The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 17 Feb 1999
to 18 Feb 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:00:00 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 17 Feb 1999 to 18 Feb 1999
There are 16 messages totalling 648 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. "Tango" & the Oscars
2. MILONGUERO VS. SALON (2)
3. De Buenos Aires
4. Miguel Cals
5. La Paloma
6. New Tango Homepage (Artista Plastica Argentina)
7. Tango in La Paz?
8. AT in New Orleans??
9. RE. Mayview Health Clinic milongas and events in March.
10. Tango-l archives
11. Re. The Mayview, etc., etc.
12. Searching for Info on AT Dance Style in Toronto, Montreal
13. Planet Tango milonga - 2/27/99
14. WORKSHOP IN SF - FEB. 27 - 1-4 PM, MARCELO & YANINA
15. Tango in Albuquerque
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:21:13 +0100
From: Peter Niebert <Peter.Niebert @IMAG.FR>
Subject: Re: "Tango" & the Oscars
Larry Carroll writes:
> I don't thing Carlo Saura's "Tango" has a chance of winning the
> Oscar for best foreign language film.
I am glad to hear that (did you hear the sigh of relieve?).
I did not follow the discussion of the film on the list, but now that
the topic is coming up again ....
I am sure that - like myself - the majority of Tango dancers who have
seen the film have an attitude somewhere from slight dislike up to
strong disgust. Not because it is a very boring movie, but because it
offers under the name Tango and with all the credentials of Saura as a
dance movie maker a notion of Tango which is just not ours.
And where it could be ours, i.e. where Copes dances, I was deeply
disappointed. I have not seen any of his dancing before the
separation from Maria Nieves. But surely, his dancing now has an
almost complete lack of expression. In his dances in the film and
those recent presentations with his daughter (who should rather do
something else than dance the Tango) to be seen on TV what you see is
not a man woman relation but - to put it in friendly words - an uncle
nice relation. Disgusting, really!
I do not at all object to old men dancing with young or at least much
younger women. As long as can see that they are after the woman and
the dancer, not the child.
OK, now flame me, I am prepared :-)
It is true, the movie does attract some people to Tango. For whichever
reason. I believe it to be equally true that the movie will prevent
potential Tango lovers - who went to the cinema to see some more of
the dance they heard these rumors about - from exploring it any
further.
And then the critiques. I read almost only negative critiques
concerning the "Tango Lesson", with a major comment that the film
lacks credibility. One critique expressed the dislike of Potters smile
while dancing throughout the film. But then, one only needs to go to a
milonga to see so many similar smiles of dancing women.
In "Tango" the dancers rarely smile (except for Copes' uncle grin,
yuck), they draw their knifes. Yeah, this is what the press likes.
Tango as an eternal battle between men and women with an almost
certain deadly outcome. And Schifrin has composed just the right music
to this.
On a recent milonga where a misguided DJ played Schifrin's original
music from "Tango" I was reminded of a Woody Allan quote in the
"Manhattan Murder Mystery": Something like "Every time I listen to
Wagner I feel the rising urge to invade Poland." So to paraphrase it,
whenever I dance to Schifrin's music I feel the rising urge to stab my
dance partner.
My 2p worth,
Peter
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:17:58 +0100
From: Raimund Schlie <kbb @PODEWIL.DE>
Subject: Re: MILONGUERO VS. SALON
Roger Ray wrote:
> Nancy wrote:
>
> > Give me a substantial man anyday!
>
> Walter replied:
>
> > Oh, no! Just when I finally took off those pounds and got my posture
> > straighened out, you tell me you want me to stick that pot belly out
> >there...
>
> I say:
>
> Boy, you think you've got problems? This is like the third strike agai=
nst
> me. Besides being bearded and balding (which, as one European observer
> opined a while back, makes one prone to bumper-car behavior), I'm
> practically a bantamweight bailarin ( 5'9" and < 140 lbs)
>
> On a slightly more serious note, though, I often feel as though I don't
> have quite enough "substance" to clearly communicate the lead. For
> example, there have been numerous times, when trying to lead a fwd ocho=
at
> the cruze, I've been met with:
> 1. a blank stare, followed by the question
> 2. "What do you want me to do?"
>
> Even though this scenario usually transpires when dancing for the first
> time with a follower who's unfamiliar to me, it's still pretty depressi=
ng
> to find that I still can't communicate clearly the lead of a fairly com=
mon
> figure. There's probably other failures of my technique that are at wo=
rk
> here, but it seems as though the ability to transfer momentum to the
> follower is probably one important cue that followers use as a guide.
>
> --
> Roger Ray
Hi Roger,
this is a (serious) advice from an european observer: in my experience it
doesn=B4t matter whether the couple is in the same weight category. One o=
f my
teachers is Angelika Fischer in Berlin (partner of Brigitte Winkler) who =
is
small & light, but she is REALLY leading even the tallest & heaviest
counterpart. It=B4s absolutely the same like in Taiqui or martial arts: t=
he
strength doesn=B4t come from the muscles or the absolute weight but from =
gravity
if you like: the way how you organize your skeleton in relation to gravit=
y,
where you put your centre a.s.o. A forward ocho from the cross I lead lik=
e
this: when she crossed, I open the space left from me by removing slightl=
y the
left sholder, she will shift weight from right to left, then I invite her=
to
she other side by opening the space to the right thus inviting her to do =
the
ocho and: there she is. If she wants to follow, this works.
Raimund
--
*************************************************************
Raimund Schlie Podewil - KBB
Klosterstrasse 68-70 10179 Berlin
tel (work): +49+30-247 49 750
fax (work): +49+30-247 49 700
tel (home): +49+30-85 60 34 15
email: kbb @podewil.de
*************************************************************
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:13:51 -0300
From: Tijman Liliana <lady @FIBERTEL.COM.AR>
Subject: De Buenos Aires
Hola amigos milongueros
Noticias de tango, links a los diarios locales con comentarios.
Hoy el "TANGO", en el mundo mas protagonista que nunca.. hpy hasta Saura
se siente Argentino.
"Venecia" y los ecos de Disc=E9polo
http://www.lanacion.com/99/02/10/S12.HTM
"Me siento argentino", dice Saura
http://www.lanacion.com/99/02/10/S03.HTM
"Era candidata de fierro"
http://www.lanacion.com/99/02/10/S02.HTM
La academia de baile Nominaciones al Oscar
http://www.lanacion.com/99/02/10/S01.HTM
La primera cita del Oscar. Tango se aleja..
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/09/S02.HTM
Bronca, futbol y tango
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/06/S07.HTM
Nini Marshall, una estrella compacta
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/06/S04.HTM
Oscar -Las extranjeras pisan muy fuerte
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/06/S02.HTM
Ernesto Sabato, el del tango
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/02/01/S05.HTM
Orlando Coco Dias, Docente Y Bailarin De Tango
http://www.clarin.com.ar/S=E1bado 30 de enero de 1999
Caramelitos sutidos de Enrique Santos Disc=E9polo, con la Tana
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/01/30/S10.HTM
Salvando las distancias
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/01/30/S02.HTM
Musicos crossover. , musicos en otros temas
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/01/30/S01.HTM
Piazzolla, un nominado entre las mejores chances
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/99/01/30/S03.HTM
Muchas gracias por el interes, Buenos Aires los espera
Un abrazo Milonguero
L @dy
L @dy forever like a TANGO!! (also.. LU7AUI)
ICQ 814335
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/4011/tango.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/4011/geriatria.htm
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:47:00 -0800
From: "Richard A. deSousa" <m1aport @PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Miguel Cals
BTW does anyone know how I could go about transferring my small
collection of 78 & 33 rpm phonograph records to CD format?
Richard
Richard:
Depending upon your computer's power, you could purchase a CD-RW recorder
and software to transcribe your 78 and 33 records. Yamaha, Sony, HP,and
Philips all manufacture CD-RW drives that record music on recordable CDs.
All include software to allow you to easily manage the task of transferri=
ng
your vinyl disks to CDs. Again, all this will depend upon the ability of
your current computer to use these devices. Some of these CD-RW drives a=
re
SCSI, and others are IDE/ATAPI compliant, so take your pick to match your
system. The pricess vary from $300 to as much as $500. If you have a
small collection, perhaps it would be best to go to a vendor to have the
vinyls transcribed.
Rich deSousa
Richard Lipkin wrote:
> I hope one of the tango historians on the List will provide more
> information on the Cal=F3s.
>
> One Argentine I know living in New York tells me he lived near the Cal=F3
> family. He tells me there were five brothers - all of them tango
> musicians. I have a 78 rpm record with "La cumparsita" and "Zorro gris"
> performed by a Roberto Cal=F3 - one of those brothers?
>
> BTW does anyone know how I could go about transferring my small
> collection of 78 & 33 rpm phonograph records to CD format?
>
> Richard
>
> http://www.erols.com/ezie/
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:33:10 -0500
From: "Richard A. deSousa" <m1aport @PACBELL.NET>
Subject: La Paloma
Hello Tanger Lovers:
I'm a newbie to this list, so at the risk of sounding dumb, I have a question
regarding the subject above.
I recently purchase a copy of "Two to Tango, The Tango Project, II", and one
of the dance numbers in the album is La Paloma. I seem to recall very vaguely
in my mind, as I listen to the music, that Elvis Presley sang a song to that
tune. Does anyone remember the name of the song? Thanks.
Rich deSousa
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:10:11 -0500
From: Alejandro Czneo <ninel @LATINMAIL.COM>
Subject: New Tango Homepage (Artista Plastica Argentina)
Soy una artista plastica argentina.He ganado un premio znico por mis dibujos sobre tango,los cuales fueron adquiridos por el Museo de Bellas Artes Eduardo Sivori de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires.Pertenezco a un grupo de historiadores,escritores,mzsicos y periodistas expertos en tango.Queremos contactarnos con ustedes.Deseamos organizar una red internacional con gente que investiga,estudia y ama el Tango.Me gustarma que me escribieran.
I am artist from Argentina.I have won a Single Prize by drawings on Tango,that
were acquired by Eduardo Smvori Museum of Fine Arts from Buenos Aires City.I am
a member of a group of historians,writers,musicians,and journalists,who are learned about Tango.We want to be in contact with you.We want to make an internation
al net with people who search,study and love Tango.I would like you to write me.Sincerely:Leonor Escardo
My page : http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Den/4758/index.html
________________________________________________________
http://www.latinmail.com. Tu correo gratuito en espaqol.
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:24:20 EST
From: Marge Welling <Mjwelling @AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango in La Paz?
I will be in La Paz, Mexico February 10th-24th. Does anyone know if there is
tango going on there? Thanks in advance for your help.
Marge Welling
Portland, Oregon
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 04:33:32 PST
From: Pepito La Chofa <badchioce @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: MILONGUERO VS. SALON
>Ted de San Rafael wrote:
>
>This paragraph pinpoints the problem: the name. There are
>many "older milongueros" in this world, and they dance many
>different styles of AT, not all the same. One common theme
>is they tend to dance with lots of physical contact...but
>other than that it varies across the spectrum.
>
>But there is also a certain very distinct variant of ATango
>that some folks dance and some teachers teach, and the name
>that was adopted for this variant is "milonguero style".
>Which was an unfortunate choice, since it causes so much
>confusion. Probably it should have been called something
>else, like "a-frame style".
>
>Most "milongueros" (older Argentine natives who dance
>"street style" instead of "elegant dance studio style")
>don't do this a-frame style. These are two different
>meanings of the word "milonguero", okay everybody?
>
>Which isn't surprising, coming from the same people who use
>the word "milonga" to mean either a Tango dance hall, a Tango dance
event, or the name of a particular dance that is significantly different
from Tango.
>
>So it makes sense to say "they didn't play many milongas
>at the milonga last nighjt at that new downtown milonga" and it also
makes sense to say "most of the milongueros
>I have met don't do milonguero style".
>
>-- Ted de San Rafael
Hi everybody!, I'm new to the list.
After respecfully lurking for some time, waiting for a good moment to
jump in and say a little something, today's the day!
Just to say to Ted: Your da man!
I completely agree. I don't know who ever thought of the term milonguero
to denote a style for the first time, but it I suspect they were trying
to emphasize a contrast between what people were learning in the
academies (particularly outside Buenos Aires) and what old milonga
regulars (milongueros!) had been dancing for almost half a century.
That the a-frame posture was adopted, probably means that for some
reason they took the prevailing style of some milongas del centro
(Almagro, Regine) as the norm. Or that, for the purpose of contrast,
this posture was clearly the other end of the spectrum in relation to
the prevailing open style in academies a few years ago.
By the way, I've heard some people draw a difference between salon and
milonguero styles. Can anybody tell me what the difference is?
(Categories, categories...)
Pepito la Chofa
(A "moderate a-frame" style dancer myself)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:56:09 EST
From: Andre Amberge <AAmberge @AOL.COM>
Subject: AT in New Orleans??
Dear List,
is there any Tango in New Orleans, USA?
Thanx
Andr=E9
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:21:41 EST
From: "Donna Sotiropoulos To Listserv @Mitvma.Bitnet" <VERGAD @AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: RE. Mayview Health Clinic milongas and events in March.
Thanks Alberto,.Hi List,
Actually a lot of people in the Tango community and outside the community were
responsible for the success of the event.
My hope was there could possibly be another reason to dance this beautiful
dance. I was right and I hope next year it will be even more elegant and that
we could involve the valley in the South bay and the companies to underwrite
such an event.
There were so many wonderful people that helped me and gave of their time to
mention. And you know who you are. I'm sure those same people will be there
again Some of them even came to the clinic to see what happens there.
The March events are also going to be fun and have the approval and assistance
from most of the tangeros in the bay area.
If anyone is interested in any of the events call me Donna at (650) 9383261
the Mayview health Clinic at 650 322-3486 for tickets to "Tangoing" or the
mountain View center for the performing arts(650)903-6000
Camera 3 theater only holds 300 seats, but there will be 2 show times.
Everyone can dance either before the show at 9:00pm or after the film at
7:00pm. So get your tickets as soon as you can. We would like to fill it full
of Tangeros. This could be South Bay's answer to the Cannes Film Fest.
Every $. 1.00 of every ticket Fri& Sat. goes to the health clinic.
Alberto's in Mountain View is also showing his support for the Clinic, but he
always has and that event is very special also. Members from the Tango Dance
Company of Hollywood are teaching from 7:30 to 9:00 with a milonga starting
immediately after with demos. Miller and Claudia have also given of thier
time for this benifit and the last one also. Miller will be the D.J. at this
event.
WE know we are going to have great fun at the "Tangoing " production the
Center is providing a sound system and we will be able to dance to the music
of Alberto Paz, who is willing to give of his time for this special cause.
Alberto is not only hosting the members of this famous group, but can be
contacted to provide information on their workshops while they are here.
http;www.hooked.net/~tangoman/sbfest.htm
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:07:28 -0800
From: Semiral Tuncer <semiral @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Tango-l archives
Hello everybody,
Is there a ftp access to previous tango-l files?
(Other than http://sunsite.ubc.ca/TangoBC which was down for a while
and now missing the files I am looking for)
Thanks,
-Semiral
Vancouver, BC
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:46:25 -0800
From: TangoMan <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Re. The Mayview, etc., etc.
Donna S. wrote,
>
>There were so many wonderful people that helped me and gave of their time to
>mention. And you know who you are. I'm sure those same people will be there
>again Some of them even came to the clinic to see what happens there.
>
>The March events are also going to be fun and have the approval and assistance
>from most of the tangeros in the bay area.
Thank you Donna,
You continue to show kindness and generosity.
Why don't we get the ones that don't "approve" a chance to chill out and
join the fun? I hate to see their "dissaproval" turning into sour grapes.
By the way, did we get "approval" to stay up an extra hour on Friday night? ;-)
TM
Thank you for visiting Tango at,
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:58:14 +0000
From: Keith Elshaw <elshaw @INTERLOG.COM>
Subject: Re: Searching for Info on AT Dance Style in Toronto, Montreal
Jim & Ronnie McCullough wrote:
> I have also read very enthusiastic reports of the quality of dancing
> there, especially in Montreal. Could the listmembers from those
> regions
> please enlighten me as to the similarities and differences I might
> find?
> I am wondering if there is a major difference of frame, footwork or
> rhythm. I have been lurking here for over a year and haven't seen
> mention of this topic.
Here is what I see in Montr=E9al:
Owing to a decade-long tradition of both bringing in many teachers and
regularly visiting Buenos Aires, the dancers in Montr=E9al show many
"styles." It would surprise me greatly if any dancer from anywhere
couldn't find a partner there. But you would get more because the good
dancers just adapt. Also, there are many teachers of good quality - you
can dance with them, at least. They know their stuff. You can definately
pick up a few things about other styles just from being open and dancing
with folks. Or watching.
Regarding Ronnie's query about Piazzolla music, etc., you can have it or
not in Montr=E9al ... you have the choice of other music for dancing at
the same time you can go this way in separate place.
As for Toronto, the situation is completely different ...
There have not been many teachers from the outside. Most of the local
teachers learned from the Copes style. A bit of Milonguero influence has
come in recently. Carlos Gavito thankfully touched the scene over the
last 2 years. The number of regular dancers in Toronto is growing and
something seems to be happening with traction for the first time. But
there aren't many adaptable dancers. More women than men, at that. It is
still possible to arrive in Toronto on the wrong weekend in terms of
things happening.
If it hadn't been for Cristina Rey, Maria Nieves's sister, there
wouldn't be any Tango in Toronto. Montr=E9al had a few movers and shakers
in the beginning (dating from "Tango Argentino," I believe). This
accounts for the difference in these two Canadian cities that are 550
kilometers apart.
Montr=E9al influences other cities because of it's sizeable Tango
community; it might be starting to influence Toronto, too. This is good.
=20
Name the city, people in Tango love to have visitors. No?
Toronto wouldn't rank very high on a wish list, but if you are in Canada
or live near-by, it would be nice if you could stop-in. But Montr=E9al
will satisfy anyone looking for a Tango weekend. Any weekend.
Community leaders should make it their business to visit Montr=E9al, I
think. "Just dancers" should put it near the top of their To Do list.
Keith Elshaw
=A1ToTANGO!
http://www.interlog.com/~elshaw/ttindex.html
=20
=20
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:54:23 -0800
From: TangoMan <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Planet Tango milonga - 2/27/99
Dear Friends,
This month's milonga will take place as usual at the 449 Powell Studio, 3rd
floor in San Francisco.
That night Valorie and I will be hosting the first ever milonga in
Anchorage, Alaska so we have made arrangements for L. Jean Noroian to sub in
as a host and for Marcelo Solis to teach the complimentary class and play
the music for your dancing enjoyment.
We wish we could all be together (and maybe some of you want to join us in
Anchorage) but this is perhaps the best tribute to the fantastic growth of
the Argentine Tango in our country.
We hope you have lots of fun and enjoy your milonga on that Saturday night,
wherever you happen to be.
Tangazos,
Alberto and Valorie
Thank you for visiting Tango at,
http://www.hooked.net/~tangoman/
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:39:08 EST
From: Jeanne Hill <GeneJeanne @AOL.COM>
Subject: WORKSHOP IN SF - FEB. 27 - 1-4 PM, MARCELO & YANINA
Dear List:
This is the second and final call for Marcelo & Yanina's last workshop in San
Francisco. For everyone in the SF area and proximity, this workshop is
especially provided for you. You can always show up on the day, but keeping
in mind that space is limited--by pre-registering you will be assured of
space. Workshop is at the 449 Powell St. Studio, 449 Powell St., SF, 1-4 PM,
on February 27 (Sat.)--$30 in advance and $35 at the door.
Call me, Jeanne Hill, 925 283-0191, to register.
Thanks,
Jeanne
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:13:20 -0800
From: Barbara Alexius <taitango @IO.COM>
Subject: Tango in Albuquerque
Hi, Gang,
Does anyone know anything about tango in Albuquerque? Any information about
where tango is happening or e-mail addresses of dancers in Albuquerque would
be appreciated.
Thanks.
Barbara
End of TANGO-L Digest - 17 Feb 1999 to 18 Feb 1999
**************************************************