The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 11 Jul 1999
to 12 Jul 1999
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:00:03 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 11 Jul 1999 to 12 Jul 1999
There are 5 messages totalling 185 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tango Money and Power Trips
2. EARLY FORMS OF TANGO
3. Carlos Sauro's movie "Tango" to be released on Video on August 3 ? And
thanks for the Tango Kinesis info
4. Tango Romeos and Hustlers
5. Looking for Good Milonga Videos
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:41:36 -0800
From: Steve Hoffman <DrSteveH @IBM.NET>
Subject: Tango Money and Power Trips
Jean-Pierre,
I agree with you totally about the financial aspects and behind-the-scenes
comments from some of the visiting masters from Argentina. I also have
heard the "maestros" laughing about how easy it is to take money from the
Americanos. "Like taking candy from a baby", would be a form of
translation. Some of the teachers don't realize that white Americans
(particularly in "multi-cultural" parts of the country) are fluent in other
languages, and they can understand the disparaging comments that are made
about the students.
Fabian Salas once gave a workshop in San Francisco in which he made the
most incredible, public statements (in English !!), multiple times (!!),
about what total suckers the students were; and how they should pay and
pay again. He would even stop in the middle of showing a new figure (like,
he would stop on his axis, with one foot off the floor, ready to continue),
but would say: "OK, you pay me more, right now, or I won't show you the
next step." And he would laugh at the top of his voice, cackling with
laughter, throwing his head back... all by himself. The students ($40 for
1.5 hours) were sort of stunned, and there was absolute silence from them.
He would then continue, and make new jokes about how many of the women from
his workshops were going to sleep with him. He make jokes about genitals
and other sexual innuendo, and then, amazingly, repeated the same joke
about threatening to stop the workshop in the middle of a new figure,
unless he was paid again. And he laughed and laughed, ... all by himself.
Imagine what he says in Castellano, to his friends.
Now, I don't think there is anything wrong with them offering a highly
sought-after talent like teaching tango, to a group of (relatively
extremely wealthy) gringos in their home countries, or any other location,
and charging as high as the consumers will pay. This is business, and
teaching tango is a business. The visiting teachers are riding a fantastic
tidal wave of money, from people who can pay.
What is annoying to many however, is the remarkable insolence and disdain
that is shown to the students, by some teachers (Others, of course, are
very pleasant and kind sorts of people.) When you read on the Tango-L
about some people's dislike for the arrogance and avaricousnes of some
teachers, their sexual power trips, and the way many gringos gush about
dancing with these men, and the degree of adulation and *respect* that they
are shown ... well, other people have heard or seen a different side of
these teachers, and, like Jean-Pierre, have a somewhat different view of
their character and motives (like my women friend who reported that she had
to physically fight off a certain teacher we have been talking about
recently, during a private lesson, to indicate she wasn't there for sex).
Nevertheless, a legitimate way to see this whole dynamic is to simply see
it as paying for learning. It's like the commentary about one's
psychiatrist: People complain about not liking their psychiatrists. Well,
you don't have to *like* your psychiatrist; you just have to benefit from
their advice or analysis.
So it is with tango: If you've got the 40 bucks, they've got the workshop.
You make an economic decision in your best interest. That's the way they
see it too.
_________________________________________________________
Steve Hoffman
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:24:43 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: EARLY FORMS OF TANGO
HOW DID THE ARGENTINE TANGO ORIGINATE?
WHEN AND WHERE THE TANGO DANCE STARTED?
There are numerous investigations which have generated discordant theses.
According to Ventura Lynch's publication of 1883; the tango choreography
originated in the mockery that the compadrito made of the black's dance
called CANDOMBE; a grotesque imitation of their steps created a new
improvised choreography done to a whistled milonga.
The compadrito attends the CANDOMBE dance, but he cannot integrate himself
to it. It is something racial, ceremonial, religious.An exclusive patrimony
that belongs to the black. The white has no right to profane... all this
seems exotic,foreign; but full of a wild tropical taste... because the
compadrito cannot penetrate this fence( he would not have liked to do it
anyways)he mocks
the steps dancing with other male friends.
...but when all this happened? It has been speculated that it was around
1870 in the outskirts of the city of Buenos Aires (today Liniers)a place of
mataderos ( butcheries ). At this place arrived many gauchos bringing cattle
to the market; after work there was singing, guitar playing and some dancing
in the pulperias (bars)aroud the area.
...........will be continued. SERGIO
SERGIO
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:15:13 +0000
From: James Murphy <cmurf @WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Carlos Sauro's movie "Tango" to be released on Video on August 3 ? And
thanks for the Tango Kinesis info
Thanks to all for the responses to my inquiry regarding the group Tango
Kinesis. The folks on this list are great!
Several responses mentioned that Ana Marie Stekelman the director of the
group Tango Kinesis was involved in the choreography for the Carlos Saura
movie "Tango."
By coincidence I read in Michael Blowen's Video Watch column in today's
Boston Sunday Globe (July 11,1999) that the movie "Tango" is scheduled to
released on video on August 3, 1999.
jim murphy
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:26:13 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango Romeos and Hustlers
It is not always possible to know in advance about the personal behavior of
these visiting tangueros. We all can be fooled once perhaps but if you allow
it to happen again it is your own fault for inviting them to return. No
wonder they ridicule us. I realize not everyone has the advantage of living
in a major city with an active tango scene like we have here in New York with
a sizable population of Argentines who are knowledgeable about the better
dancers and teachers who visit from Buenos Aires but one way to remedy this
is to name names. If you have had a bad experience let other people know and
for gods sake stop worshiping these characters as if they were tango
messiahs. There are many people who don't even consider them to be that good.
Fabian is not the only one to have a reputation. One should not start false
rumors but if you actually know it to be true, say it! Puppy Castello often
comes to New York to teach and he has a bad reputation for this same thing,
as well as being unreliable. I know this first-hand because I have translated
for his workshops. There are a number of women who will no longer take
classes with him or dance with him because they feel uncomfortable with his
advances. He is the same way in the milongas, especially after a few drinks.
This is not a comment on his dancing or his teaching, just on his personal
behavior. I have heard stories about certain other famous tangueros but since
I don't have first hand knowledge I won't start adding to the rumor mill. I
think all of us are sensitive to the physical intimacy of this dance but
there is also such a thing as professionalism. Yes we do have money to spend
on this dance but these people are not the only good tango teachers. They may
come here and make money from us once but we only have ourselves to blame for
allowing them to return and make some more.
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:07:45 -0700
From: Hal Waite <halwaite @LVCM.COM>
Subject: Looking for Good Milonga Videos
I recently visited the Los Angeles area (from the Tango desert of Las
Vegas) and was much impressed by the milonga as exhibited at the
Saturday night dance at the Arthur Murray studios in Sherman Oaks.
As a beginner with less than a year of lessons, my dancing has been
limited to the slower style of Paiva, etc. The milonga as shown in the
recent Miami Workshop tape and the milonga video by Daniel Trenner do
not capture the excellence and rhythm of the rapid dancing and step
variation exhibited in LA.
Is there a commercially available video tape that would be of assistance
in learning this alternate style? Thanks in advance.
Hal Las Vegas
BTW: Perhaps there are teachers or amateurs that visit Las Vegas that
would be interested in giving a workshop for our tango group.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 11 Jul 1999 to 12 Jul 1999
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