, but has some interesting resemblance
in history.
Taekkyon was one of most popular martial art in Korea to early 20 century.
It is very smooth, dancing style sports usually played among young guys.
Rule is simple, you cannot hurt your opponent, so direct hit is forbidden.
One shoud use skill, jump, quickness and overwhelming opponent and make
him slip down (you can hook, draw or push) or scare him out of the ring.
There were many styles of Taekkyon and taught by many different teachers
until Japanese took over and made Korea as their colony.
Japanese government banned all Korean martial art soon and this was almost
forgotten. After Korea became country again they wanted to build new
spirit and new martial art. Ex-general Mr. Choi borrowed
forms and outfits from Japanese martial art Karate (originally invented in
Okinawa before it became a part of Japan) and made Taekwondo.
People belived (and still they do) Taekwondo is from Taekkyon. But two
are completely different, one is smooth and rythmical while the other is
powerful and more formal.
With some struggle, Taekwondo succesfully built standard rule, format,
figures, terms.. etc. and made it so-called international sports.
That means whereever you go, you learn same form of Taekwondo and
same rule is applied for the competition.
Several years ago, Taekkyon was re-discovered and become quite popular
among Korean young people.
More freedom and spirit and dazzling skills, make Taekkyon more
enjoyful than strict and formal Taekwondo.
Sang
p.s. Do you know that Bruce Lee was a good social dancer before he became
a martial-art icon? When he was in his high-teen, he won Hong Kong Junior
Cha-Cha title. One day, he visited a famous young Kung-fu master and
suggested an exchange "I heard that you are a master of your style,
I am also a master of my style, Cha-Cha. If you can teach me yours, I will
teach you mine." The Kung-fu master agreed and they started their lesson.
Later in the documentary for Bruce Lee, the Kung-fu master interviewed..
"Unfortunately, Lee learn my style too fast, he finished everything with
in a few months.. so much for my Cha-Cha lesson."
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:17:44 -0400
From: Jacques Gauthier <salsa-m @LYCOSMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Tango
> two activities. At first blush this seemed to be nonsensical but, on
> reflection, perhaps not. Does anyone out there have any experience
> or opinions on this?
Mmm.
Martial Arts: Students bow to teachers:
Tango: Students complain that teachers
are more focused on leaders.
--
Martial arts: Students break boards.
Tango: Students avoid damaging
floor.
--
Martial arts: Partner is an opponent.
Tango: Partner is, well a partner.
--
Martial arts: You learn new words
in Japanese, Korean, Chinese and
Portuguese.
Tango: You learn new words in
Spanish.
--
Martial Arts: It seems like
everyone's wearing white.
Tango: It seems like everyone's
wearing black.
--
Martial Arts: You make loud
screams as you practice your art.
Tango: While usually silent, you
scream loudly when a stiletto heel
steps on your feet, piercing the skin.
--
Martial arts: If you look at the floor
when bowing, your opponent sucker
punches you.
Tango: If leader looks at the floor,
the couple collides with other couples.
--
Martial arts: Opponents say:"What
kind of Kung Fu was that ?"
Tango: Followers say:"What kind of
lead was that ?".
--
Martial arts: White belts don't fight
black belts.
Tango: Advanced followers snub
beginning leaders.
--
Martial arts: Some Opponents learn to
throw each other on the floor sometimes
causing injury.
Lindy Hop: Some Partners throw each
other on crowded floor sometimes
causing injury.
--
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:02:54 +0200
From: Raimund Schlie <kbb @PODEWIL.DE>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Tango
Hi Virginia and all,
this is a thought I had often: I used to do Taiji for some years and enjoyed
always the sensation of feeling the power of beeing grounded when I was in
starting position. The same feeling I have (mostly) in Tango now.
The decisive difference between martial arts & Tango is the reversed approach
regarding pivot leg & free leg of the partner...
maybe one should practise Judo, then switch to Tango?
regards
Raimund
Virginia Gift wrote:
> Dear Listees,
> I've recently had a conversation with people involved in the martial
> arts who also do tango and they remarked on the similarities between the
> two activities. At first blush this seemed to be nonsensical but, on
> reflection, perhaps not. Does anyone out there have any experience or
> opinions on this?
> Best regards,
> Virginia
--
*************************************************************
Raimund Schlie Podewil - KBB
Klosterstrasse 68-70 10179 Berlin
tel (work): +49+30-247 49 750
fax (work): +49+30-247 49 700
tel (home): +49+30-85 60 34 15
email: kbb @podewil.de
*************************************************************
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:09:00 -0400
From: AisA <aisstilla @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Metin Yazir workshop in Los Angeles
I am planning to attend this tango event "His Majesty"
in Hollywood CA. It should be very interesting to see
these couples on the same stage.
Does anyone know whether ther is a milonga after the
show ? Should I bring my dance shoes ? :)
--- Maritza Bodine <TangoVenus @AOL.COM> wrote:
> Following the Hollywood Special Event, His Majesty:
> The Tango
>
> Metin Yazir will be conducting
> workshops on Sunday, July 25th.
>
> Don't miss this opportunity to experience a lesson
> with Metin who is a great
> dancer and teacher. This is his first trip to the
> West Coast. He has devoted
> fans on the East Coast, Europe and on this list
> (anyone who knows him care to
> comment on this ?)
>
> Workshop Schedule:
> 1:30 - 3:00 Lead & Follow Technique
> 3:00 - 4:30 Milonga
> 4:30 - 6:00 Boleos/Sacadas
>
> Price: $20 per workshop, $50 all three workshops
>
> Location: Moro Landis Studio (Tel. 818/753-5081)
> 10960 Ventura Blvd, Studio City 91604
>
> For Registration call:
> Maritza Bodine
> 818/784-3131
> Alberto De Llano
> 323/655-2224
> **************************
> Directions:
> From Los Angeles:
> Take the 101 Freeway North (pass Universal Studios)
> Exit Ventura Bl, turn right
> Go approximately 1/4 mile, Moro Landis Studio is
> on the left.
>
> From the 405 Freeway
> Take the 101 Freeway East - Los Angeles
> to the 101 South - Hollywood Freeway
> Take the 1st exit, Vineland, turn right
> Take it to Ventura Bl, turn left
> Moro Landis is on the right side, = block past the
> corner
>
> From the East - Glendale/Pasadena
> Take the 134 Freeway West
> Exit Lankershim Bl, turn left
> Go to Ventura Bl, turn right, Moro Landis Studio is
> approximately 1/4 mile on
> the left
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:05:27 PDT
From: Pepito La Chofa <badchioce @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Melancholic embrace or exciting gymnastics? Both?
Warning! This posting will not touch upon the following points: steps,
movement, dynamics, posture, figures, music, or the use of space.
It will deal with the food and the last names of portenos, and it will also
be a bit long and abstract, (so you may want to skip it altogether).
On the other hand, it will be directly related to tango and dancing styles,
and it could be interesting for people who are not acquainted with the
history of Buenos Aires.
Hamza Zeytinoglu wrote:
>Ah Pepito!
>
>It's too late to frown now, Fabian and Gustavo have already marked the
> >Tango history in the nineties. All around the world they have promoted
> >Tango and done that in their own way. For some like me, the
>understanding of the dynamics of each step and to be able to >communicate
>what's going on to others through a bravely systematized >approach is a
>reason to dance for.
Yes, just when you thought everything had been said about New Tango already,
here comes Pepito with one of his nasty postings.
But reactions like the above one from some members of the list have got me
thinking.
If you have been to Buenos Aires, you may have noticed that it can be
difficult to find restaurants that serve anything other than a kind of
standard menu consisting of:
pastas,
steak,
milanesas,
french fries,
pollo a la gallega,
empanadas (if you are lucky),
pizza,
ensalada rusa and ensalada mixta,
one or two other dishes that change from one restaurant to the other.
Oh yeah! -and for dessert, "flan" or fruit salad.
Until the culinary boom of the past decade it was nearly *impossible* to
find anything other than this menu in B.Aires. Only fifteen years ago,
portenos had never heard of Chinese or Mexican food, for example. They had
been eating grilled meat, pastas and pizzas for over three-quarters of a
century.
Even though they come from very specific cultural origins -pollo a la
gallega from Spain, pastas from Italy, empanadas and grilled meat are
indigenous/criollo- these dishes are served at every (not specialized)
restaurant. In fact, until recently, many portenos were not aware that these
dishes were other than Argentine.
The name "milanesa" (a thin steak done in breadcrumbs) is a good example.
Most portenos do not associate this name with Milan, the Italian city it
originally referred to. For them, milanesa is just another Castilian word
meaning what the Spanish would call an "empanada". To get a feeling of what
I mean, think of the American word "hamburger", which originally referred to
a city in Germany. Nowadays you can order a "Hawaiian hamburger" and nobody
will laugh. The same way that in Buenos Aires you can order a "milanesa
napolitana" (topped with tomato slices and melted cheese), since the word
milanesa does not refer to Milan, nor does the word "napolitana" refer to
Naples anymore.
Interestingly, something similar happens when it comes to last names. When I
was growing up in Argentina, it never occurred to me that the kids from the
neighborhood, or at school, had different cultural backgrounds. I never
thought of them as being Arab, or Jewish, or Spanish or German, nor did I
think of myself as being Italian (in fact didn't learn I had Italian
ancestors -La Cioffa- until I was over thirty). That's because, to a certain
extent, we *didn't* have different cultural backgrounds. Verbitsky,
Nardelli, Mutt, Hirtz, Peralta and Halil, we all ate the same kind of food,
we listened to the same kind of music and our parent's drank mate together
on the sidewalk.
It sounds idyllic, and to point it was. Like tango.
Discrimination in Argentina has always existed, that's a fact too; be it
social, racial, religious, political or sexual. But it has only been the
flipside of a process of integration like no other in the world. Unlike in
the United States or Australia, where historically there has always been a
dominant ethnic group (Anglo) who enjoyed the advantages of power, in
Argentina this power was less determined by ethnicity. When the Italians,
the Polish, the Lebanese, the Russians, the Spaniards, etc. came to Buenos
Aires at the turn of the century, they pretty much "took over" the city and
did not find one ethnic group ruling over the rest. There has been
discrimination, but it has been expressed -paradoxically- within a
relatively more "equal" context than what we are accustomed to in the North.
This is the reason why you can call a porteno respectively "Tano" (Italian),
"Turco", "Gallego" (Spanish), "Ruso" (Jewish) and even "Negro", with no harm
done. Because unlike in America -not to mention Europe- it hasn`t been one
single powerful ethnic group doing the name-calling.(1)
Yeah, yeah, Pepito, what's your point!?
OK, the point is integration.
The way I see it, there is a choice between wanting to integrate or wanting
to tolerate.
You can tolerate differences and let people express themselves to their own
particular liking. Or, you can integrate people and negotiate the extent to
which each person will sacrifice their individual expressive needs for the
sake of a collective way of expression.
(Please notice that I say "negotiate" and "collective" -and not "impose" and
"one particular group".)
What happened in Buenos Aires, although not perfect, is a wonderful example
of integration, where people sought to share and communicate across cultural
barriers, with such desire that they even managed to create a unique form of
music and dance.(2)
However, I think tolerance reflects, better than integration, the spirit of
our times. Many progressive people nowadays prefer to tolerate, rather than
integrate. Perhaps because over the last half a century we have increasingly
lost our innocence about the terrible hurt caused by colonialism (racist)
and imperialism (communist or capitalist) under the guise of "integration";
and the wounds are still too fresh to think about the real meaning of this
word.
That's a pity, because tango *was born* thanks to integration.
Therefore, faced with the question of how to deal with tango expressions
departing from tradition, I ask myself: What's it gonna be Pepito?
So now we have New Tango. So now you can focus on kinetics and fail to
actively cultivate the sublimated (old-timer's) mating ritual. So you can
dance open, as open as your arms can reach, and not give each other a hug at
all. You can gender-bend tango, and exchange roles even during a single
dance. You can dance to Piazzolla, or chanson-francaise, or any music you
would like. Or no music at all. You can speak of tango science. You can wear
a Zoot Suit or shorts, whatever your heart desires.
Accepting to co-exist with this New Tango would be a sign of tolerance.
Many old milongueros don't have it in them to be tolerant. So they will kick
people out of the floor, as Salas knows from experience.
I know how tolerance works, I'm skeptical about it. But then again, I live
in the 90's, as they say.
So I will tolerate. I will stop trying to convince my fellow dancers that we
should *surrender* to tango, and that the old guys and gals know better,
that we should look for a *common* language.
>From now on, I just won't mix with some dancers. I'll say "Hi" politely and
tolerate them. I'll label myself "milonguero". I'll let others alone with
their dance, even if it hurts my eyes to look at them dancing. I won't even
look at them any more. I'll try to go where *my* people are and not show up
at *their* places (like it's already happening in Buenos Aires).
'Cause we are just... different.
(not!)
Pepito La Chofa
La vida es una milonga... o un gimnasio, o un laboratorio, u otra cosa, de
acuerdo al deseo de cada individuo.
PS. I'd love to get some replies. But let me save some listeros the trouble:
don't reply saying that it is all tango and that there are no categories
-that would be a waste of time.
It would be like saying to an Eskimo "Stop calling it all those different
names, it's all just snow! Just the one thing! Why do you have to make it so
complicated?" They would probably answer what I'll answer you: "You must be
blind, I see and *feel* the differences".
(1) This applies to the context of the city of Buenos Aires. Discrimination
against indigenous peoples has, however, been blatant. And in this, all non
indigenous "joined forces". Significantly, tango does not represent the
culture of the indigenous inhabitants of Argentina, "folkore" does.
(2) In its moods and traits, tango reflects, in turn, the pain and suffering
of the integration process itself, which is not a bed of roses.
______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:57:10 EDT
From: Daniela Arcuri <DATango @AOL.COM>
Subject: A los Tangueros de la Lista!!!
Private apartament for rent in Buenos Aires!!!
Enjoy these two fabulous apartament in the heart of Buenos Aires!!!
You can experiense the city without to spend the extra money, and even better
yet, you can WALK TO THE MILONGAS!!!.
1) In the beatifull area of Palermo, Avenida Santa Fe 3900, a bright, full
furnished 2 bedroom apartament with parquet flooring, bathroom/ WC and large
kitchen, living area with fireplace.
2) An Studio apartament in the heart of dowtown Buenos Aires, two blook from
Avenida Corrientes, close to every think.
For further information please please replay to:
Ceferina Orzuza Greiner
E-mail: rgreiner @greiner.ch
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:04:43 -0400
From: Chan Park <Chan.K.Park.1 @GSFC.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Tango
Greg Olsen wrote:
>You develop strong core
>postural muscles, balance, flexibility and a keen kinesthetic sense.
>I was a compeditive fencer (foil, epee, and saber) for 13 years
>before giving it up for dancing, and all I think the training brought
>to dancing was flexibility and coordination.
>
David McRee wrote:
>He had such control
>over his body and understood movement so well that he learned to dance
>faster than anyone we had ever seen. Truly an amazing thing to witness. I
>suspect he would have been a natural at Tango. His self confidence was
>unshakeable and his dedication and persistance were enviable.=20
In my opinion, one aspect easily overlooked when it comes to discussing=
martial art is mental discipline. Mind over body so to speak. =20
I agree that martial arts help develop physical strength: flexibility,=
balance and postural muscles. But my understanding based on years of=
experience that martial arts is more than developing physical strength. (=
For example, can you dance tango more than two hours non-stop with mere=
physical strength?) I believe that martial arts help develop mental=
strength and appreciation of inner self as well. Ironically while I was=
practicing martial arts I did not recognize all the benefits in mental side=
and that's a part of reason why I left martial arts. =20
Once I started dancing tango about 2 years ago I began to appreciate what I=
had learned from martial arts: physical and mental discipline. Whenever I=
dance TANGO, physical discipline aside, I can see that I easily approach=
all the movements with mental strength and appreciate my deep inner self. =
More easily than when practicing martial arts. I guess I got hooked on=
the "Magic of TANGO."
Chan Park
Washington-Baltimore Tango
http://www.geuni.com/wbtango
PS. By many requests from our tango friends, Baltimore-Washington Tango=
changes its name to Washington-Baltimore Tango. The address of our new web=
site is http://www.geuni.com/wbtango. Please bookmark our new web site.
*******************************************
Washington-Baltimore Tango
TANGO EVENT CALENDAR
http://www.geuni.com/wbtango/calendar.html
Comprehensive and Frequently Updated Tango Event Calendar
=46eaturing all the Tango Events local to Maryland, Northern
Virginia, and Washington DC are Created and maintained by
Washington-Baltimore Tango Write to WBTango @geuni.com.
*********************************************
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:54:29 EDT
From: for Brook Tankle <LV2TNGO @AOL.COM>
Subject: Martial Arts & Tango
As a female Martial Artist for 20 yrs. I have applied many of these skills to
become a dancer. Most importantly using the principles of discipline and
dedication, to learn what some consider a difficult dance form. Also the use
of the center line (the spine, in front and back) for better balance and
repetition for perfecting the movement. There is a double exercise in Tai Chi
where the partners exchange what could be considered lead and follow, done to
develop sensitivity of the position and energy of the other. This has been
very valuable to me at a follower as I can be in a present neutral space and
wait for my partner to initiate a move and my body follows without effort. I
can be soft and let my partner truly lead without anticipation on my part.
There is a level of trust that I give to my partner to take me where he wants
me to go. It can be frustrating at times when I would LIKE to lead, but I
make the most of the opportunity to do my embellishments, with authority, and
when I use my legs, they feel it, with control, of course! Without my Martial
Arts training I would not be the Tango dancer I am today, besides the fact
that I can wear all the wonderful clothes and smell like a women...Ciao, Brook
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:47:15 -0700
From: phyllis victory <victory @MARS.ARK.COM>
Subject: martial arts
virginia,
i think that martial arts is connected to the tango too. i remember the
first time i connected with the intent and energy of a tai chi move that i
was doing and was filled with a certain kind of ecstacy. it was alchemical
and delicious. it wasn't long before i had that same feeling in every move.
well, last week i found the same experience in moving from the cross with
my dancing partner. as i was moving in front of him i experienced that same
feeling of energy and intent; it reminded me of the tai chi that i had done
years ago. i was delighted.
for me, tango has become this marvelous journey of connection with my
partner and the intent of the music and dance.
nameste,
phyllis
since everything is but an apparition;
perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do
with acceptance or rejection
one may as well burst out in laughter.
"the quiet mind"
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:49:21 -0400
From: Lorettal Burton <LnBrtn @COMPSERV.NET>
Subject: New tango night club and restaurant
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Tangueros,
Some really exciting news from Detroit, Michigan..................
We are celebrating the Grand Opening of a brand new Tango Night Club and =
Restaurant,
featuring dinner, dancing, and a free dance lesson taught by your =
hostess Lori Burton........
all for $12.00
Join us at our Grand Opening with special guests Pedro Benaventre "El =
Indio" and his partner Marianna Dragones...........Saturday, July 31st
Dinner......7:30
Dancing...9:00
Arriva Restaurant
E.12 Mile Rd.
Warren, Michigan
We will be opened from this date on every Saturday Evening!!!!!
What a great excuse to come visit our area, and take a workshop with our =
special guests.
For more information contact me at:
LnBrtn @compserv.net
http://www.argentinetangodetroit.com
=_NextPart_000_0007_01BED483.ACD07720
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Dear Tangueros,</DIV>
<DIV>Some really exciting news from Detroit, =
Michigan..................</DIV>
<DIV>We are celebrating the Grand Opening of a brand new Tango Night =
Club and=20
Restaurant,</DIV>
<DIV>featuring dinner, dancing, and a free dance lesson taught by your =
hostess=20
Lori Burton........</DIV>
<DIV>all for $12.00</DIV>
<DIV>Join us at our Grand Opening with special guests Pedro Benaventre =
"El=20
Indio" and his partner Marianna Dragones...........Saturday, July =
31st</DIV>
<DIV>Dinner......7:30</DIV>
<DIV>Dancing...9:00</DIV>
<DIV>Arriva Restaurant</DIV>
<DIV>E.12 Mile Rd.</DIV>
<DIV>Warren, Michigan</DIV>
<DIV>We will be opened from this date on every Saturday =
Evening!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV>What a great excuse to come visit our area, and take a workshop =
with our=20
special guests.</DIV>
<DIV>For more information contact me at:</DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"mailto:LnBrtn @compserv.net">LnBrtn @compserv.net</A></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.argentinetangodetroit.com">http://www.argentinetangode=
troit.com</A></DIV>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:42:55 -0400
From: Jason Laughlin <jaylaugh @BLUESHOE.COM>
Subject: Re: last tango
After the last danced tango, how about "Adios, Muchachos" by Gardel? I
don't know the lyrics in any detail, but it might work...
Jason
Tim wrote:
Can any one suggest a tango that would be
appropriate for the closing of a milonga for ever. What should that last
tango be?
Tim Pogros (TimmyTango)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:55:32 -0400
From: Jason Laughlin <jaylaugh @BLUESHOE.COM>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Tango
>Virginia wrote:
> I've recently had a conversation with people involved in the martial
>arts who also do tango and they remarked on the similarities between
the
>two activities. At first blush this seemed to be nonsensical but, on
>reflection, perhaps not. Does anyone out there have any experience or
>opinions on this?
Quite a few opinions, actually. Even though the two forms might differ
in their external appearances, internally the same processes take place.
Both martial arts and tango provide excellent training in balance,
posture, and control and also help practitioners learn to direct their
energy from their center. Depending on the teaching philosophy, the
relationship of energy/chi to tango (and all movement) can become more
or less of a focus.
As a former martial artist (karate and aikido) and a current tango
dancer I can attest that the understanding I gained in the former helped
me immensely with my tango. Aikido especially is helpful for
understanding what it means to move and redirect a follower's (or an
opponent's) energy around you by inviting the movement and following it.
On the flip side, I have a student with almost a decade of kung fu and
tai chi who is having trouble breaking his movement habits (low
crouches, hidden leg sweeps). His training has focused on moving
stealthily without alerting his opponent -- the exact opposite of what
leaders should be doing in tango. Still, when I couch the ideas in
chi-oriented terminology, he picks up the concepts much more quickly.
Now, about those gancho-roundhouse kick combinations...
Jason
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:22:58 EDT
From: Kerry Christianson <Chamaileon @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Tango
Virginia,
My background is as an actor and stage combatant as well as a long history of
social dance, heavy on the tango side.
> I've recently had a conversation with people involved in the martial
> arts who also do tango and they remarked on the similarities between the
> two activities.
I find tango and combat(various forms) to be strongly related. Both involve
2 people in a very intimate form of physical communication.
Usually one thinks of combat as a physicalization of "hate" and tango as a
physical form of "love" - but in the world of emotions, these two are
separated by a very thin line.
I perform tango and have co-created 2 pieces with my partners that literally
mix the two art forms of tango and stage combat. One piece I did recently
presented the juxtaposition of one couple in a small sword fight and another
couple dancing tango - all to tango music.
My regular partner and I have also choreographed a modern day tango-apache
that utilized unarmed combat technique woven into the dancing.
Response to our work tends to be controversial both because of the violent
aspect and also because of the non-traditional use of tango. - But for me as
an artist, 'controversial' is a high compliment to any piece of work...
:-)
- My 2 cents -
-Kerry Christianson
chamaileon @aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:56:41 -0700
From: Michael Proctor <mproctor @LELAND.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Radio Tango Software for Mac
Hi tangophones,
As some already know there is an excellent web site that
broadcast tango music over the internet. Technically it is called
"streaming audio" and in this case Radio Tango uses "mp3" as the
audio format.
For those who have Windows PC there has been available the
software WinAmp that works via Netscape to access the Radio Tango.
Just this week SoundJam MP for MacIntosh was released. There
is also a Demo version. Within 5 minutes of downloading SoundJam I
was listening to Radio Tango.
SoundJAm can be downloaded from www.soundjammp.com
Radio tango is at www.radiotango.com
Your browser should be configure by adding a helping application
found in Preferences/Application add new
Description is mpeg stream
MIME type is audio/x-xcpls
and for Mac... "File Type" should be mp3! "Macintosh File" off and
"Use thjis MIME for outgoing attachments" on.
Anyway its all written clearly in the Instructions.
Good luck and happy listening
Michael
Stanford Tango Club Web Page
http://www.stanford.edu/group/tango/
Bay Area Tango Info
http://www.stanford.edu/group/tango/#links
Surf to find comprehensive lists of Classes and Milongas ( dance
parties ) in the Bay Area
For lots of tango information and discussions
Subscribe to the world-wide tango group
email to: LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: leave blank
write in the body of text (not Subject:): subscribe tango-L
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:27:04 EDT
From: CB Rose <CCBTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango Activity in Nashville?
Does anyone know what's going on or how to find out - classes, milongas,
clubs, people to contact, etc.?
Thanks for your help in advance.
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:07:20 +0800
From: Juan Rando <juan @STARWON.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Salida.
Absolutely.
I feel compelled to just remark on this simple and understated fact,
because in our community of dancers, there has been the unfortunate
propagation of the "Salida Atras". Many of my students gain knowledge
in Tango not just from myself, but from other instructors in the area,
most if not all who have never taken any significant instruction in more
"mature" communities of dancers. I am constantly trying to persuade my
studnets that stepping backwards on the dance floor (when in line of
dance particularly) is, quite frankly, dangerous. Even more so when the
dancer is not experienced, and therefore not as aware of their floor
space.
When will there be an end to the proliferation of the "8 step basic"?
Down with the "8 step basic" I say.
Another advantage I have found with using the "Salida Comun" or Side
Salida is that when teaching tango to beginners, it is particularly
convenient to instruct ladies not to do weight changes at all (Of course
later on they advance this doesn't hold true). By using the Salida
Comun, this basic rule is maintained for the time being whilst they are
learning. Once we learn to walk around the floor, then the fancier
footwork can come in to play. Consider also that teaching and learning
the subtlety of leading/following a weight change is something beyond
the beginner, so teaching the Salida Atras to beginners by its very
nature is teaching them to dance by figures/routines rather than by lead
and follow.
Regards
Juan Rando
The Tango Salon
Perth, Western Australia
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:08:46 -0700
From: Michael Kern <mikey @WHIDBEY.NET>
Subject: Videos suitable for beginners
Hi-
I'm studying Argentine tango in a good studio in Seattle. My problem is that
the lessons are somewhat impressionistic, and I find that I am kind of
stuck, just getting an idea of the basic structure in my head. I come from a
Lindy and jazz background, where there is much more structure, at least
early on. I feel like some accessible videos might help, more as review than
a pure teaching tool.
Any suggestions as to what might help? English or Spanish OK
Thanks, Michael - BTW, I have really enjoyed reading the discussion over
the last several weeks. I like the apparent tolerance for feelings and
passion. This is certainly a passionate dance! Now if I can just learn to do
it...
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:43:31 EDT
From: Mirella Massetti <MMirella @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: GROUP LESSONS
I believe both, Melinda and David have a point. As a follower, I personally
experienced in several occasions the situation described by Melinda, but I
was also able to observe the difficulties encountered by many leaders due to
the follower's lack of proper techniques. I can also recall the breath of
relief when the "switch partner" invitation came. These situations do happen,
no matter the skill level and/or the commitment of the instructor. For this
reason, in the event of a workshop I always ask two questions: (a) is it
possible to have a women's workshop? and (b) is it possible to tape the class?
I wouldn't mind to play the "practice dummy" role in a men only class. My
partner not only is "big", he also hates to follow, so I understand the
problem and am willing to help. The question is: should the followers pay if
they are attending the class just to help the men practice their lead? And
how are the practice dummies going to be chosen? Is any volunteer good enough
or should they be at least "decent" followers? The problem is different for
the followers. We do not need a "balance pole", we have to do it on our own.
Is it reasonable to ask the event's organizers to make sure that at least
their students attending a workshop are familiar with concepts such balance,
connection, posture, and a reasonable ability to lead? This will not totally
solve the problem, but can slightly improve the situation.
After attending several workshops I came to the conclusion that they are only
relatively useful, buth this will not stop me from attenging another one the
next time the opportunity arises. Personally I enjoy them even when my
partner is not exactly a feather, I enjoy tremendously to watch how the
instructors move around the floor, the position of their feet, how they bend
their knee in a certain movement, the way they walk, etc., and I learn, I
learn a lot beyond what is shown and what is explained. Daniela, Fernanda
Ghi, Laura Brondo, Karina Piazza have all been an immense source of
inspiration and gave me a lot of material to think and to work just by
watching them.
The question is: would I know what I know had I not attended those
"relatively useful" or "not so useful for me" workshops? My answer is "no".
Mirella
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:58:58 +0200
From: Sabine Fuchs <Sabine.Fuchs @SBG.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: Ice tangoing
> While I was reading Tango-L postings, some message about 'tango music
>for rollerskating" reminded me something I forgot for a while.
>Last year, I was watching some ice-skateing match. There was a new
>couple (I think they are from US) danced with some Tango musci.
>And their choreography was apparantly influnced by AT, they did something
>looks like, ocho, giro, gancho( with skate!).. also with those gaze, and
>impressions on their face.
> Does anyone know about them?
>
>Sang
If it was last year and it had been an U.S. couple, it surely had been
Elizabeth Punsalan and Jeroed Swallow, U.S. Champions in Ice Dane
(eligible), who turned pro that season, after being, I think, fifth at
Worlds. They did an AT to music of Piazzolla (think it was Adios Nonino, but
I am not sure about this) as their free dance.
One year before this the Tango was chosen as so-called Original Dance in Ice
Dance, which means it had to be done by every eligible couple in National
and International Championships. Most of the couples at World Championchips
in Ice Dance 1997 chose AT, and there I saw the absolutely best AT on Ice I
ever have seen, by the World Champions Pasha Grichuk and Evgeny Platov from
Russia. They also chose Piazzolla music (Libertango), and had been helped
with their choreography by Guillermina and Roberto Reis from Buenos Aires. I
think this was the best and most impressive Ice Dance I have seen ever, and
they also had a very impressive Free Dance that year, to Arabian music.
Grishuk&Platov had been Olympic Champions in 1994 and 1998 - the only Dance
couple ever who got the title twice and had been World and European
Champions all the years between except one year for they had been injured.
After the 1998 Olympics they turned pro but had a personal crisis and split
half a year later. Now Platov is dancing with another partner and Grishuk is
trying a career as a singles skater.
If you ever get the chance to see a Video from the 1997 Worlds Championships
in Ice Dance, watch it. "Libertango" interpreted by G&P has everything a
Tango should have: Ganchos, Boleos, complicated quick steps, intimate pauses
- it really is great and I couldn't believe that something like that can be
done on blades.
Cheers
Sabine
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:04:24 -0400
From: SwingOutDC <zydecore @GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Tango
Virginia Gift <vgift @ibm.net> on Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:44 AM
> Dear Listees,
> I've recently had a conversation with people involved in the martial
> arts who also do tango and they remarked on the similarities between the
> two activities. At first blush this seemed to be nonsensical but, on
> reflection, perhaps not. Does anyone out there have any experience or
> opinions on this?
> Best regards,
> Virginia
Virginia,
You may find the following interesting. A caveat is that I wrote it when I
knew only a little about t'ai chi (taiji) and even less about dance.
Rayned
*---
Strictly Ballroom
An egregious fraud has been perpetuated on countless numbers of sincere
taiji players over many generations. The true meaning of taiji has been
hidden and obscured for centuries. Now it can be told. Meticulous and
careful research have finally unearthed the true, and heretofore hidden,
function of taiji -- dancing for couples[\1]. This is not just idle
supposition but a verifiable thesis that is entirely supported by the
Classics.
That taiji is a couple exercise is revealed by the fact that the original
thirteen postures were encapsulated in two two-person exercises. The
gender of these couples can be derived from Lao-tzu's admonition "To know
the yang but cleave unto the yin." Taiji stresses that the dancers
should be light on their feet, i.e., "In motion all parts of the body
must be light nimble and strung together". When dancing the footwork
should be coordinated, namely, "The feet, legs and waist must act
together simultaneously, so that while stepping forward or back the
timing and position are correct." One of the basic steps used in taiji
dancing is the two-step, namely, "If there is up, there is down; if there
is forward, then there is backward; if there is left, then there is
right." Taiji as a complete dancing art has strategies for both fast and
slow dancing, namely, "In motion it separates; in stillness they fuse."
It is important to follow your partner when dancing, the Classics advise,
"If the ... movement is quick, then quickly respond; if ... movement is
slow, then follow slowly." This ability only comes from practice, i.e.,
"From familiarity with the correct touch, ..." and "Without long practice
one cannot suddenly understand it." Following is a skill that is
important to both partners, the Classics advise that the key is "giving
up yourself to follow others."
Now on to specifics. The two fundamental postures in taiji are central
equilibrium (wardoff) and rollback. "The unified substance and
application of Thirteen Postures is built on the application of Rollback
and the substance of central equilibrium." Even a cursory examination
will reveal that rollback is the fundamental posture of couple dancing
- - the inside hand to draw close and the outside hand to gave shape to
the movement. The theory of change implies that the uses of the hands
are infinite. For example, the outside hand can be used to clear way
through the crowd (expansion) or to draw in closer (contraction). Hence
the use of the hands conform to the theory of yin and yang. Footwork is
equally stressed as can be seen from the division of the 13 Postures into
the 5 Steps and the 8 Postures.
Taiji dancing as an art and a science is governed by principles. The
first principle is to sink and relax; this principle governs individual
movement. Relaxation allows the ego to get out of way and lets you
perform in the smooth and graceful fashion that characterizes all great
dance. Sinking lets you move from the hips; if you can't move from the
hips you can forget about the samba. The second principle is to use four
ounces to lead a thousand pounds; this principle governs interaction
between parties. Four ounces is that force which is sufficient to detect
your partner's movement; it is also sufficient to suggest the direction
of your intentions without being pushy. Brutish pulling and pushing (and
pawing) are severely discouraged at all times.
The first two-person exercise, push hands (t'ui-shou), teaches the
fundamentals of the interactions between two people. First, fixed-step
interactions and later moving-step interactions. The Classics speak of
"giving up yourself to follow others"; it is vitally important in dancing
to know following and leading. If you do not know following and leading
you cannot tango. The key to "giving up and following others" is given
in the rule that there should be "no resistance, no letting go." This
is the key to good dancing where two people have to become like one.
The second two-person exercise, big rollback (ta-lu), is the training
basis for the more vigorous dances such as the jitterbug and the salsa.
Ta-lu teaches footwork, distance appreciation, and how to use momentum
and impendence. The dictate of "No resistance, no letting go" is also
critical in the practice of ta-lu. When you consider the momentum
generated in some of the more vigorous versions of the jitterbug, such
as the lindy, you can see why you should not resist your partner but
rather should use their momentum to help both of you perform. Similarly
with "no letting go" -- letting go of your partner during some of the
vigorous moves would certainly not be polite and could be health
threatening.
The assiduous practice of these exercises leads to the ability to
"attract to emptiness" and to t'i-fang (the most efficient way of lifting
your partner). It is important to remember that the hidden keyword in
t'i-fang (lift let-go) is catch. After you have thrown your partner up
it important to catch them again. The key to t'i-fang is knowing how to
"attract to emptiness". If you can attract to emptiness then you can use
four ounces to move a thousand pounds. This skill is critical in the
more vigorous dances. In order to attract to emptiness you must know
yourself and your partner. In order to know your partner you must be
able to follow; everyone (especially men) always want to lead, but
following must be learned first. (Incidentally, this is why Ginger
Rogers was a better dancer than Fred Astaire.) Li I-yu advises that if
you want to know yourself and others, you must give up yourself to follow
others. Following requires correct timing and positioning, which in turn
requires that you make your body one unit. Moving as one unit demands
first that you pay attention (mutual attraction aids attention), and
second that you have strong legs and relaxed shoulders.
Read these words carefully and discern their true meanings. The Classics
warn that, because "'Missing it by a little will lead many miles astray.'
The practitioner must carefully study."
[\1] Yes, it does take two to tango.
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:30:44 EDT
From: CB Rose <CCBTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Does anyone know.......
the whereabouts of Jesus who used to dance in "Forever Tango"?
Any leads would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:27:03 -0700
From: Michael Proctor <mproctor @LELAND.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Nora's 4th Friday milonga CANCELLED
Hello Everyone,
Well, we gave it our best shot to organize stand ins, but couldn't cover all
the details so it's official.....
Nora's milonga this Friday, July 23rd in Redwood City
has been CANCELLED.
Please, please pass this on to friends.
Thank you all for your patience.
Joan & Michael
Stanford Tango Club Web Page
http://www.stanford.edu/group/tango/
Bay Area Tango Info
http://www.stanford.edu/group/tango/#links
Surf to find comprehensive lists of Classes and Milongas ( dance
parties ) in the Bay Area
For lots of tango information and discussions
Subscribe to the world-wide tango group
email to: LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: leave blank
write in the body of text (not Subject:): subscribe tango-L
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:40:19 -0800
From: Steve Hoffman <DrSteveH @IBM.NET>
Subject: Tango and Martial Arts
NOTE: This is r=E9 capoeria mostly; persons only wanting tango discussion,
please delete this
Dear Virginia,
I would very much agree with the sentiments of Messrs. Olson, McGree, and
Garmon about the similarities between martial arts and tango. Especially
the Brazilian Capoeira. All martial arts teach the grace, the power, the
timing, the inner vision of what is going on, the intense mental effort.
Asian marital arts promote the classic warrior-caste ethos of
dispassionate, cool, "no-mind" control; as orderly and certain as the eons
of Asian culture and traditional values. (This part is different from what
tango embodies, or seeks, in my opinion, at least as far as passion, love,
dreaming...)
Brazilian capoeira is descended from the black African in the early
Brazilian period. It is the wild, acrobatic, whirling dervish,
to-the-floor, then up, flipping, diving, feinting dance, which is just like
tango. There is the interplay of feet - more egalitarian perhaps than in
tango - a give and take of thrust and parry, sweep and jump over, spin,
kick and dive, tripping, hooking - just like tango.
Like tango, it is alway done to music (unless in an actual fight): the
berimbau - wire, stick and gourd - carries the rhythm; the pandeiro and
atabaques (drumhead and congas) fill in the sound, and of course the voices
of all the capoeiristas gathered around the roda (the circle of the
dance/fight): their powerful "called" songs of the history of capoeira,
and the black, in colonial Brazil.
More than this, it is the attitude of the (male) tanguero which is so
reminiscent of the historical capoerista. This one was a mulatto or black
Brazilian, a rake, a stud, and frequently ne'er-do-well, who lived by his
wits in the fabulous and exotic Brazil of the last 200 or so years. He
still exists. The upper crust of this type might have been a
wheeler-dealer, a gambler, a hired gun, son of a plantation worker or the
sea, a lover of the bordello, Brazilian folk music, and fine cigars. He
had to fight for his life and his wallet though, where he traveled.
The underground, or desperate, or opressed one would be the rural black,
worker on an plantation, in the slave or post-slave years. Repeating the
historical pattern of the Asian peasant, resisting the overload's brutality
with the only weapons he had, his hands and feet, he developed his secret
art, capoeria, the martial art done in a circle, with singing, chanting,
clapping and percussion - which, from one moment to the next (depending on
whether the master was looking), could be the samba, an African dance, or,
a deadly martial art.
During the same era in which tango began around the Rio Plata, the swanky,
cunning white-jacket-with-black-shirt capoerista flourished in some
Brazilian cities. Same gig as Argentina: goofing around, chasing skirts,
drinking cacha=E7a, smoking weed, gambling, knife fighting, whoring around,
petty theft, sleeping late. (You all know what I mean).
So, there are LOTS of similarities between martial arts and tango !!
_________________________________________________________
Steve Hoffman
End of TANGO-L Digest - 22 Jul 1999 to 23 Jul 1999
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