The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 22 Dec 1999
to 23 Dec 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 03:00:03 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 22 Dec 1999 to 23 Dec 1999 (#1999-99)
There are 13 messages totalling 497 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Dancing Tango to not tango music (4)
2. not tango music
3. Ski and Tango?
4. Dancing...
5. dancing Tango to other musics (2)
6. Dancing Tango to Other Music (2)
7. <No subject given>
8. Fw: Tango for free article - city voice newspaper, Wellington, New Zealand
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:53:45 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing Tango to not tango music
Original Message-----
From: Laimute <laimute @LINTEL.LT>
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:21 PM
Subject: Dancing Tango to not tango music
>
>What do you think about dancing Tango to not tango music?
>
I guess one could dance tango to non tango music as
long as one feels immensely guilty about it from within
(without anyone else prompting this guilt) so it can not
be in poor taste.
And, I do think think that the music is the soul of tango
and that one can dance to it is sheer luck!
rajan.
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 02:03:26 -0800
From: J Lane <jlane @POP.NWNEXUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing Tango to not tango music
>From: Laimute <laimute @LINTEL.LT>
>What do you think about dancing Tango to not tango music?
...
>So, when we hear something like blues, we dance tango.
There are tango fundamentalists who will tell you that tango
can or should or must only be danced to tango music, and/or
that it can/should/must be done in a particular style.
Dancing tango to DiSarli is very different from dancing
tango to Gardel, or Canaro, or Pugliese, or Piazzola.
There is no single thing called "tango music" - there are
many different tango musics, even in Argentina.
Tango includes milonguero, salon, canyengue, fantasia,
and other styles, each with its own moods. Dancing
tango to waltz music is an old tradition.
There is no such thing as "the" tango. Tango is a family
of related dances. There are elements in common between
Carlos Copes and Mingo Pugliese, and Carlos Gavito, and
Orlando, and Susanna Miller - but it's also very easy to
tell them apart, even in silhouette, even from a considerable
distance.
Tango to blues music is further off the mainstream of the
dance than tango to Piazzola. A little bit further, anyway.
But if you get the same feeling from dancing tango to
blues that you do from one of the traditional tango music
styles...then you are dancing a variation of tango.
And if you don't get the same feeling from it...then perhaps
you are dancing something else, using tango movements. The
something else could be romantic, or silly, or almost
impossible (tango to Lithuanian folk music?), but if you
like it, then why not do it? Don't worry about what it's
called; it's dancing with your partner that's important,
not the name that someone thinks should be used for it.
I've danced tango steps to everything from blues to
bluegrass to Basie to polka. The movements work, although
it would be hard to say that the feeling of those movements
with polka music is anything like dancing tango to more
traditional tango music. It *can* be fun, though.
Ignore anyone who tells you that tango can or must only be
danced a certain way, or to a particular music. If you ask
about details, you'll probably find that they all disagree
with each other, anyway. Check the newsgroup archives for
the frequent wars over whether milonguero or salon is the
true tango, or whether or not fantasia is tango at all.
When you are dancing it, it's *your* dance - do it the way
*you* feel it should be done, to whatever music inspires you.
Jim
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:14:02 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dancing Tango to not tango music
Original Message-----
From: J Lane <jlane @pop.nwnexus.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 11:03 AM
>But if you get the same feeling from dancing tango to
>blues that you do from one of the traditional tango music
>styles...then you are dancing a variation of tango.
While we are locked up in the arguments, perhaps this
is the key...
rajan.
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:45:14 EST
From: Mitchell Levitan <WEDRIVEN @AOL.COM>
Subject: not tango music
We were dancing one night in a large open air pavillion in San Antonio, Texas
to the music of a band with acordion and strings. The dancers progressed
around the floor in a counter clockwise line of dance. The partners held each
other in close embrace. The body movement was for the most part from the
waste down. Much of the music was waltz-like in tempo. The older and more
experienced couples moved with elegance and fluidity while the younger
dancers exhibited a more vigorous approach.
This was long before we became interested in tango and the beat was more
regular than one hears in tango music. The mood was none the less romantic
and the experience was memorable. The band was cajun.
My point is that one may have easily applied tango steps and posture and
etiquette to this music and fit right in and thoroughly enjoyed oneself. To
me enjoyment is the point.
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:50:06 -0000
From: white95r <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ski and Tango?
Hi everybody,
It's that time of the year again and I'm thinking of a ski trip to the
Rockies for next year. I would love to have it all and combine some tango
dancing with my ski trip so I would love to hear some suggestions or input.
I'm thinking of a long weekend in Jan or Feb. What is my best bet to find
tango near a good ski area? We live in Atlanta so almost any place is
equally easy/difficult to get to. I know that there are some fabulous
packages of tango and skiing in Europe but I think we'll just have to stay
in the good old USA this time ;)
Manuel
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:26:15 -0500
From: Matej Oresic <matej.oresic @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Dancing...
Hello tangu-l-eros,
dancers have always learned from experiences/skills of other dancers,
and dance moves have often migrated between the dances. That's nothing
new. You can see tango show dancers doing lifts and jumps not really
common in Argentine Tango [in the original Tango Argentino Copes
prepared a choreography with lots of lifts and jumps, but after seeing
another swing-based show on Broadway and seeing how well people there
did their things.., he decided to drop it; most tango show dancers would
be better off following this example...], and so you might for example
see swing dancers taking up some catchy moves from tango.
However, dancing Argentine Tango means not just doing some common tango
moves, but experiencing them with the Argentine Tango music. It's an
emotion you can't experience with other types of music. Tango moves are
wonderful by themselves, and they might make you move to the sounds of
the washing machine in the laundromat, traffic noise during the rush
hour, or the elevator music while waiting in line in the grocery store,
yet if you are in love with Argentine Tango music and got the "swing" of
it, you will notice this just isn't the same kind of experience.
So, as I see it, there really is no problem to take few moves from tango
and apply them to some other music or noises, if it makes you feel it
fits the music and makes you feel good, but it isn't Argentine Tango...
it's just one possible interpretation of some other type of music.
Best regards,
Matej
http://lancelot.bio.cornell.edu/matej/tango/
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:34:54 -0600
From: Joe Grohens <joe @WOLFRAM.COM>
Subject: dancing Tango to other musics
Some comments from my limited experience....
Charles Roque said that dancing tango to non-tango music will
corrupt you tango dancing.
I doubt that this is true unless you never get a chance to dance
to "real" tango music. But the reverse can happen. Tango can corrupt
your other dancing.
Since about a year ago I have started being able to dance to the
music in tango. (I've been dancing tango for a little over two years.)
This ability developed as a result of three things,
principally: (1) listening daily to classic tango music, (2) having
enough basic steps under my belt that I no longer had to think
twice about such things as what foot to move and what foot is my
partner on, and what can I do to walk out of this traffic jam, and
(3) receiving an inner impression of what it means to dance with
the music, from watching a few excellent male dancers, and from
the uncanny transmission of musicality of one teacher (Carlos
Gavito).
Anyway, feeling the music becomes more and more the heart of tango
dancing for me, and as Sergio said, there is deep pleasure there.
And I feel like I'm on the right track. I put my mind in the music,
and go from one weight change to the next, with little thought for
what will come after.
As this has started to happen in my tango dancing, it has ruined
me in most other kinds of dancing (ballroom, salsa, even swing) so
that I can hardly get on the floor to dance anything without it
somewhere accidentally turning into some kind of tango. This is
frustrating from one point of view, but I sometimes decide to give
into it and dance a whole salsa or slow waltz using tango figures.
This has resulted in some unique and beautiful dances for me and
my partner. (I'm sure some people watching probably think "what
the _heck_ are they doing?".) And since the non-tango musical
context creates an expectation of non-tango steps, such dancing is
deeply dependent on sensitivity to marcation, which has been an
overall benefit to our dancing of tango per se. The main thing is
that it comes out of a heart and mind focused on feeling the music
and improvising a dance one step at a time. These dances are not
tangos. They are a salsa, a waltz, a slow 6/8 blues, done in a
weird way, and fun with no harm done that I can see.
I _am_ going to have to go back to ballroom classes to recover my
lost ability to dance "normally" to other music, and save my dance
reputation from ridicule in other circles. :-)
joe
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 14:07:16 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Dancing Tango to Other Music
A few thoughts:
1) Some purists may not like to witness others dancing tango steps to
other music and may not choose to call it tango dancing. If the
participants are having fun and are not advertising themselves as
dancing "authentic" Argentine tango, why pay attention to purists?
2) A recent discussion dealt with the difficulty that some people
have in hearing the rhythm of tango music. Dancing tango to other
music, particularly music with substantially different rhythmic
sensibilities is unlikely to help those who are still learning to hear
and dance to the rhythm of tango music.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:34:02 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw @MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: dancing Tango to other musics
Greetings friends,
I'm a liberal regarding dancing tango-style to non-tango music.
If one truly dances to the music, then obviously, it's not tango.
However, it can be great exercise in lead-and-follow all the same.
In that regard then, it can only help your tango as long as the
music is not so different that it upsets your frame as you
interpret it into movement.
In fact, when I DJ the biggest local milonga, I always have a
"milonguera/o challenge", where I dare my friends to dance tango-style
to one carefully chosen "non-tango" piece of music. I shamelessly
stole the idea from the kind folks in DC, who did something like
this when I visited there a few years ago. It's all in fun, and
all for creativity. The music I choose? There are no limits.
Last month it was a famous aria from a famous opera. Before that,
a piece for unaccompanied cello. Next time? Who knows?! The more
outrageous the choice (in good taste and temperament, of course) the
more fun.
It's not tango dancing - I agree. But it is, in my opinion, in the
spirit of tango because it places no boundaries on the dancers except
for the style that they themselves choose, it relies on the same
technical skills that can make any tango a wonderful experience,
and it encourages creativity because patterned figures just won't
fit the music.
Warm "real" tangos to all!
Frank in Minneapolis
_____________________________________________________________
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frankw @mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:29:28 -0700
From: Chas Gale <Chuck.Gale @IHSENERGY.COM>
Subject: <No subject given>
Charles Roques wrote;
"Why would anyone even want to dance to other
types of music?"
The occasional rest of ones ears from the sound of a 40 - 60 year old recording
of what amounts to a glorified concertina is just one of many reasons I can
think of.
Chas Gale
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:19:56 +0100
From: Hannes Rieger <hrieger @GMX.DE>
Subject: Re: Dancing Tango to not tango music
As long as you feel good dancing tango on other music and as long
as you are not an obstacle for people who dance the 'right' dance
to the music I see no problem. We like to dance vals cruzado to
viennese waltz, it's very pleasant (and sensational :-), but we
pay attention, not to be in the way of the other dancers. Another
amusing thing is to dance milonga to some kind of samba music.
On the other hand it causes aversion to me to dance Argentine tango
on standard tangos (or European tangos, no matter how you call it)...
Considerate ganchos
Hannes (from Germany)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:45:44 +1300
From: Alex White <alex_tangofirulete @XTRA.CO.NZ>
Subject: Fw: Tango for free article - city voice newspaper, Wellington,
New Zealand
Merry Christmas List!
and a new year of "pura pachanga"
For those of you interested here is an article published in our city's
newspaper - about a month ago.
Cheers
Alex White
P.S. - I'm going to Cita-2000.!!
yey!! - My friends (and "soon to be" friends) I'll be in Argentina between
10 March to 10 Abril. - with my bandonesn!
don't forget to register before 31 dec to save US$50.
Find out more about it on: www.cosmotango.com
____________________________________
> > Try Tango for Free!
> > By CATHERINE JEFFCOAT
> > Get a free lesson in the dance that all Wellington
> > is talking about, when
> > local dance teacher Alex White holds a class for all
> > comers (teenagers and
> > adults) this Saturday.
> > This year, the Tango scene in Wellington has
> > experienced a surge of interest
> > as people catch on to the notoriously sensual dance,
> > characterised by its
> > haunting melodies and elegant moves.
> > White wants to encourage all those who have heard
> > about it but never tried
> > it to come along to a free beginners class. He says
> > the tango is simple to
> > learn, with just 1 basic pattern which you can add
> > embellishments to as you
> > progress.
> > It's not just about the women following a male lead,
> > but an "on-going
> > conversation between two bodies".
> > He's very excited about the tango scene in
> > Wellington, saying there are now
> > enough people to sustain a regular calendar of
> > events.
> > There are dance parties fortnightly at the
> > Performing Arts Centre and
> > monthly at the Grand, among others.
> > Alex has taught tango for a couple of years in
> > Wellington, ever since he
> > spent a year on exchange in Argentina, and he made a
> > recent trip back there
> > to attend the International Tango Congress in Buenos
> > Aires. This was an
> > intensive course, featuring 4 classes per
> > day followed by 5+ hours
> > of practice and social dancing.
> > As well as teaching adults four nights a week, White
> > has started childrens
> > classes at a couple of local schools. These have
> > been a big success and he
> > is keen to hold general childrens classes in tango,
> > salsa and merengue. He
> > describes the children as quick learners and very
> > enthusiastic.
> > * Free Tango class: Tararua Tramping Club Hall, 4
> > Moncrieff St, off
> > Elizabeth St. Mt Victoria, Wellington
> > Saturday 9 October, 3:30 to 4:30pm
> > Weekly beginners classes by Alex White on:
> > Thursdays - 6:30pm - Brooklyn
> > Saturdays - 5pm - Mt Victoria
> > Sundays - 6pm - Lower Hutt
> > Contact: Alex White
> > Phone: 021 254 3891 or 567-9406 hm
> > e:mail: alex_tangofirulete @yahoo.com
> > website: http://come.to/tango_firulete
> >
> >
Alex White
TANGO FIRULETE
alex_tangofirulete @xtra.co.nz
Visit me: http://come.to/tango_firulete
Ph: +(64 4) 567-9406
021 254 3891
Tango classes; Tues/Thurs/Sats/Suns.
Ask about kids courses :)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:49:17 -0600
From: Naomi Bennett <Naomiben @SWBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing Tango to Other Music
When I was in B.A. last October, I saw a very good young dancer mix it up
with tango moves and rap together. It was something. Here in Austin,
there is also a very good couple that mix up tango and west coast swing.
It is very creative. It's amazing what very accomplished dancers can do
with their experience of music and other dance forms. This blending and
mixing up will advance tango to another level someday just as canyengue is
an older version of today's tango.
Naomi Bennett
Austin, TX
End of TANGO-L Digest - 22 Dec 1999 to 23 Dec 1999 (#1999-99)
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