The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 27 Feb 1999
to 28 Feb 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 03:00:01 -0500
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 27 Feb 1999 to 28 Feb 1999
There are 15 messages totalling 594 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Dancing by the beat only (5)
2. News from BAires
3. dancing in Honolulu (2)
4. Anchorage Tango
5. Palomita Blanca by ???
6. Milongas in CinnMycinati
7. Milonga in Brighton or Bristol England?
8. More Info on Transcribing Your Vinyls to CDs
9. Saturday - Sunday Tango in NY ?
10. Dancing Pugliese with Brigitte Winkler workshop in Colorado
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:09:03 -0800
From: Jim & Ronnie McCullough <ronnie @SONIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Dear Guy and Other Beginners
In learning AT, it has been our experience that the beginning stage
lasts much longer and that the learning curve is very slow if one is
taking one class per week and has not had basic lead, follow experience
or other dance background (mine is Balkan dance, his Cajun and Rock and
Roll). It took us 18 lessons just to walk around the room without
crashing or stepping on each other's feet.
You have had about six weeks of AT. Unless you are dancing two or three
times a week or taking private lessons, you may be expecting too much
right now. We have been dancing for a year and a half and after the
first four months we decided to take two lessons a week. This was the
best decision we could make as we could not remember the lesson long
enough to practice at home. Two sessions a week accelerated our
progress mightily.
I want to honor all beginning leaders by agreeing with another writer
who pointed out you are doing at least eight things simultaneously
including knowing where the follower's feet are (this comes slowly).
It takes many hours of dancing hours in class and in the milongas to
build the confidence needed to dance successfully, especially with more
experienced women. My husband Jim still prefers to dance with women he
has met in class or at the local milongas rather than dancing with a
complete stranger (translate that as a complete unknown). However, he
has learned that his dancing improves quite a lot whenever he can break
out of his comfort zone.
We attended our first milonga in SF this past month and had a wonderful
time, even though most of the dancers there had a much higher level of
expertise. People were friendly and the music was wonderful.
There is probably the highest attrition rate in AT than in any other
social dance, so you have to love it so much you are willing to commit
to years of learning and small successes at first (the walk, leading
ochoes, keeping your upper body still when you are not leading a step,
etc).
Hang in there, Guy, you have a lot of company and many women out there
who will hang in there with you.
Ronnie
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:23:55 -0800
From: JC Dill <tango @VO.CNCHOST.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
On 05:08 PM 2/26/99 -0600, Stephen P Brown wrote:
> Without having witnessed the events Guy described, I cannot comment
> directly. Let me contribute a few observations:
>
> Dancing on something other than the beat can be quite confusing to the
> follower if the lead is not absolutely clear.
>
> Establishing a connection with the follower is desirable before
> deliberately deviating from the beat.
And as a follower who has been thinking about this for the past two days, I
think you found the issue.
I have never complained about an AT dancer's way of following the beat, as
long as the LEAD matched the movement *he* was doing. Dancing in a
syncopated fashion is OK in AT. But not dancing with your partner is NOT OK.
I think Guy needs to worry less about his rhythm and more about his lead.
As a beginner, his lead is almost certainly the area where he has the most
room for improvement :-). I suspect he knows when *he* wants to step (he
has his way of moving with the rhythm clearly mapped out in his head), but
I suspect that he isn't communicating this clearly enough to his partners
and their attempts to guess and dance strongly ON the beat (absent a
mark/lead to tell them to do otherwise) causes communication difficulties
on the dance floor, either they are early, or late, or moving when he has
wanted to pause a beat, etc. Guy, is this the case? Do you have times
when your follower steps differently than when you wanted her to step,
because she was hearing the music differently?
Time your mark to your "internal drummer". Communicate (with your lead,
your mark) to your partner that you hear, feel, are interpreting the music.
Your lead needs to be clear to reassure her that you will clearly mark to
her when to step so that together you will dance to the syncopated rhythms
you hear.
Hope This Helps.
jc
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:24:59 -0300
From: Tijman Liliana <lady @FIBERTEL.COM.AR>
Subject: News from BAires
Hola amigos de la Tango_L
Una vez mas, les hago llegar algunos links, extraidos de los diarios de
Buenos Aires. Por supuesto, mucha actividad,lamentablemente un mes de
muchas bajas tangueras, y hoy la alegria de un justo Grammy, para un
enorme Piazzolla, sin Piazzolla., pero si para su musica, Soul of the
Tango y sus musicos Marconi, Agri, Malvicino, Console, Gandini, Yo-Yo
Ma.
El Grammy para : Soul of the Tango (Alma de Tango)
http://www.clarin.com.ar/ Jueves 25 de febrero de 1999
Rufino, una voz de oro
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/25/S13.HTM
Las patrias del acordeon
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/22/S05.HTM
Balcarce: del viol+AO0-n al bandone+APM-n sin escalas
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/21/S06.HTM
Carlos Acu+APE-a la voz que evoc+APM- Gardel
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/20/S05.HTM
El recuerdo de sus amigos
http://www.clarin.com.ar/Viernes 19 de febrero de 1999
Tania.Una vida muy intensa
http://www.clarin.com.ar/Viernes 19 de febrero de 1999
Murio Tania, leyenda del tango
http://www.clarin.com.ar/Viernes 19 de febrero de 1999
La ultima despedida
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/19/S06.HTM
Por Tania, el tango qued+APM- sin palabras
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/19/S05.HTM
Parroquianos ilustres opinan
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/17/G11.HTM
Cumple 140 a+APE-os el caf+AOk- mas antiguo de B.Aires
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/17/G09.HTM
Otros bares ilustres que perduran
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/17/G10.HTM
EE.UU. baila "Tango"
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/18/S07.HTM
La bella del Tango
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/17/S09.HTM
Elogios para "Tango" en los EE. UU.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/13/S08.HTM
La nueva batalla del Oscar
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/11/S04.HTM
Bocca y el tango del Oscar
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/11/S03.HTM
Garci: "Saura merece el galard+Kzw-!-- selection start -->
http://www.elperiodico.es/EDICION/ED990210/CAS/CARP01/tex059.htm
Saura: +AKs-Gustan mis musicales+ALs- Madrid
http://www.abc.es/abc/fijas/cultura/015pa00.htm
'El Abuelo' y 'Tango' competiran por el Oscar Madrid
http://www.elpais.es/p/d/19990210/cultura/oscars.htm
Hasta aca las noticias, agregue nuevos links en mi paguina
milonguera, si alguien, quiere figurar en ella, solo bastara, hacermelo
saber con el titulo, el nombre y URL...
Un fuerte abrazo milonguero, del Buenos Aires, que los espera
L @dy
Lic. Liliana E. Tijman
Kinesiologa.
L @dy forever like a TANGO!! (slso.. LU7AUI)
ICQ 814335
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/4011/tango.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/4011/geriatria.htm
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:41:52 EST
From: Digest Polly McBride <ATANGO2 @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Hello Guy,
Probably with few exceptions, every new tanguero has experienced the
frustration you have clearly described. (Tangueras are not excluded from this
uncomfortable phenomenon either.)
I think you hit the target by recognizing that there is so much information
being processed in the gray matter that rhythm takes a back step, so to speak.
I have seen tangueros in classes, milongas, and practicas who have excellent
rhythm, struggle with each step and combination while trying to incorporate
frame, balance, figures, partner's needs, traffic, and distractions. In the
process their rhythm skills become temporarily hidden from view.
When dancing with a new tanguero, (or experienced ones who are learning new
combinations, footwork, and lead skills) I have learned to overlook the
temporarily irregular rhythmic skills and understand the myriad of mental and
physical processing that is being done. Almost always, after the details of
the figures and lead are learned, the rhythm magically returns.
This topic would make a good subject for an entire workshop.
Women who have led at all understand completely, because the game rules change
entirely from the other side of the frame. When I lead, very amateurishly
still, it is incredibly more difficult to stay in rhythm while planning every
step, and thinking ahead two or three steps, while leading my follow so she
also steps in rhythm! The slightest distraction or mismovement on either of
our parts and whoosh! out goes the rhythm. It returns, of course, when we get
back in to walking or other safe domain.
Temporary Loss of Rhythm is just that, temporary. I believe that good rhythm
and good balance are two things that can be practiced, but not entirely
instilled. We either have them or we don't. If they are intact during
relaxed times, they will return.
Experience, floor miles, and cooperative, understanding partners are the keys
to minimizing future "situations".
Tango On, Guy.
Polly McBride
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:46:42 -0800
From: smling <smling @EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: dancing in Honolulu
I will be in Honolulu on Wednesday and Thursday nights next week. Can
anyone recommend some good tango places?
Stella
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:49:01 -0900
From: Eric Larson <aneml @UAA.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anchorage Tango
I've created a very simple web page listing practices, classes,
and events for the Argentine Tango community in Anchorage
Alaska at http://www.alaska.net/~seb/dbears/Tango.html
Tango is just coming alive in Anchorage due largely to the hard
work of Anne Sanchis of Two to Tango.
Eric Larson
aneml @uaa.alaska.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:00:13 +0100
From: Peter van Munster <MunsterSoft @CSI.COM>
Subject: Palomita Blanca by ???
I've nothing whatsoever to say about the VW commercial. Either it's not
aired here in The Netherlands or I've missed it. All the more I can say
about the Hemisphere CD. The outer sleeve mentions (as you quoted) the
'Fransisco Varela' orchestra as performer of Palomita Blanca. However the
accompanying booklet talks about the 'Hector Varela' orchestra, which (at
least to me) is a far more familiar name.
So: who's right? (my guess is 'Hector')
Peter
> --
> If you dance with a Grizzly Bear,
> you had better let him lead.
Who'd like to dance with a bear unless you're Simon Smith (the reference is
obvious, or is it??)
P.
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:38:26 -0700
From: Naomi Bennett <naomiben @SWBELL.NET>
Subject: Milongas in CinnMycinati
My husband has overnite stays in this town several times a month.
How is tango there? Is there milongas, were and when?
Thx for a reply. Are there excellent teachers were he could pick up a
lesson one night?
Naomi Bennett
Austin, TX
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:40:20 -0700
From: Naomi Bennett <naomiben @SWBELL.NET>
Subject: Milonga in Brighton or Bristol England?
My husband flies overnight to these cities and didn't find any milonga
there. Does anyone have better information?
From Web searches, it looks like London is the only place for milongas.
Naomi Bennett
Austin, TX
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:13:19 -0800
From: "Richard A. deSousa" <m1aport @PACBELL.NET>
Subject: More Info on Transcribing Your Vinyls to CDs
Here is a website at Adaptec for those still interested in transcribing
their 33s, 45s, and 78s to CDs.
http://www.adaptec.com/products/overview/needforcdr.html
Rich deSousa
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:51:28 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Previously I wrote:
>People for whom tango music is relatively unfamiliar often have a
>difficult time hearing and moving to the beat. Listening to tango
>music at home and in the car can improve one's ability to hear the
>beat. Simply walking to the beat of tango music that has a clear
>slow beat such as most played by DiSarli and some played by Canaro
>and Calo can improve one's ability to dance on the beat.
Let me offer my list 60 minutes of music for learning to hear the beat
of tango. It moves from music with a very clear beat to music with
more complex rhythms.
The first 30 minutes:
Canaro -- La Melodia de Nuestro Adios -|from La Melodia de Nuestro
-- El Pescante -|Adios (El Bandoneon)
-- Pampa -|
Calo -- Yo Soy el Tango -| from Yo Soy el Tango
-- Lejos de Buenos Aires -| (El Bandoneon)
-- Sans Souci -|
-- La Maleva - from Pa' Que Bailen Los Muchachos (Blue Moon)
DiSarli -- A la Gran Muneca -|
-- El Cabure -| from Milonguero Viejo (Music Hall)
-- Milonguero Viejo -|
DeAngelis -- Compradon - from from Adios Marinero (El Bandoneon)
The second 30 minutes
D'Arienzo -- Retintin -| from El Rey del Compas
-- Don Esteban -| (El Bandoneon)
-- El Irrestible -|
-- Union Civica -|
Troilo -- Quejas de Bandoneon -| from Su Mejores Momentos
-- Don Juan -| (Music Hall)
-- El Pollo Ricardo -|
-- Malena - from Del Tiempo Guapo (El Bandoneon)
Pugliese -- La Yumba - from The Tango Lesson (Sony)
-- Recuerdo - from Recuerdo (El Bandoneon)
-- Rembranzas - from Ausencia (EMI Odeon)
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:33:43 -0800
From: AisA <aisstilla @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Saturday - Sunday Tango in NY ?
As a newcomer to the New York scene, can anyone make suggestions about
the Saturday and Sunday milongas in NY ?
In R. Lipkin's web site I have seen Danel & Maria, also Tango A la
Turca for Saturday and Dance Sport for Sunday.
Thanks
Rachel
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:09:48 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing Pugliese with Brigitte Winkler workshop in Colorado
>Hi
>
>I lost the information about the Pugliese workshop
>announced in Colorado. Can the person that posted it
>please send it to me again at
>mmadrid @psc.edu
>thank you!
>
>Marcela
Apologies for posting this twice, but I don't want anyone to confuse this
with Esther, Mingo or Pablo Pugliese.
Note that the title of the workshop is "Dancing Pugliese". The instructor
is Brigitte Winkler. First Class is Thursday Evening in Boulder, Colorado,
followed by weekend classes in Denver on "Close Embrace" and Denver on
"Lego Tango".
> Dancing Pugliese with Brigitte Winkler
> Denver & Boulder, Colorado March 4 - 8, 1999
>
> Brigitte Winkler returns to Colorado the first weekend in March. Brigitte
> will work with drama, passion and sensitivity in this workshop entitled
> Dancing Pugliese.
>
> Fluent in many styles of tango, Brigitte will teach several classes in
> close-embrace (milonguero style) tango, useful for dancing in crowded clubs
> such as the Parakultural in Buenos Aires or the Mercury Cafe in Denver.
>
> Brigitte has been teaching tango for many years in Berlin, one of the most
> developed tango communities in Europe. Two primary interests of hers are
> the close-embrace tango and mind-body awareness. Her teaching emphasizes
> the embrace, body-awareness and sensitive communication with your partner.
>
> Brigitte Winkler along with Rebecca Shulman, Angelika Fischer, Valeria
> Solomonoff and Fabienne Bongard make up the dance group "Tango Mujer" which
> has presented several well-received tango performances in New York and
> Europe. Tango Mujer will be performing in Colorado this July as part of the
> Colorado Dance Festival.
Tom Stermitz
2512 Clermont St
Denver, CO 80207
Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors
"On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory."
(303) 388 - 2560
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/
http://www.tango.org/dance/
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:48:52 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
> Guy Barbe <gbarbe @SELEC.NET>
>wrote on Friday, February 26, 1999 11:41 AM:
>
>> ... I got beat up on pretty good about not hearing or listening to the
>music, the beat in particular.
>> ..... My style of dance is more flowing as opposed to being "rooted"
>> to the floor and very rhythmic I am somewhere in between. I am very
>> much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody
>
>... Nevertheless, the frame of
>reference for all your movements will be the cadence of the music. You will
>keep coming back to the beat from your excursions into "flowing" with the
>melody. The melody may flow, but it too is anchored in the beat.
>
...
>____________________
>Walter M. (Tangringo) Kane
>Harriman, NY
>oldzeid @frontiernet.net
I really liked Walter's comment that the beat is a necessary reference
point for both leader and follower. I also endorse Bruss's and Kathleen's
request that you dance the simple steps with quality and passion.
I also have to highlight Bruss's mention of DiSarli. I have listened to
DiSarli instrumental music at so many classes and practices that it is
almost like a meditation or a chant. While there was a point where I was
tired of DiSarli, when someone pops it on at a milonga, I am each time
newly stunned by the density and texture of the music. Time and space seem
to dilate, as the moments in between the beats become living
creatures...not breathless sprites like Biagi, more like deep-breathing sea
creatures.
Beat, melody and phrasing all are important elements for interpreting
tango. Tango is unusual in that dramatic pauses are permitted. Tension
builds as beats escape. This is a little disturbing to ears accustomed to
Jazz, Rock or N.American folk music. The most common observation of
Argentines on seeing Americans dance tango (even "experienced" dancers) is
that they are too fast; it is as if they can't tolerate to let the beats to
slip away.
Tango is complex rhythmically and melodically. I notice that even good
musicians (who are not used to the Argentine feeling) find it more natural
to play the entertwining melodies than the entertwining rhythms. This is
true of non-Argentine vintage orchestras and classical musicians. I notice
most non-Argentine dancers play with the melody and phrasing before they
learn to play with the rhythms. It is so authentic for argentines to play &
tease & trick with the beats, rather than dancing them square and
march-like. (The insipid nightmare of the parallel 8CB).
Try thinking of Tango as a "latin dance" like salsa in order to find the
playful rhythms and try thinking of it as a slow, passionate dance to find
the dramatic pauses.
The other very strange but critical tango thing is the rhythmic play, of
changing from crossed to parallel and back. This is THE FUNDAMENTAL BASIC
of tango: The Leader MUST have the ability to quick step to change parallel
to crossed sytem, and also MUST have the ability use the cross of the
follower to change systems.
But, returning to the beat: The leader leads the follower to step on the
beat; she does so (correctly interpreting his wishes). If the beat belongs
to the leader, the follower's territory is the space in between the beat.
In the hands of a true mistress of the Craft, this is awesome!
Tom Stermitz
2512 Clermont St
Denver, CO 80207
Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors
"On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory."
(303) 388 - 2560
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/
http://www.tango.org/dance/
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:29:58 -0700
From: Pelayo Llamas <pelayojr @LANMINDS.COM>
Subject: Re: dancing in Honolulu
smling wrote:
>=20
> I will be in Honolulu on Wednesday and Thursday nights next week. Can
> anyone recommend some good tango places?
> Stella
Try these contacts:
Tango Argentino Association de Hawaii (Aiea)=20
Aurora-Maria Dismuke AURORAMARIA @webtv.net=20
98-857 Laelua Place, Aiea, HI 96701=20
phone: (808) 488-9610, fax 484-4084=20
=20
Field's Dining & Dancing =A0(Puerta al Tango)
http://www.sceneamerica.com/fields.html=20
478 Ena Road, Waikiki, HI=20
phone: (808) 946-6499=20
=20
Puerta al Tango (Aiea)=20
Rose & Alberto Archilla mailto:alapaki @aol.com=20
2885-C Makuu LP, Aiea, HI 96701
End of TANGO-L Digest - 27 Feb 1999 to 28 Feb 1999
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