The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 13 Jul 1999
to 14 Jul 1999
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Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 03:00:01 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 13 Jul 1999 to 14 Jul 1999
There are 10 messages totalling 438 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Cheers?
2. Canaro Milongas
3. Pugliese CD
4. FOOD, TANGO INSTRUCTORS AND ARGENTINEAN DECAY
5. ARGENTINEAN DECAY
6. FW: A home away from home in Buenos Aires
7. Cheers!
8. Cultural Diatribes (2)
9. (fwd) Cheers!
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:41:11 -0700
From: Planet Tango <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Re: Cheers?
>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:20:29 +0200
>From: Colin Brace <cb @LIM.NL>
>Subject: Re: Cheers?
>
>On 07/09/99 at 02:48 PM, Planet Tango <tangoman @HOOKED.NET> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to propose a truce to the "trashing and bashing" of Argentine
>> eating habits, and to the "simplification and definition" of a foreign
>> nation based on limited and sometimes prejudicial personal
>> experiences.
>
>Apparently, because you are Argentine and/or you disagree with the
>opinions expressed, the latter are "limited and prejudicial".
You are right Colin, apparently, because you choose to see it that way.
> If we were
>praising Argentine cuisine to the heavens, I have no doubt you would be
>commending us for our erudition and good taste.
No, I would still think that personal experiences don't qualify you as an
expert. Just another mouth exhaling hot air.
> For better or worse,
>Buenos Aires is the mecca for the tango world,
If you hang around long enough in San Telmo you may find somebody that will
sell you the rights to move mecca to the place of your choice.
What I don't understand is why with things being so bad and unpleasant and
unhealthy and soooo Argentine, you choose to live and work in Buenos Aires
while you pretend to originate your messages from Amsterdam.
>> Today, the nation of Argentina celebrates 183 years of
>> independence from Spain. The declaration of Independence took place in
>> 1816, six years after the 25 of May of 1810, date in which the
>> Republica Argentina was born out of a desire to break away from
>> colonialism and exploitation.
>
>Pity the place is such a mess. Menem and his pals have sold off the
>crown jewels by means of that clever parlour game, privatization, and
>are now busy turning Argentina into a servile client state of the US
>economic system.
No kidding Colin, I still miss the days when I owned Aerolineas Argentinas,
YPF, Telefonos del Estado and the Red de Subterraneos.
It just pisses me off to see what these bandits have done with my pride and joy.
Don't you hate those telephone booths on every corner? Imagine my outrage
recently when I made a long distance call from the corner of Rivadavia and
Medrano.
When the telephones were mine, we made sure that the receivers were
routinely broken, the lines ripped off, and the ones who managed to work had
the cozzy attraction of making you wait three or four hours before the
operator would come on the line to ask what number she would dial for you
(in another couple of hours, of course).
But I think that the thing I regret the most, and what I'm sure is bugging
you, is that ten years ago I was a potentate with 20 greenbucks in my
pocket. I remember how I impressed my dad by ordering a second serving of
papas fritas.
And man, riding across town and back in a gasolero for a buck. Today I have
to sit my lazy ass on those shiny, clean, on time subway trains and fork 60
cents on top of that.
Colin I was somebody, I could have been a contender.
Now, like yourself, I'm a cheap nobody that stays home and order pizzas and
lures foreigners to come dancing to my decaying San Telmo abode because I
can't afford the 5 bucks at the milonga.
>Off topic? Perhaps. No, I don't believe you need any insights into
>political economy to dance to a tango of Pugliese.
It would actually help to remember than the grand master spent most of the
heyday of his orchestra in jail because of his political affiliation to the
Communist Party. A flower resting on a silent piano.
It would shed a light of fairness to realize that in the Argentina you seem
to relish upon, a giant like Pugliese was deprived of his freedom and
blacklisted from the radios and persecuted and declared "persona non grata"
and deprived of the glory and admiration he deserved from the people, while
the leaders of those glorious days of repression and torture gave a tango
hater like Piazzolla a semigod status where they could stuck up their
insecure brown noses.
>But it would take a
>pretty myopic tango dancer not to notice that Argentina is a society in
>decay, as the Argentines themselves will tell you after a few drinks,
>and inevitably this has ramifications for the tango culture.
I am not that knowledgeable to tackle the decay subject.
But most 20/20 eyesight tangueros know that the pulse of the country has
always been better felt at some old almacen in Paseo Colon where those who
have lost their faith sit, dirty, unkept getting drunk in a dark corner
spilling the beans to clever foreigners that stay one step ahead of CNN in
keeping the world informed about the impending doom of Argentina.
You also are aware because of your strategic location that it is the curse
of the man to suffer, especially when the woman he loved with all his heart
left after another man who knew how to seduce her.
So next time you sit next to a borrachito, you may feel a deep emotion
because you might be able to sense a painful secret in his heart. This
always invariably gets him in the mood to make a cruel confession and spill
the beans.
>fewer and fewer older dancers who have to live on state
>pensions can afford an evening out (or perhaps they are just tired of
>being shoved and gancho'ed by young kids who have just attended a class
>with Naveira/Salas/et al). It acerbates the tendency of the Argentines
>to cannibalize their own culture to make a quick buck.
Don't knock the liquid tango until you try it.
Because you took the time to honor me by pissing on my Independence
celebration barbecue, I will ask the US distributor of liquid tango to send
you the enema version. Que lo disfrutes.
TangoMan
Thank you for visiting Planet Tango
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:02:23 +0200
From: Garrit Fleischmann <fleischm @STUD.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE>
Subject: Canaro Milongas
Hello List,
after a very lively discussion about argentinia food, I would
like to get some help from you for 'food for the ears' -
Tango music. ;-)
I am looking for a couple of milongas from Francisco Canaro,
but since there are lots of CDs from him, I would appretiate
any hint about CDs with lots and/or nice milongas.
Enjoy the Tango
Garrit
________________________________________________________
Garrit Fleischmann
email: fleischm @uni-frankfurt.de oder tango @garrit.kpnet.de
Tango: http://www.cyber-tango.com/
Witze: http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~garrit/jokes.html
________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:55:49 +0200
From: Garrit Fleischmann <fleischm @STUD.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE>
Subject: Pugliese CD
Hi Laurie,
There is a series called: from Argentina to the world,
and on the CD from Pugliese in this series you can find Gallo ciego,
Emancipation and many other great songs.
Enjoy the Tango,
Garrit
Quote from Laurence:
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:38:13 EDT
From: "Laurie Moseley (at home)" <LGMoseley @AOL.COM>
I'm trying to find a Pugliese CD which contains Gallo Ciego. If anyone knows
of such a CD, I'd be grateful if they'd let me know.
With thanks
Laurie (Laurence)
________________________________________________________
Garrit Fleischmann
email: fleischm @uni-frankfurt.de oder tango @garrit.kpnet.de
Tango: http://www.cyber-tango.com/
Witze: http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~garrit/jokes.html
________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:04:20 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: FOOD, TANGO INSTRUCTORS AND ARGENTINEAN DECAY
FOOD: The taste with respect to cuisine is determined by habits, culture,
own personal likes and dislikes. Some people eat
snakes,dogs,insects,etc.Others were happily cannibalistic. The important
thing to keep in mind when visiting Buenos Aires is that many of the
thousands of bars and restaurants that line the streets specialize in
MINUTAS, food that can be prepared in a few minutes ( the equivalent of MC
Donalds, Argentinean style); for better and more varied food one has to be
more selective and be willing to pay more, 15 to 50 Vs. 6 to 12 dollars.
TANGO TEACHERS: like in any human endeavor there are all sortS of
personalities. My experience and that of my many friends that have been
going to Buenos Aires on a yearly basis is that most instructors are
excellent as a person, as a teacher and on many occasions as a friend.
Traveling abroad to teach is becoming more and more a burden for many of
them; some are tired and wish they could stay in Buenos Aires.
THE OTHERS, very few, are modern versions of the COMPADRITO of the beginning
of the century. Grew up, street-wise, billiards parlors, horse races, women,
AND LOTS OF TANGO. I find that despite their personalities I can learn a lot
of them when it comes to Tango.
I WILL LEAVE THE ARGENTINEAN DECAY AND AMERICAN NEO-COLONIALISM FOR ANOTHER
OCCASION.
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:30:00 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: ARGENTINEAN DECAY
Global economy, privatization, MERCOSUR, big economical changes.
MERCOSUR, the third largest area of free trade, after NAFTA & THE EUROPEAN
COMMON MARKET, comprises Argentina,Brasil(the 10th largest economy in the
world),Uruguay and Paraguay.
POSITIVE CHANGES: large capital investments, development, growth of the
National Product, better services.
NEGATIVE CHANGES: Increase of unemployment, increase in the distance between
the very rich and the very poor, wild fluctuations of the economy.
There is wild competition between the USA and the EC to integrate MERCOSUR
TO THEIR RESPECTIVE COMMON MARKETS. The present government of Argentina
seems to favor integration with the USA. When looking for a common currency
Europe created the EURO; for MERCOSUR there is no need to create a currency
since the American Dollar is a powerful trade instrument that is already in
place. If this was accomplished, Argentina would depend as much on Wall
Street as Holand and the other European nations depend on the German
Central Bank when giving up their national currencies in exchange for the
EURO.
The nations that followed this economical path, association with the good
USA and LIBERAL ECONOMY, seem to prosper enormously. EXAMPLES: Chile, South
Korea, Taiwan, etc.
By the way I like Congrio too.
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:47:58 +0200
From: Helaine Treitman <treitman @GIOTTO.ORG>
Subject: FW: A home away from home in Buenos Aires
Hola everyone,
Six months ago I posted the following message to the List about my stay
with a porte~na friend in Buenos Aires, and recently a few people have
asked me for this information again. So I thought I'd post it with Maria
Teresa's latest email address.
Here it is:
For those of you who have to resolved to visit Buenos Aires in 1999 and
wonder
how you can set yourself up to get the most out of your visit, I'd like to
recommend that you consider staying with my good friend, Maria Teresa
Lopez. I
thank Lidia Ferrari for referring my friends and me to her. I paid a very
modest weekly fee for my room in a homey, spacious 4-bedroom/3 bathroom
apartment in a pleasant neighborhood in the center of the city, just a few
steps from a supermarket, a bakery and drugstore and other conveniences.
Taxis
pass literally every minute, and bus and subway stops are a few blocks
away.
Four tangueras (we were from Italy, Florida, Marseilles and Paris) and one
Argentino studying ballet shared the kitchen, laundry facilities, and even
a
nice wood floor to practice on, with our host, Maria Teresa. We had an
excellent experience there, and so did the tangueros from Germany and
Holland
who came after we left. Maria Teresa is a psychologist and tanguera who
goes to
milongas most evenings; she gave us the insiders' view of the porten~o
Tango
world. Most importantly, she is a warm, wonderful person, wise and fun,
and
perhaps the biggest bonus of my trip to BA is her longterm friendship.
Maria
Teresa directed us to the best milongas to go to for each afternoon and
evening. She taught us the "codigo" - the code for inviting and accepting
or
declining an invitation, so that within just a few days we were dancing
only
with partners of our choice. She helped us find the instruction we were
looking for, and sometimes suggested very good milongueros who are not
international stars and who therefore charged very reasonably for lessons.
Often she accompanied us to milongas and introduced us to her friends, who
were
some of the best dancers in the room. Since she is well respected in the
tango
community, just being seen at her table opened doors for us.
I have no financial interest in referring you to Maria Teresa. I would
just
like to see that others have as rich an experience in Buenos Aires as I
did.
Since my return in November, I have heard from a few Italians, Germans and
Americans about how their Buenos Aires Tango experiences were disappointing
in
various ways, and I know that I avoided those disappointments and had a
great
time thanks to Maria Teresa.
Please contact Maria Teresa directly (telephone and fax ++54l-902-5059)
or care of Janis Kenyon, jantango @feedback.net.ar. Maria Teresa speaks
English and French, in addition to Castillano. Try to contact her well in
advance of your trip, to make sure she has a room for you. Couples
especially should try to reserve early.
Warmest regards to you all,
Helaine
--The International School of Art in Umbria, Italy
06057 Montecastello di Vibio PG Italy
Tel / Fax +39-075-8780223 in US Tel. 212-386-2705
>From December 10 - April 10 in US:
Tel. 941-594-9449 Fax 941-514-4046
http://www.giotto.org/ email: treitman @giotto.org
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:14:07 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Cheers!
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Gosh Alberto - don't hold back. Tell us what you really think! :-)
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Gosh Alberto - don't hold back. Tell us what =
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 02:18:30 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Cultural Diatribes
Hey, Let's cut the crap with all the disparaging remarks about our cultural
differences. I subscribe to discuss tango and directly related issues. There
are enough long-winded discussions already without getting into this other
murky stuff. No wonder people are choosing to unsubscribe. This is really
unsavory and very petty. I am a non-smoking vegetarian but I really don't
give a damn about how much red meat the Argentines consume or how lousy the
cuisine might be. I love the tango and accept the contradictions of their
culture just as I accept the contradictions of my own or any other. Please,
can we keep the focus of this discussion on the dance.
Thanks, Charles Roques
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 02:35:50 EDT
From: Frank Sasson <FRSASSON @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cultural Diatribes
In a message dated 7/13/99 11:20:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Crrtango @aol.com writes:
<< Please,
can we keep the focus of this discussion on the dance. >>
Or the music, or anything to do with this terrific addiction.
Frank Sasson
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:54:45 GMT
From: Ed Loomis <edl @WCO.COM>
Subject: (fwd) Cheers!
On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:14:07 -0400, Melinda Bates
<tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
>Gosh Alberto - don't hold back. Tell us what you really think! :-)
Be careful what you go askin' for, you might get it!...
Ed Loomis
--=20
"People are like tea bags -- you have to put them in=20
hot water before you know how strong they are."
End of TANGO-L Digest - 13 Jul 1999 to 14 Jul 1999
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