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Digest from 26 Feb 1999
to 27 Feb 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:00:02 -0500
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 26 Feb 1999 to 27 Feb 1999
There are 16 messages totalling 689 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tangofilm in Arte (2)
2. Pugliese workshop in Colorado
3. Dancing by the beat only (9)
4. TANGO ! opens in Boston, MA...
5. AIRFARES TO BsAs
6. TANGO ! opens in Toronto, Canada
7. Message for SF Bay Area - Forever Tango
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:27:29 +0100
From: Schulz Johannes <j.schulz @STR.DAIMLER-BENZ.COM>
Subject: Tangofilm in Arte
Hola muchachos !
There is today (26.Feb ) at 22:10 a Tango documetion film on arte in
the german TV!
It's sweden, polish and german cooperation.
I know nothing about the content of this film!
Ciao
Johannes
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:41:09 -0500
From: Marcela Madrid <mmadrid @PSC.EDU>
Subject: Pugliese workshop in Colorado
Hi
I lost the information about the Pugliese workshop
announced in Colorado. Can the person that posted it
please send it to me again at
mmadrid @psc.edu
thank you!
Marcela
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:41:43 -0600
From: Guy Barbe <gbarbe @SELEC.NET>
Subject: Dancing by the beat only
Dear list,
Need your opinions! Last night I got beat up on pretty good about not
hearing or listening to the music, the beat in particular. It
happened at a class given by some people I know and my first time
dropping by. The lady I "danced" was also a very first time (maybe
last). My style of dance is more flowing as opposed to being "rooted"
to the floor and very rhythmic I am somewhere in between. I am very
much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody, sad or
happy, fast or slow etc... I was asked if I ever was in the military
and marched, yes I was and marched at the beat of the drill sergeant
not on musical Tango beat!
Needless to say I became so frustrated I could not put together any
kind of coherent series of steps. Let me quickly add that I am very
much in the learning stages, my body is not yet very familiar with
combinations, I have to intellectualize my next move, true
improvisation is still a ways away. Could it be that concentrating,
and having to think about moves, precludes my hearing the beat? After
all humans are only able to concentrate on only one thing at the time
By "flowing" style I don't mean to be floating as in the waltz, it is
more like a glide to the next step without marking the beat.
In trouble,
Guy
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:03:30 +0100
From: Enrico Massetti <e_mass @EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Tangofilm in Arte
Johannes:
an old Swedish couple living in northern Sweden, after a full life together,
starts experiencing some problems in their relationship.
Starting learning tango, first at home in the cold and dark North, then
in Stockholm (many scenes at the Restaurant Pele), and finally in
Buenos Aires (half of the movie) they find again a renewed interest
in each other.
Very good movie, with some dancing, the premiere was at the Restaurant
Pele, in Stockholm, with many of the amateur dancers/actors attending.
Worth the time watching it, but don't expect fancy steps!
Enrico
Original Message-----
From: Schulz Johannes <j.schulz @STR.DAIMLER-BENZ.COM>
To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 1:05 PM
Subject: Tangofilm in Arte
>Hola muchachos !
>
>There is today (26.Feb ) at 22:10 a Tango documetion film on arte in
>the german TV!
>It's sweden, polish and german cooperation.
>I know nothing about the content of this film!
>
>Ciao
>
>Johannes
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:17:35 +0100
From: Anne Atheling <atheling @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: TANGO ! opens in Boston, MA...
TANGO ! the new Carlos Saura film - NOT-TO-BE-MISSED - opens on Friday,
March 12 at the Kendall Square Theater in East Cambridge.Call the
theater for screen times: (617) 494-9800.
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:16:39 -0400
From: Nancy Ingle <ningle @RHS.BREVARD.K12.FL.US>
Subject: AIRFARES TO BsAs
Dear Listers,
Have any of you used priceline.com to secure flights to Buenos Aires?
If so, would you do it again? Would you be willing to divulge the rate and
the airline you got?
Thanks for any help,
Nancy
"Dance as if no one is watching; love as if you can't be hurt. Sing tho'
no one is listening; live as if it's heaven on earth."
Author Unknown
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:32:30 -0800
From: "Richard A. deSousa" <m1aport @PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Hello Guy:
Don't be too down on yourself. I'm a beginner, too, having just taken up
Argentine tango dancing in mid January. I have the same problems you've
described. As a beginner I (and possibly you) am having the difficult
problem of learning the dance, learning the music, learning the
rhythm/timing, and putting together the combinations. Like you, none of
all that is intuitive or automatic with me, yet. I think it will take
time, perhaps a lot longer time than either you or I are willing to
admit. I think the "lady" you danced with is a snob and should have been
more charitable in her comments. Beginners like us need affirmative
comments, not putdowns, if we're to continue to learn the tango. Lucky
for me, I've only had one such incidents. By and large, all of the women
I've danced with have been supportive of my efforts to learn.
Best regards and keep your head up!
Rich deSousa
Guy Barbe wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> Need your opinions! Last night I got beat up on pretty good about not
> hearing or listening to the music, the beat in particular. It
> happened at a class given by some people I know and my first time
> dropping by. The lady I "danced" was also a very first time (maybe
> last). My style of dance is more flowing as opposed to being "rooted"
> to the floor and very rhythmic I am somewhere in between. I am very
> much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody, sad or
> happy, fast or slow etc... I was asked if I ever was in the military
> and marched, yes I was and marched at the beat of the drill sergeant
> not on musical Tango beat!
> Needless to say I became so frustrated I could not put together any
> kind of coherent series of steps. Let me quickly add that I am very
> much in the learning stages, my body is not yet very familiar with
> combinations, I have to intellectualize my next move, true
> improvisation is still a ways away. Could it be that concentrating,
> and having to think about moves, precludes my hearing the beat? After
> all humans are only able to concentrate on only one thing at the time
> By "flowing" style I don't mean to be floating as in the waltz, it is
> more like a glide to the next step without marking the beat.
>
> In trouble,
>
> Guy
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:11:15 -0700
From: Kathleen Bober <kbober @FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Guy,
I appreciate a man who can soulfully interpret the music, but I can also
get quickly frustrated with someone who does not dance with the music.
There is latitude for interpretation but you should still stay with the
rhythm. If by being "very much in the learning stages" means you are a
beginner (we are all constantly in learning stages with tango), then I
assume you are dancing with women who are also beginners. Are they the ones
who are complaining, or are you dancing with more experienced women who are
complaining? I would certainly listen to more experienced women or you
won't dance with them very often. Your partners who are beginners may have
their own frustrations and need to dance on every beat (like practicing a
piano with a metronome). There's always so much to remember and sometimes
this makes it hard to clear your head and just follow. Try to make it
easier for your partner and lead clearly.
My opinion for men who are beginning -- don't try too much at first. Learn
the basic steps well and dance them with passion. As you feel more
confident and don't have to solely focus about what your and your partner's
feet are doing then try more.
Kathleen
> From: Guy Barbe <gbarbe @SELEC.NET>
> To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Dancing by the beat only
> Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 9:41 AM
>
> Dear list,
>
> Need your opinions! Last night I got beat up on pretty good about not
> hearing or listening to the music, the beat in particular. It
> happened at a class given by some people I know and my first time
> dropping by. The lady I "danced" was also a very first time (maybe
> last). My style of dance is more flowing as opposed to being "rooted"
> to the floor and very rhythmic I am somewhere in between. I am very
> much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody, sad or
> happy, fast or slow etc... I was asked if I ever was in the military
> and marched, yes I was and marched at the beat of the drill sergeant
> not on musical Tango beat!
> Needless to say I became so frustrated I could not put together any
> kind of coherent series of steps. Let me quickly add that I am very
> much in the learning stages, my body is not yet very familiar with
> combinations, I have to intellectualize my next move, true
> improvisation is still a ways away. Could it be that concentrating,
> and having to think about moves, precludes my hearing the beat? After
> all humans are only able to concentrate on only one thing at the time
> By "flowing" style I don't mean to be floating as in the waltz, it is
> more like a glide to the next step without marking the beat.
>
> In trouble,
>
> Guy
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:43:12 -0500
From: Ian Winton <i.winton @IEEE.CA>
Subject: TANGO ! opens in Toronto, Canada
Echoing Anne Atheling:
TANGO ! the new Carlos Saura film - NOT-TO-BE-MISSED - opens on Friday,
March 5 in Toronto, Canada.
I saw it and enjoyed it at the Toronto International Film Festival.
See the ads in todays entertainment sections.
The distributor is keeping us guessing *where* it will open.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ian Winton, P. Eng. <i.winton @ieee.ca>, <i.winton @acm.org>
Licensed Consulting Engineer
Ian Winton & Associates
12 Tyson Shepway
Willowdale, Toronto
Ontario M2J 4R9
CANADA
Telephone (416) 498-7379
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:36:51 -0800
From: ramiro garcia <ramiro9 @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Guy,
---Guy Barbe <gbarbe @SELEC.NET> wrote:
> ...
> Need your opinions! Last night I got beat up on pretty good about not
> hearing or listening to the music, the beat in particular....
> ... My style of dance is more flowing: as opposed to being "rooted"
> to the floor and very rhythmic, I am somewhere in between. I am very
> much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody, sad or
> happy, fast or slow etc...
It is a presumption in our dance form that the music serves a purpose
beyond providing a pretty background during which we move. You seem to
have a firm grasp of the interpretive part of the relationship between
the steps and the music. The next thing you need to do is to build a
coherent relationship to the rhythm and the beat.
A relationship between the tempo and rhythm of the music and the steps
you take is fairly essential to almost any dance form you care to
name. You can
'float' all you want in waltz, viennese or otherwise, but still are
enjoined to do so to the beat of the music.
> ... I became so frustrated I could not put together
any
> kind of coherent series of steps. Let me quickly add that I am very
> much in the learning stages, my body is not yet very familiar with
> combinations, I have to intellectualize my next move, true
> improvisation is still a ways away.
If you had appeared to be a complete novice, struggling with the
fundamentals, your teachers would doubtless have been easier on you.
Unfortunately, they looked at you, thought, "he's ready For More," and
pressed you to dance to the beat. Cheer up. And once you get the hang
of this, there will be something else. No matter how good you get,
there's always One More Thing to pile on to what you already know.
> Could it be that concentrating, and having to think about moves,
precludes
> my hearing the beat?
Obviously, right now, it does. When you no longer have to concentrate
on every detail of the moves, you will have attention to spare for the
music.
> After all humans are only able to concentrate on only one thing at
the time.
Besided being incorrect, excuses like this hinder your learning
process a great deal.
So far, you are successfully concentrating on (task #1) maintaining a
correct dance frame (task #2) maintaining a correct tango posture
(task #3) leading the steps
(task #4) doing your own part of the step (task #5) navigating (task
#6) listening to the music and (task #6) incorporating the feeling you
get from the music
into your steps. We could add (task#7) gossiping with your partner
while you dance, if you're naughty.
Incorporating the beat of the music more strictly into your dancing is
simply One More Task (task #8) to add to the assortment you are
already carrying out.
Making excuses to explain why You Couldn't Possibly accomplish this
next task in your tango education will not get you anywhere. You can
always find reasons and excuses why you can't do something, and you
will always
be right, but you will have a miserable, limited, existence. You will
get a lot further if you try instead to find a way to accomplish a
given task. You will fail occasionally, but you will have a much
better life.
> In trouble,
"If tango was easy, everybody would do it."
ramiro
garram @wellsfargo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:27:20 -0500
From: Sharon Pedersen <pedersen @BOWDOIN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Hi Guy,
You wrote (in part):
> Need your opinions! Last night I got beat up on pretty good about not
> hearing or listening to the music, the beat in particular.
> Could it be that concentrating,
> and having to think about moves, precludes my hearing the beat?
> By "flowing" style I don't mean to be floating as in the waltz, it is
> more like a glide to the next step without marking the beat.
It makes me so sad to hear of someone getting "beat up", emotionally
or verbally or however, when coming to dance. I agree absolutely with
you, that the brain and body can only process so much input at once,
and while you're concentrating on one thing at first, everything else
will go by the wayside.
What you're experiencing is very very common.
The standard exercise for learning to hear the music is to simply
walk with your partner, both of you concentrating on the music. When
you add a step, your musicality will collapse. That's OK, keep trying
to add steps occasionally, then return to walking. Slowly over time,
your sensitivity to the beat will increase, AND your body's comfort
with the movements will increase, and you'll be able to do more and
more while still remaining dancing to the music.
You mention a "flowing" style -- I have gotten criticized for a
too-flowing style also. I'm seeking to find the "punctuations" in the
music, where I can stop and start, pause, go slowly, accelerate. This
seems to be an aesthetic that is part of tango dancing. It's part of
the music certainly. Even if the end impression to the listener is
"oh what lovely flowing dance music", I don't think it's really played
that way.
Good luck, and I hope you (and your erstwhile partner) both do
return for many happy nights of dancing!
--Sharon pedersen @bowdoin.edu
Brunswick, Maine USA
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:08:00 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Without having witnessed the events Guy described, I cannot comment
directly. Let me contribute a few observations:
Most Argentines dance on the beat most of the time. They dance
to the melody or other elements of the music sparingly and primarily
as rhythmic accents.
The concentration required to complete unfamiliar figures can keep
some individuals from moving to the beat.
Personally, I like to understand the movements before I attempt to
execute them to the beat of the music.
When dancing socially, I refrain from steps that I cannot execute
rhythmically. (Please, no flames from former partners.) ;-)
People for whom tango music is relatively unfamiliar often have a
difficult time hearing and moving to the beat.
Listening to tango music at home and in the car can improve one's
ability to hear the beat.
Simply walking to the beat of tango music that has a clear slow beat
such as most played by DiSarli and some played by Canaro and Calo
can improve one's ability to dance on the beat.
Some professors actually teach rhythm! Look for one who does.
Dancing on something other than the beat can be quite confusing to the
follower if the lead is not absolutely clear.
Establishing a connection with the follower is desirable before
deliberately deviating from the beat.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:28:36 -0800
From: David Orly-Thompson <david.orly-thompson @US.PWCGLOBAL.COM>
Subject: Message for SF Bay Area - Forever Tango
FYI to Bay Area Tangueros:
Someone just handed me a printout from Sidewalk.com saying that Forever
Tango tickets are now on sale for the period 3/16 - 4/25. They are going
to be once again at Theater On The Square.
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:59:59 -0700
From: Bruss Bowman <Bruss @QMACS.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Guy,
Remembering my own early stages just hearing the beat in the music proved
challenging. I found that there were orchestras that were easier for me to
dance to than others There is a reason that DiSarli is played at many
beginning classes and that is that the metered beat of typical DiSarli is
much easier to discern than say Pugliese, although as I progressed I learned
to appreciate the much subtler complexities of DiSarli as well.
I would recommend getting exposed to a large cross section of music as soon
as possible, DiSarli, Tanturi, DeAngelis, Troilo, Canaro, Pugliese et al.
Listen to them all without dancing and find out for yourself which ones you
can hear better than others. Once you find this music, concentrate on it
and visualize stepping to the beat. Then as you get comfortable with the
music then start actually moving ( walking ) to the music in time with the
metered beat. Note these are all things that you can do in the absence of
a partner or complex choreography. As you feel more comfortable with the
easier rhythms expose yourself little by little to the orchestras that you
have difficulty in hearing, again visualizing stepping to the beat.
This kind of practice has proved invaluable to me in learning to dance to
and with the music.
If you have difficulty in "putting together any kind of coherent series of
steps" as you stated, my recommendation would be to simplify, simplify,
simplify, even if that means you only put one foot in front of the other.
As each of us learns in a different manner the best methodology for you to
learn to dance sequences of steps to the music is something you will have to
discover yourself.
Some people work on musicality and patterns separately and then merge the
two, others learn them together. Depending on what music and/or steps you
are learning at any given time your learning methodology may change.
The danger is that you learn steps in the total absence of musicality ( note
the converse is never the case ). There are a multitude of these types of
'dancers' out there, all presumably learning from the same studio, "Jose's
Casa de Mil Pasos" ( franchises found worldwide! )where their stereo system
broke down years ago and nobody's noticed yet.
Also to note, musicality training is NOT just for leaders. IMO the very
best followers have a very intimate musical knowledge such that the dances
with them become a wonderful interaction of partnership and music.
Best Regards,
Bruss
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:16:39 -0500
From: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @FRONTIERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Guy Barbe <gbarbe @SELEC.NET>
wrote on Friday, February 26, 1999 11:41 AM:
> ... I got beat up on pretty good about not hearing or listening to the
music, the beat in particular.
> ..... My style of dance is more flowing as opposed to being "rooted"
> to the floor and very rhythmic I am somewhere in between. I am very
> much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody
It is a blessing to be able to experience the feelings invoked by the
music's melody, and I sure you mean to include all the other
emotion-grabbing aspects of tango music.
At the same time, however, there are disciplines that go with tango (as
there are with other dances), and keeping the rhythm is one of them. Others
have to do with navigation, posture, form, etc.
Rhythm doesn't mean marching in lock step like a drill team, but there has
to be a consistent relationship to the beat or it's not dancing. Your foot
doesn't have to hit the floor with every beat, and you and your partner
will not always be stepping together like marching soldiers. You can both
move off the beat at times. (The recent thread on syncopation gave some
clues as to what that means to some of us.) Nevertheless, the frame of
reference for all your movements will be the cadence of the music. You will
keep coming back to the beat from your excursions into "flowing" with the
melody. The melody may flow, but it too is anchored in the beat.
> Needless to say I became so frustrated I could not put together any
> kind of coherent series of steps.
> ... Could it be that concentrating,
> and having to think about moves, precludes my hearing the beat?
When you dance with moves that you don't have to think about, you can
concentrate more on hearing the beat, flowing with the melody, feeling the
music. You (and your partner) will find that to be infinitely more
satisfying than if you worry about putting together "coherent series of
steps."
Tangringo
____________________
Walter M. (Tangringo) Kane
Harriman, NY
oldzeid @frontiernet.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tango Lyrics in Spanish and English at
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/letras.htm
Por el fomento y progreso del Tango
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:39:21 -0500
From: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @FRONTIERNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing by the beat only
Guy Barbe <gbarbe @SELEC.NET>
wrote on Friday, February 26, 1999 11:41 AM:
> ... I got beat up on pretty good about not hearing or listening to the
music, the beat in particular.
> ..... My style of dance is more flowing as opposed to being "rooted"
> to the floor and very rhythmic I am somewhere in between. I am very
> much influenced by my feelings invoked by the music's melody
It is a blessing to be able to experience the feelings invoked by the
music's melody, and I'm sure you mean to include all the other
emotion-grabbing aspects of tango music.
At the same time, however, there are disciplines that go with tango (as
there are with other dances), and keeping the rhythm is one of them. Others
have to do with navigation, posture, form, etc.
Rhythm doesn't mean marching in lock step like a drill team, but there has
to be a consistent relationship to the beat or it's not dancing. Your foot
doesn't have to hit the floor with every beat, and you and your partner
will not always be stepping together like marching soldiers. You can both
move off the beat at times. (The recent thread on syncopation gave some
clues as to what that means to some of us.) Nevertheless, the frame of
reference for all your movements will be the cadence of the music. You will
keep coming back to the beat from your excursions into "flowing" with the
melody. The melody may flow, but it too is anchored in the beat.
> Needless to say I became so frustrated I could not put together any
> kind of coherent series of steps.
> ... Could it be that concentrating,
> and having to think about moves, precludes my hearing the beat?
When you dance with moves that you don't have to think about, you can
concentrate more on hearing the beat, flowing with the melody, feeling the
music. You (and your partner) will find that to be infinitely more
satisfying than if you worry about putting together "coherent series of
steps."
Tangringo
____________________
Walter M. (Tangringo) Kane
Harriman, NY
oldzeid @frontiernet.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tango Lyrics in Spanish and English at
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/letras.htm
Por el fomento y progreso del Tango
End of TANGO-L Digest - 26 Feb 1999 to 27 Feb 1999
**************************************************