The Tango-L mailing list archive

Digest from 2 Jul 1999 to 3 Jul 1999




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Subject:  TANGO-L Digest - 2 Jul 1999 to 3 Jul 1999

There are 14 messages totalling 701 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Omar Vega in Orlando &Boston 2. Faguchiclowns 3. TANGO-L Digest - 30 Jun 1999 to 1 Jul 1999 4. Tango Publications? 5. TANGO-L Digest - 27 Jun 1999 to 28 Jun 1999 6. NEW TANGO 7. New Tango 8. In San Francisco Monday 28th..no tango in the city tonight? 9. Updated web page... 10. New Tango... (2) 11. Santa Fe Retreat 12. "American" Argentine Tango 13. New tango, old pizza dough (Salas, Chicho, Naveira)


Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:40:41 EDT From: Verena Faigle <VERENAV @AOL.COM> Subject: Omar Vega in Orlando &Boston Dear List! Omar Vega will start his tour to the US in July in Orlando, Florida and Boston, Masachusetts. In Orlando his workshops will be organized by Rhythmic Harmony Productions: Fellow Milongueros, we invite you to join us for a first-time visit from Omar Vega, one of Buenos Aires' finest Milongueros. Dates: Saturday, July 17 and Sunday, July 18. Location: Deer Creek Clubhouse by Sea World (call for map) Schedule & Cost: Saturday - Beginning Milonga - 1:30-3pm Begin. Tango Para La Pista - 3:30-5pm MILONGA (8:30 - 11:30pm) Sunday - Interm./Adv. Milonga - 1:30 - 3pm Interm/Adv.Tango Para La Pista-3:30-5pm Cost: $35 per workshop. MILONGA - $10 or FREE if you take 2 or more workshops. Private lessons with Omar available - by appointment only. Call Rhythmic Harmony Productions, Inc. at 407-465-0617 to register. Payment in advance required to reserve limited space. Please make checks payable to: Rhythmic Harmony Productions, Inc. Mail to: P. O. Box 690008, Orlando, FL 32869-0008 In Boston he'll be 24th/25th of July. He'll do 2 Milonga and 1 Tango workshops. More specified information within a few days on this list... Omar Vega is considered one of the best of the "young generation" of dancers making their mark on the dance floors of Buenos Aires. Omar Vega has taught repeatedly in the USA including New York, Seattle, San Francisco and Boston as well as in cities in Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands. His trademark is a calm style based on rhythymically flowing movements with small and fast "traspie", surprising his audience with an innovative interplay of music and new steps. Guided by a love of music, his joy of dancing is translated into limitless variations of arrangements and styles. Omar Vega is especially known as a master of Milonga. He is unsurpassed in Buenos Aires in the small, syncopated steps that makes Milonga into an expressive and passionate experience. His use of Traspie Technique allows the dancer to play with the beat without leaving the traditional core of Tango. In Tango Omar Vega teaches beautiful, small steps which can be danced anywhere. Many are inspired and influenced by the embrace and this interplay of emotions and movements which allow dancers to have an exhilerating dance experience. it is based on the unwritten rule of Buenos Aires to only dance a figure when there is enough room to do so and to interpret the music without forcing the partner to dance a predefined figure. The workshop is a must for all who would like to learn the intricate rules of Buenos Aires Salon Dancing. Those who were trying to get in contact with Omar Vega can also easily do so by sending me an e-mail: verenav @aol.com For further information please feel free to contact me. Omar will start a tour in Europe in October. Verena


Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:31:13 PDT From: Pepito La Chofa <badchioce @HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Faguchiclowns Hi list, Victor Crichton wrote: >If you don't like the way Chicho dressed, don't dress like that. But >what does the way he dresses have to do with how he dances? ... >This has >nothing to do with Tango. 1. The way he dresses has nothing to do with the way one may dance at any particular time, there we agree. Chicho could dance naked and this wouldn't affect his dancing. But that was not my point. 2. You may agree with me that every traditional-popular dance has a particular dress code that characterizes it: for Mexican jarabe tapatio (La Bamba) there is a dress code, for hardcore-house there is one, for Cuban danzon there is a dress code, for American country dances there is dress code, for punk pogo or mosh there was a dress code, for Brazilian samba there is a dress code, and yes, for tango there is a traditional dress code. (Note for compulsive rebels: yes, you may wear a kilt when you go dancing if it pleases you. I like chinos myself) 3. When an artist (like Chicho) choses to violate this dress code by consistently wearing attires that are not representative of anything in the popular dance he has chosen to represent, it takes a certain level of ignorance about performing arts not to see that this attitude constitutes a message. (All the more in the case of Chicho, an educated professional actor, who preferred Moliere. Do read about Moliere to understand Chicho the clown). And to me, the message is: I want to be original, I want to be original, I want to be original, I want to be original. Or rather: I don't give a flying #*0$! about what others did before me to create and preserve this treasure, it's my turn now and I'm gonna have some fun! And make a buck! Ha, ha. >As long as we respect the laws of society there is nothing wrong with >expressing ourselves. We are all individuals and have a right to be >unique. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! (Brian: "You are all individuals" Crowd in unison: "Yes! We-are-all-indi-vi-duals!") >What comes >from all of them, as well as all of the other teachers I met at CITA, is >their obvious love of Tango. This is where I put my question marks. In a recent interview, Chicho said that he hated tango music since he was a child and until the first day he took a tango-dance lesson, less than four years ago. He also says he does not see any difference between the way tango is danced in Argentina and the US or Europe (he wasn't speaking figuratively, either). As for Salas, he said tango for him is gymnastics; which is a way to neglect his critics by adopting as his the very faults he is criticized for (displaying an utter cynical attitude towards the community that cares about what happens to our tango). You call that love? >It is that very love of Tango that makes as argue so emotionally about >what we believe is right or wrong and I appreciate that we have this list >to >express our opinions and to hear the opinions of others. Me too. But then, let's not try to hush each other when the tough gets going. Pepito La Chofa La vida es una milonga ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:07:05 +0100 From: Daniel Machado <Daniel_Machado @AMSINC.COM> Subject: Re: TANGO-L Digest - 30 Jun 1999 to 1 Jul 1999 I'll be on Brussels from the 17th to the 23th of July Could someone tell me if and where is possible to dance Tango. Is there any Milonga? Thanks Daniel


Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:22:43 EDT From: John E Westerlage <john.westerlage @JUNO.COM> Subject: Tango Publications? The announcement for "La Voz del Tango" brings up a question. Are there any other Tango publications? I'd be interested in Spanish, English and German language publications. Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions. jew ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:39:04 PDT From: Hamza Zeytinoglu <hamzaz @HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: TANGO-L Digest - 27 Jun 1999 to 28 Jun 1999 Ah Pepito! It's too late to frown now, Fabian and Gustavo have already marked the Tango history in the nineties. All around the world they have promoted Tango and done that in their own way. For some like me, the understanding of the dynamics of each step and to be able to communicate what's going on to others through a bravely systematized approach is a reason to dance for. I have admiration for many top level dancers and am able to see and feel their unique contribution to this amazing world. As much as Nito, Facundo, Mingo and many others, there are younger ones who are the new pillars of the revival of Argentine Tango. Fabian and Chicho (I have great admiration for them - I haven't met Gustavo) are very respectful dancers and they are in search of a mode in Tango which coincides with the developing aspects of life such as independence, self-confidence, and expressiveness. I've never observed them stealing others' space on the dance floor, but I've seen them many a times expressing themselves at the peek of their ability, hand in hand with their partners in mutual creativity. And, meanwhile Chicho's colorful shoes merely demonstrate a portion of the rich colors of his soul. There is nothing to be threatened about. Even if he is, he is the most elegant "clown", and yes with his profound knowledge of acting and dancing and arts and music he knows exactly what he's doing... Give examples of conventional dancers and praise them, you will see how each one can be criticized. Vulgar approaches like yours will only be applaused by the Tango police. Let everyone dance, their own way! Sincerely, Hamza Zeytinoglu Cambridge, MA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com


Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:10:17 +0000 From: "~DANCE MORE TANGO~" <24tango @BELLSOUTH.NET> Subject: NEW TANGO Hello the list, I have also spent much time in BA and many nights at Cochabamba 444 where Gustavo Naviera and others practice the "New Tango", which as Claude Dumont suggests, is not for everyone. Call me old fashioned, I prefer to dance Tango cheek to cheek and not separated by arms length from my partner. In this new style the gentleman periodically drops his left hand, leaving the lady to follow as best as possible under the circumstances. Even the girl that dances with him (Naviera) quite regularly seems to be a loss as to what to do with her dangling right hand. The style also takes a lot of space which makes it impossible to dance in a typical milonga. It has been suggested to me by dancers there that this is not a new style, but an old style being brought back and revised. Regards to all, Norma Greco http://www.dancemoretango.com


Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:31:18 +0200 From: Virginia Gift <vgift @IBM.NET> Subject: New Tango I am sorry to be so dense, but I'm new to all this. Could someone please identify "New Tango?" How does it differ from "milonguero style?" Thanks very much. Virginia Gift


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:26:49 -0500 From: rri-neosoft <rri @STARBASE.NEOSOFT.COM> Subject: In San Francisco Monday 28th..no tango in the city tonight? Dear All: Where to dance tango on Monday night in San Francisco? In New York Monday is the big practica. I am here working E-Commerce websites for SF clients. I am here from Houston and fresh from New York and Washington D.C. practicas. Would like to dance here in the city or in South Bay this week if possible, but where?. Just read all the zillions of SF web pages and thoroughly confused..lol. Can any one help me out? Thanks. Derik Rawson rri @neosoft.com Houston Tango Web Page http://www.neosoft.com/~rri/tango/ Houston Tango Web Page Chatroom http://www.neosoft.com/~rri/tango/wtchat.html PS - Susana Miller is fun to dance with.


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:21:23 EDT From: "Stephen T. Chin-Bow" <CHIN-BOW @SACC.HSCBKLYN.EDU> Subject: Updated web page... Hello Tango-L, I just updated my New York City tango web page. The URL is http://hallux.medschool.hscbklyn.edu/~chin-bow/ I also set up a mirror at: http://members.xoom.com/tango_nyc/ If you think my web site is a useful addition to the "tango literature" please add a link to my page in your list of tango web sites. My site, which was the first major NYC Argentine tango web page is NOT simply a list of tango events in NYC (which Richard Lipkin maintains). If you know details about the NYC tango community you will know that Richard Lipkin's site is NOT "non-partisan" as he claims. My site expresses personal opinions about the Argentine tango in NYC, and I think my opinions are valuable (if there new to tango in NYC and you cannot decide between two events which overlap how do you decide which event to attend?). My site also has sections about: 1) tango/BsAs etiquette 2) stories about friends' trips to BsAs (plus general BsAs travel info) 3) how to dance the tango (meant to supplement classes, not to substitute; plus descriptions of factors to help new students decide where to study and how to improve your navigation at crowded milongas) 4) my personal approach to tango (including pet peeves and personal essays) 5) observations about the Argentine tango in New York City 6) information about where to dance/learn/watch tango in NYC 7) information about traveling to NYC (hotels, subways, airports, etc) I have updated many of the sections. Conversations with friends and email from people who read the previous versions indicated that unless a person read certain sections together my "opinions" could be interpreted in many ways. I think the current version is much more clear. I am very busy these days, so I do not read the Tango-L very often. If you want me to respond to your comments about my page please send your email to me via private email. Thanks a lot.


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:01:21 +0200 From: Colin Brace <cb @LIM.NL> Subject: Re: New Tango... On 06/28/99 at 09:14 PM, Melinda Bates <tangerauna @earthlink.net> wrote: > Did you intend to so casually insult the women on this list, or is it > just your natural attitudes shining through? [snip] > You are welcome to your opinions about tango, but I hope you > will keep your neanderthal opinions about women to yourself. I'm not so sure Mr Niebert's observations were so far off the mark. From what I hear, Gustavo, Fabian, and others need never fear feeling lonely, either on the road or at home. Personally, I happen to know a woman who proffered herself to him on a recent trip to BsAs, and is rather proud of the fact. I expect GN has probably had several hundred such encounters. "Groupie fandom"? Sounds about right. Call it what you like. Among the vast majority of men in BsAs, tango and sex and go hand in hand, if you'll pardon the expression, the one "ideally" leading to the other. Whether it does in reality I won't say but only observe that not for nothing is there a hotel transitorio on practically every street corner in BsAs. This doesn't mean that those of us that go to BsAs for tango necessarily have to partake of the ritual, nor that we have to adopt this aspect of tango culture in the rest of the world, but denial on the part of prudish and puritanical Americans won't help us understand this complex social phenomenon, and certainly won't make it go away. >From what I understand, life for neanderthals was short, nasty, and brutish, but at least they could enjoy the rites of procreation in a wholesome, unencumbered way, something virtually extinct in this modern, "technological" age. Perhaps what makes tango so enjoyable is that it is an idealized, exquisite abstraction of a primordial urge, an abrazo turned (by some) into poetry in motion. -- Colin Brace <cb @lim.nl> Amsterdam http://www.lim.nl/tango


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:01:27 -0400 From: Kay Mullins <kayconnect @SEMC-ONLINE.COM> Subject: Santa Fe Retreat For>example, I was hoping to hear from someone who attended the tango week in>Santa Fe. How was it? In response to Melinda's request, here's my take on the Santa Fe Retreat: I really enjoyed the week. Luren and Michael did an exceptional job organizing and it was a first class event. Their high energy was contagious. From the venue of the Hotel Loretto, to the talented teachers, to the evening milongas with special touches, the overall ambience was friendly and upbeat. The quality of teaching and dancers was definitely above average. Leandro Palou & Andrea Misse became my favorites that week. The star-studded faculty also included Pablo Veron & partner Victoria, Milena Plebs & Gabriel Misse, and Danel & Maria. The special touches included surprise performances throughout the week, in addition to the instructors' performance on the last night; a fashion show with tangueras modeling & dancing down the runway; and a reception at a local gallery for artist Kris Hotvedt who does tango paintings. (The breakfasts, snacks, plentiful water pitchers & buffet dinners were appreciated, too.) And it didn't hurt that we could squeeze in visits to museums such as the new Georgie O'Keefe and enjoy the beauty of Santa Fe. The down side was that most classes were crammed so it was difficult to get individual attention. And the milongas were split into two rooms to accommodate everyone. I never got the count...someone said there were 260 in attendance, but next year it will be limited to 200. Kay


Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:23:36 -0800 From: Eric Larson <aneml @UAA.ALASKA.EDU> Subject: "American" Argentine Tango Sang was curious about the origins of the "Americanized" Argentine Tango. One source you may want to check out is the ballroom dancing manual written by Mr. and Mrs. Vernon Castle in 1914. They describe a very tame "Tango Argentine" available online at http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/musdi: @field(DOCID+ @lit(M24035)) The Castles assert that the dance originated with the Moors and the Argentines adopted it after "eliminating some of its gipsy traits.". I don't accept their historical analysis; but it is interesting to see how they adapted both the history and movements of the Argentine Tango to fit their British and American sensibilities. Another source is Richard Powers, a social dance historian at Stanford University. He teaches what he calls "Buenos Aires Tango" that is derived from a dance manual written by a resident of Buenos Aires near the turn of this century. This dance has a more open and flowing feeling than the Argentine Tango popular today. Eric aneml @uaa.alaska.edu


Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:07:57 -0400 From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: Re: New Tango...


Original Message----- From: Colin Brace <cb @LIM.NL> >On 06/28/99 at 09:14 PM, Melinda Bates wrote: > Did you intend to so casually insult the women on this list, or is it >> just your natural attitudes shining through? > >[snip] > >> You are welcome to your opinions about tango, but I hope you >> will keep your neanderthal opinions about women to yourself. > >I'm not so sure Mr Niebert's observations were so far off the mark. From >what I hear, Gustavo, Fabian, and others need never fear feeling lonely, >either on the road or at home. Personally, I happen to know a woman who >proffered herself to him on a recent trip to BsAs, and is rather proud >of the fact. I expect GN has probably had several hundred such >encounters. "Groupie fandom"? Sounds about right. Call it what you like. I do not question that this is so, nor did I question the morality of it, as you and others have read into my posting. What I was trying to say was that it is presumptuous of Peter to assume that all the ladies waiting for these dances were waiting for that reason. If you read the entire message, I wrote about WHY DANCING with these professionals is so exciting that it is worth standing in line for. >Among the vast majority of men in BsAs, tango and sex and go hand in >hand, if you'll pardon the expression, the one "ideally" leading to the >other. Whether it does in reality I won't say but only observe that not >for nothing is there a hotel transitorio on practically every street >corner in BsAs. This doesn't mean that those of us that go to BsAs for >tango necessarily have to partake of the ritual, nor that we have to >adopt this aspect of tango culture in the rest of the world, but denial >on the part of prudish and puritanical Americans won't help us >understand this complex social phenomenon, and certainly won't make it >go away. Again, I neither suggested we adopt it nor that we deny it is so. Here in Washington these teachers pass through, and it is relatively obvious that they do not lack for companionship. I consider that a private matter, of no particular interest to me. If women throw themselves at men who have status because of their abilities, well, that is as old as neanderthals! (And makes perfectly good sense if you believe in the continuation of the species. But that is another discussion...) I have not noticed that men have stopped throwing themselves at beautiful women young enough to be their daughters, regardless of their skill at tango (still another discussion). What I did say is that there are many reasons for wanting to dance with Fabian or Pablo, and that it is insulting to many women to assume only the sexual/groupie/fan reason. It appears to me there is personal animus behind many of the current comments. People may have what they consider to be good reasons for this attitude, but it is (IMO) irrelevant to the dance. Pablo Picasso was a dreadful person, and one of the great geniuses of the century. We don't ignore his art because he was a terrible husband and father. There is a very interesting discussion going on now on the list about the virtues or vices of dancing "new tango". I am no expert on tradition or analysis, but can tell you from my experience, the dance is intensely satisfying, regardless of the distance between partners. It is physically and mentally demanding for both leader and follower. The negative comments about the follower being nothing more than a prop have all come from men. I assure you, if the follower has not practiced and paid her tango dues, she would be lost. (Although it is also true that a leader at that level can make you do things you did not know you could do!) When this dance works, the feeling is fabulous, exhilarating. It is the closest I ever expect to come to flying. As you say below, it is poetry in motion. I would happily stand in line to experience this again. >>From what I understand, life for neanderthals was short, nasty, and >brutish, but at least they could enjoy the rites of procreation in a >wholesome, unencumbered way, something virtually extinct in this modern, >"technological" age. Perhaps what makes tango so enjoyable is that it is >an idealized, exquisite abstraction of a primordial urge, an abrazo >turned (by some) into poetry in motion. > Yes, I have described tango to my non-dancing friends as the most fun two people can have in public - not quite as poetic as your description, but adequate for soulless non-dancers..... Melinda


Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:35:08 -0600 From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET> Subject: Re: New tango, old pizza dough (Salas, Chicho, Naveira) Short Summary of elements of interest to the new tango of Gustavo, etal. -Overturned Ochos -Balance of Axes -Changes of Direction (aka "alterations") -Boleos built out of contra-body movements in addition to the normal "with"-ochos -Sacadas by the woman done to the man. -Back ochos by the man (leading to the back sacada). -Analyzing the woman's steps as "pizza pies" about the man's axis. -Strong front-to-front connection not so necessary. In my observation, understanding and practicing these elements leads to a smooth, balanced and (yes) connected tango. It permits easy execution of the new vocabulary ("alterations"). It also permits easier execution of "normal" tango. This stuff is fun, but I maintain it is a "big" tango, like stage/fantasy tango, where the pleasure is in boleos, ganchos, gross body motions and surprising changes of direction, not wiggles, subtlety and intimacy. When I play with fantasy tango, I use this knowledge a lot. But...I still find MORE pleasure in the close embrace as I wrote before: >> Close embrace tango plays with very subtle leads, slight wiggles, traded >> decorations, and a game of cat-and-mouse between the leader and follower, >> that you just don't get to do with the big, liquid tango. > >Alexis: >I don't see this as being a function of close-embrace or open-frame >tango -- in particular, I know lots of close embrace milongueros who are >extremely bland, and I tend to do the things you ascribe to >close-embrace tango in *any* connection I have with my partner (I think >I'm pretty infamous for that ;) ). > >It is true, however, that dancing in a dull way is more glaringly >obvious to the outside world when you do *not* dance a close embrace. > >And it *is* much harder to lose the connection to your partner in close >embrace, too, while it requires much more effort to maintain a >connection with an open frame. If you lose the connection, playing with >subtle leads etc. indeed becomes impossible. > >Alexis Cousein al @brussels.sgi.com For me "real" tango is (mostly) about connection, which is easier to maintain physically in a closer or firmer embrace. However, that ignores that an intense connection can be an emotional thing as well. In the case of the Gustavo analysis, it can certainly be felt over a distance. Chicho's expression of the Liquid Tango, to take the person who visually seems to stray the furthest from "traditional" tango, maintains a tremendous connection to his partner. This is built on his spatial awareness and knowledge of his axis, the woman's axis, and the balance between them. He is both intuitive AND analytical, to which I'll testify, having studied with him, not just watched him. He also respects traditional tango; again, I'll testify that he refused to teach the "new" stuff until we had developed better skills with the traditional. Once we know about the greater world we can't return to our village. For me, the new tango is about balance of axes, which might simply be a kinetic awareness, but once we understand it, it changes everything, and can be applied to the rest of our dance. New steps? A few. Easier steps? certainly. >> I agree with the critics that performing the New Tango requires tremendous >> technical skill. It takes us away from social tango which mere mortal >> should be able to learn. >> > >It all depends on what you do. If by "new tango" you mean completely >shredding the tango vocabulary to parts and reassembling the elements in >a new way -- yes, it requires mastery of the old form *first*. That >doesn't mean you can't apply some elements of it in your dance even when >you are "a mere mortal", as long as you are humble enough not to >overreach. > >Alexis Cousein al @brussels.sgi.com Yes, this new material helps with normal tango. But, it still looks to me like the skill necessary to pursue this style (i.e. the Chicho/Fabian/Veron style) is beyond the skill of most social dancers, in the same way that the fantasy/stage tango of Zotto(s)/Copes/ForeverTango/etal demands serious study and a lot of dedication, if not a background in ballet or modern dance. Was it Martha Graham who said it takes ten years to learn to dance? On the other hand, Close Embrace or Social/Salon Tango with a good connection to your partner and the music is accessible to anyone who dedicates themselves to it. I hasten to add that one hour per week is not sufficient. I'm not saying that milonguero style is simple, although I think it is easier to get to a basic, decent level. As in other tango forms, you don't really start learning until after you have done it for a while. The 10 year dancers of close embrace have many, many tricks and wonderful subtlety. Tom Stermitz 2612 Clermont St Denver, CO 80207 Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors "On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory." (303) 388 - 2560 stermitz @ragtime.org http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/ http://www.tango.org/dance/


End of TANGO-L Digest - 2 Jul 1999 to 3 Jul 1999 ************************************************