The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 9 Jul 1999
to 10 Jul 1999
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Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 03:00:03 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 9 Jul 1999 to 10 Jul 1999
There are 8 messages totalling 553 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Food for thought
2. Bs.As. food (2)
3. Pepito's food commentary
4. Where is the "truth" in Truth Detector?
5. Cheers to the great people of Argentina
6. Atlanta Nora Dinzelbacher Workshop
7. News from BAirse
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 02:01:53 -0700
From: Planet Tango <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Food for thought
>In fact, IMHO, compared to about 40 othere countries,
>Argentina has the worse, the most unhealthy, the most bland and repetitous
>food I have ever imagined (and I thought Brazil was bad).
>
>There are essentially no vegetables or fruits in
>the Argentinian diet, as far as I can see.
>I don't think you could sell in the
>USA what passes for meat dishes in the usual Argentine restaurant...these
>pieces of meat were so
>stringy, so fatty, so laden with huge marbled lumps of pure fat, that they
>were disgusting.
>_________________________________________________________
>Steve Hoffman
Lemme see,
For starters, salame, zapallo and melon come to mind.
I think that it is possible that Rod Serling was the pilot and just about
the moment when the jet crossed the Equator it entered the Twilight Zone. I
bet there were also a lot of cookies and empty milk cartons. :-)
>... you will still be extremely happy to see,
>touch, smell, - and eat - some real vegetables).
I think we all have done this at one point in our lives. Some tell me they
have also danced with some of them. ;-))
>I have never seen a more unhealthy diet in all my travels. My medical
>colleagues in Argentina say that is price is paid every day in their
>practices: very high rates of coronary heart disease, colon cancer, and
>the like.
They overlooked the obvious, the country produces a hell of lot of great
tango dancers.
The fat, you see, contributes to make them dance smoothly on the floor
instead of tiptoeing like Tinkerbell or chasing cockroaches to a milonga
beat. :-)))
Panza llena, corazon contento. Quien nos quita lo bailado! ;-)
Alberto
a.k.a. TangoMan
Thank you for visiting Planet Tango
for up to the minute information at,
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:42:45 -0800
From: Steve Hoffman <DrSteveH @IBM.NET>
Subject: Bs.As. food
Whether for better or worse, my commentary about food in Bs.As. stired up
some reactions.
To Pepito and other Argentinians, sorry for the cut to your country. As I
said, every country, including the USA, has good and bad features (yes, I
believe a person is entitled to make these judgments.) I accept as true
and legitimate many complaints about the United States, originating in
other nations.
Regarding statistics about disease and death indices, one has to be very
careful. For example, to present statistics that (say), the US and
Argentina have similar death rate percentage for coronary heart disease can
leave a false impression if not supplemented with other, over-riding
factors, like... life expectancy. What percentage, AT WHAT AGE, are
getting "X' disease? I was only talking about restaurant food in any
case, not the national, rural, indigenous statistics.
Several correspondents wrote privately with great agreement, others no.
The solutions given by various people were excellent: advice from friends,
careful choosing and ordering, getting an room with a kitchenette or share
a room in a home. As someone said, the Tenedor Libre restaurants (not a
chain but similar format; all you can eat; great variety inc. vegetables;
always run by Asians) are a great option.
Anyway, I did get off the subject as someone said. Sorry. Will not happen
again (I hope).
'Nuff said.
_________________________________________________________
Steve Hoffman
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:09:39 -0400
From: Jacques Gauthier <salsa-m @LYCOSMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pepito's food commentary
>Every country has its strong points and its
>weak points, it should be said. Buenos Aires is
>my favorite city, and has some wonderful
>aspects, but food is not one of them.
Hi,
Unfortunately, I've never had the pleasure of
visiting Buenos Aires. As someone who often
travels outside of his country though, I know
that the food you are used to is the thing that
people usually miss the most when travelling.
It's not really a question of the food of the
country being visited is bad but rather a
question of eating habbits. (For example, milk
dosen't taste same, you're not used to cold cuts
for breakfast etc...)
>As Pepito said, the lack of variation, the
>virtually identical fare at most restaurants, is
>amazing. There are essentially no vegetables or
>fruits in the Argentinian diet, as far as I can
>see.
A casual visitor to the U.S might come to a
similar conclusion after eating at most greasy
spoon restaurants.
>The concept of "salad dressing" is one that has
>not arrived in Latin America. During three
>trips to Argentina (3 months travel), I only
>found one restaurant that had any type of
>dressing other than oil and vinegar and salt
My favorite kind of dressing is made by
squeezing half a lemon over the salad, sprinkle
red wine vinegar and olive oil. I tend to
dislike the commercial dressings. (My favorite
salads are greek salads).
>the opposite. I don't think you could sell in
>the USA what passes for meat dishes in the usual
>Argentine restaurant. Don't get me wrong, I
>love a good steak, but these pieces of meat were
>so stringy, so fatty, so laden with huge marbled
>lumps of pure fat, that they were disgusting.
I recently came back from a swing camp where I
encountered similar views about Canadian beef.
This young lady expressed that U.S beef must be
so much better than the Canadian variety. She
was most surprised to find out that Canadian
beef isn't fed hormones like the U.S variety.
Several countries such as Canada and France
actually block the entry of U.S beef because of
this. I personally prefer a steak with natural
fat over one with unaturally added hormones.
(Fat can be trimmed off after all).
>On top of this, the amount of sugar and candy
>and sweetened breads and custard (and the like)
>served and eaten every day by Argentines, is
>mind-boggling.
As opposed to the pancakes that one can have for
breakfast in the U.S topped with a ball of
butter ? (Using those spoons usually used for
Ice cream). As I see it, both cuisines have fat
and sweet things that are bad for you. How about
that deep-fried ice cream that I heard about ?
>I have never seen a more unhealthy diet in all
>my travels. My medical colleagues in Argentina
>say that is price is paid every day in their
>practices: very high rates of coronary heart
>disease, colon cancer, and the like.
This sounds like a typical North American health
problem. Coronary heart disease is one of the
leading causes of death in the U.S as well. 38
% of the adult population is obese. People all
over the planet are eating more sugar than their
metabolism was designed to handle through
evolution.
>worse. Take your vitamins, and have someone from home
>send you vegetable care packages via Federal
>Express (even with 2-3 days in transit, you will
>still be extremely happy to see, touch, smell, -
>and eat - some real vegetables).
Odds are that the "real" vegetables you
buy at home are genetically modified.
There are an alarming number of genetically
modified vegetables now appearing on the
market. The FDA is rushing to approve food
which hasn't been sufficently tested.
Jacques G.
Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:01:35 +0000
From: Carol Shepherd <shepherd @ARBORLAW.COM>
Subject: Re: Where is the "truth" in Truth Detector?
Dear Group-of-Fellow-Spammed-Individuals, and Tango-L listmembers:
Oh please. What this Yahoo called 'Truth Detector' most wants, is your
attention.
That is the point of so-called 'trolling' on mailing lists. Trolling is
an anti-social, schoolyard behavior practiced by closeted geeks who so
completely lack social skills that they need to be provoking conflict by
e-mail with complete strangers, to feel as if they have some kind of
social engagement. Trolls like the feeling of power that comes from 500
people reading their little naughties, like a raincoat flasher at a
baseball park. People who have better things to do, like work for a
living, spend time with their families, and dance tango.
The Yahoo's posts really have nothing to do with tango, they are about
someone's obsessive need for attention. The most effective thing you
can do to discourage a troll, is to completely and totally ignore them,
because the attention and conflict are all they seek. Whenever I smell
a troll, I set up a 'bozo filter' in my mail program that simply sends
all posts coming from a certain e-mail address straight into the trash,
before I ever see them. I did not, in fact, even see the posts
complained of because of mail filters that I use.
Those who are concerned about their image in the tango community should
take heart. I, and other people with any Internet experience, totally
ignore anonymous posts as a rule. It's AOL chat room behavior worthy of
a 10-year-old, how can it be serious? Anything of value that anyone has
to say, they are willing to say with their name on it, particularly if
it is with respect to a real person's reputation. So it's simply not
possible for anyone's image or reputation to be tarnished, slandered, or
otherwise affected by some cowardly crank lobbing puerile comments like
water balloons, from behind a Yahoo address.
Have a great day,
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw Associates PLLC
Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
+1 734 668 4646 tel +1 734 663 9361 fax
business, technology, entertainment and new media law
year2000 @arborlaw.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:58:36 -0400
From: Joseph Arbena <jose @CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bs.As. food
I was pleased to see when I finally logged on today that several people had
responded to Steve Hoffman's sweeping denunciation of food in Buenos Aires
specifically and Argentina generally. Personally, I had thought several
times last evening and this morning how I might reply.
I have been visiting Argentina--mainly Buenos Aires--for over 20 years,
most recently the first two weeks of May 1999. There, like elsewhere, I
have had meals that I didn't particularly enjoy. But on average I have
eaten very well. Perhaps salads and vegetables are not as easy to order in
some restaurants as we would prefer, but such is the case in many US
eateries as well. And I won't even comment on the question of fatty,
bland, and unhealthy food, given the character of mass produced food in the
USA. (May I suggest that interested persons get a copy of 'The Crystal
Frontier', by renowned Mexican author Carlos Fuentes, and read Chapter 3,
if not the entire novel, for a knowledgeable foreigner's comments on gringo
food.) =20
But wherever did Steve eat Argentine beef? 50% fat to be thrown away?
Please! So try the veal cutlet, or the numerous varieties of seafood, and
the pasta.
Perhaps what upset me most about Steve's comments was not that his
perceptions and mine don't coincide--though I think in some cases his facts
are wrong--but rather his tone, which I found arrogant, condescending,
abrasive, offensive. I really trust that such a mode of expression doesn't
carry over to the way he deals with porte=F1os in person or to the way he
moves on the dance floor in his allegedly favorite city. I suggest, as
someone else proposed, that we deal with this over several bottles of vino
mendicino and each with the plate of their choice.
Chau, Joe Arbena=20
At 01:42 AM 7/9/99 -0800, Steve Hoffman wrote:
>Whether for better or worse, my commentary about food in Bs.As. stired up
>some reactions.
>
>To Pepito and other Argentinians, sorry for the cut to your country. As I
>said, every country, including the USA, has good and bad features (yes, I
>believe a person is entitled to make these judgments.) I accept as true
>and legitimate many complaints about the United States, originating in
>other nations.
>
>Regarding statistics about disease and death indices, one has to be very
>careful. For example, to present statistics that (say), the US and
>Argentina have similar death rate percentage for coronary heart disease can
>leave a false impression if not supplemented with other, over-riding
>factors, like... life expectancy. What percentage, AT WHAT AGE, are
>getting "X' disease? I was only talking about restaurant food in any
>case, not the national, rural, indigenous statistics.
>
>Several correspondents wrote privately with great agreement, others no.
>The solutions given by various people were excellent: advice from friends,
>careful choosing and ordering, getting an room with a kitchenette or share
>a room in a home. As someone said, the Tenedor Libre restaurants (not a
>chain but similar format; all you can eat; great variety inc. vegetables;
>always run by Asians) are a great option.
>
>Anyway, I did get off the subject as someone said. Sorry. Will not happen
>again (I hope).
>
>'Nuff said.
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Steve Hoffman
>
>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:48:46 -0700
From: Planet Tango <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Cheers to the great people of Argentina
Dear Tango friends,
I'd like to propose a truce to the "trashing and bashing" of Argentine
eating habits, and to the "simplification and definition" of a foreign
nation based on limited and sometimes prejudicial personal experiences.
Today, the nation of Argentina celebrates 183 years of independence from
Spain. The declaration of Independence took place in 1816, six years after
the 25 of May of 1810, date in which the Republica Argentina was born out of
a desire to break away from colonialism and exploitation.
Al gran pueblo argentino salud!
Alberto Paz
Thank you for visiting Planet Tango
for up to the minute information at,
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:32:20 -0400
From: danny waggoner <dwag @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Atlanta Nora Dinzelbacher Workshop
At the request of the organizer, I'm posting the weekend schedule for Nora's
workshop in Atlanta - please note the correct date (and thanks to Ronda for
catching the date error in my earlier post, I was using 3rd hand (read bad)
info, and besides, I'm old & tired!)
Anyway, come dance in Atlanta - Danny
usual financial disclaimer - no personal financial interest etc
Nora Dinzelbacher Workshop
We are pleased to welcome Nora back to Atlanta! Nora is originally from
Argentina. She currently teaches tango in the San Francisco Bay Area as well
as giving workshops around the United States and Europe. She is the only
instructor to serve every year on the faculty of Stanford University Tango
Week since its inception in 1990. She organizes, directs and hosts the
Argentine Tango Week in Emeryville, CA.
WORKSHOP DETAILS:
Session 1: Saturday, July 24, 10:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. ($25.00 per person,
$45.00 per couple), Several Dancers Core Studio
Session 2: Saturday, July 24, 1:30 p.m. - 3:30 p.m. ($25.00 per person,
$45.00 per couple), Several Dancers Core Studio
Session 3: Sunday, July 25, 12:30 p.m. - 2:30 p.m. ($25.00 per person,
$55.00 per couple), Several Dancers Core Studio
Session 4: Sunday, July 25, 7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. WOMEN'S WORKSHOP featuring
embellishments ($20.00 per person), followed by a Guided Practica open to
men and women, 9:00 - 11:00 ($5.00 per person), Charmaine's house
Several Dancers Core Studio is located at 519 N. McDonough street in
downtown Decatur.
Charmaine's house is located at 435 Ivy Park Lane in Buckhead.
A Saturday night milonga will be held at Charmaine's house
For more information and to schedule private lessons with Nora, call Barbara
Durr at 404.223.5456 or email Barbtang @aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 00:15:43 -0300
From: Tijman Liliana <lady @FIBERTEL.COM.AR>
Subject: News from BAirse
Hola amigos de la lista.
Como es costumbre y despues de acumular una cierta cantidad de material,
aparecidos en los diferentes diarios de Buenos Aires, se los hago
llegar. En esta ocasion, y conmemorando la semana Gardeliana, y con su
autorizacion, he colocado algunos links del diario "El Pais", de
Montevideo R. O. del Uruguay, siendo los mismos, una gentileza del amigo
Victor Scarabino, Uruguayo que se precie "anclado en Paris" ...
Espero sean de vuestro interes, y muchas gracias por los mirrors.
Zitarrosa, parte III.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/06/S15.HTM
_______________________________________________
RUBEN RADA
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/revista/9923/P03.HTM
__________________________________________________
Celebracion del tango.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/08/S11.HTM
___________________________________________________
Con la voz de mando
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/18/S01.HTM
_______________________________________________
En el largo camino del canto
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/18/S02.HTM
________________________________________________
Tacuaremb=C3=B3 y Medell=C3=ADn hermanadas por decisi=C3=B3n oficial
http://www.diarioelpais.com/edicion/cultura.shtml#4
________________________________________________
Bambalinas Eleonora Cassano
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/20/S14.HTM
________________________________________________
Sobre el nacimiento de Sabato
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/23/G07.HTM
__________________________________________________
El camino literario de un referente
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/23/G08.HTM
________________________________________________
Recuerdos de un viaje especial
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/23/G09.HTM
________________________________________________
Diario El Pais-no habra mas penas ni olvido
http://www.diarioelpais.com/edicion/index.shtml#portada
_______________________________________________
La murga no termina en Carnaval
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/26/S06.HTM
______________________________________________
Especulaciones sobre Gardel
http://www.clarin.com.ar/diario/99-06-26/c-01201d.htm
__________________________________________________
Una escuela deTacuarembo, se llama Carlos Gardel
http://www.diarioelpais.com/edicion/sociedad.shtml#4
_________________________________________________
Culmina hoy la Semana Gardeliana
http://www.diarioelpais.com/edicion/sociedad.shtml#5>
___________________________________________________
El otro sexo del tango
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/30/S01.HTM
_____________________________________________
Ellas marcan el ritmo
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/06/30/S02.HTM
________________________________________________
Murga para este fin de siglo
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/03/S18.HTM
_______________________________________________
Un puente a la m=C3=BAsica
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/05/S03.HTM
_______________________________________________
El estilo de Boris Vian
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/05/S04.HTM
_________________________________________________
Un programa para las "t=C3=ADpicas" del tango
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/07/S07.HTM
_________________________________________________
Las orquestas del tango, retratadas en cap=C3=ADtulos
http://www.pagina12.com.ar/1999/99-07/99-07-07/pag26.htm
____________________________________________________
La escena nacional gana presencia en el mundo
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/08/S08.HTM
_______________________________________________
Tango y vals, en el Palacio de los Papas
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/08/S09.HTM
__________________________________________________
En Alemania, como en casa
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/08/S10.HTM
_________________________________________________
Balance estetico
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/08/S11.HTM
______________________________________________
"Tango por Pablo"
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/08/S13.HTM
____________________________________________
El film m=C3=A1s prohibido, en su tierra
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/09/S07.HTM
__________________________________________________
Amelita Baltar, tango visceral
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/09/S15.HTM
_______________________________________________
Ecos de una misteriosa Buenos Aires
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/07/09/S16.HTM
_______________________________________________
En Avignon, todos bailan todos bailan
http://www.pagina12.com.ar/1999/99-07/99-07-09/pag25.htm
_____________________________________________________
COMO SERA LA OPERA DE BORGES Y PIAZZOLLA
http://www.clarin.com.ar/diario/99-07-04/c-00601d.htm
_____________________________________________
Bueno amigos, creo que hay de todo y para todos los gustos...
Aprovecho la oportunidad, para invitarles a visitar la pagina de Tita
Merello, una mujer que trabajo como hombre para ser mujer. Ella es
tango, arrabal, milonga, es Tita de Buenos Aires
Un humilde homenaje en vida a Tita de Buenos Aires
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Atrium/6975/
http://situar.com.ar/tita
Un abrazo Milonguero
L @dy
~`''~
_oOO_(~ o)_OOo_____________________
(_)
Lic. Liliana E. Tijman
Kinesiologa.
____________________________________
L @dy forever like a TANGO!! (slso.. LU7AUI)
ICQ 37615582
______________________________________________
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/4011/tango.htm
http://situar.com.ar/lady_tango
End of TANGO-L Digest - 9 Jul 1999 to 10 Jul 1999
*************************************************