The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 15 Dec 1999
to 16 Dec 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:00:21 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 15 Dec 1999 to 16 Dec 1999 (#1999-92)
There are 8 messages totalling 261 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Learning Tango
2. learning tango
3. Pettiness
4. learning the tango
5. Learning Tango and Copes (2)
6. Florencia's gifts
7. argentina
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:06:00 -0500
From: Michael Ditkoff <Michael.B.Ditkoff @USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: Learning Tango
Phil Seyer wrote an interesting message about learning tango by video
taping his footwork and the footwork of his teacher and partner.
It may work for him. I know it wouldn't work for me. IMHO, Phil is
looking in the wrong place to tape. Tango is not led with the feet but
with frame. Also, since the man is leading the woman, taping the man's
footwork doesn't indicate what the woman is doing.
My teacher has pounded into me that the dance revolves around the
woman, that HER steps are MORE IMPORTANT than my steps. My steps are
in response to what I want her to execute.
If I was videotaping myself leading ochos, my feet would be positioned
to step sideways. The tape would be missing that I rotated the woman 90
degrees so that she will step forwards or backwards with the same foot
I'll be stepping. (Ochos are done on cross feet.)
I went to a tango festival and wrote down my steps. When I returned to
Washington, DC; I showed the list to my teacher. "What are you trying
to lead?" Since I didn't write that down, I forgot. That taught me to
include the woman's steps in my notes.
Good luck, Phil. I hope your plan works!
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:59:03 EST
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: learning tango
I find that there are so many techniques to learning the tango
I have found that one of the easiest things that help me in learning tango is
to learn what the ladies steps are. If I learn what it would take to make the
follower do thoughts steps, then my step will come naturally
keep dancing
Tim
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:45:54 EST
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Pettiness
Laura Stevens wrote:
<<<FYI, the "genius" uses the 7-count basic, and you would be in for a
surprise revelation if your partner danced just once with Juan Carlos or
simply was led into a forward ocho.
"Not everything that shines is gold.">>>>
This is the kind of silly petty remark that makes the tango list so tiresome.
Mark's point had nothing to do with 7-steps or 8-steps or 29-steps. (The so
called "eight count basic" is totally arbitrary anyway and nothing more than
a pedagogic tool to teach the step as a closed form, making it hopefully more
coherent and easier to understand for beginners.) He was talking about the
quality of movement in Copes's steps, something few people see because they
are so jaded by pyrotechnics. One could learn a lot from just watching him
walk across the room. What is important about Copes is that he has never
forsaken the basic tenets of movement just for the sake of creating a flashy
show. And that is also what so many of us admire to this day. He moves
beautifully, pure and simple. It is irrelevant what step he chooses to do or
not to do.
Cheers,
Charles
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:04:48 EST
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: learning the tango
I think everyone out there can one technique that helps us learn the tango
One that I have found that helps me is, to learn what the ladies step are, or
should be, instead of what mine are. If I learn what it would take to make
the lady do those steps, go in that certain direction, or turn, I found my
steps will come naturally.
Keep on dancing
Tim Pogros (TimmyTango)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:54:59 -0800
From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICE.COM>
Subject: Re: Learning Tango and Copes
Michael Ditkoff wrote:
> My teacher has pounded into me that the dance revolves around the woman, that HER steps are MORE IMPORTANT than my steps. My steps are in response to what I want her to execute.
>
I beleive that the dance revolves around the floor, Michael, and woman's steps are in response to man's lead. Try not to take too much "pounding" from your "teacher".
Timothy Pogros wrote:
>One that I have found that helps me is, to learn what >the ladies step are, or should be, instead of what mine are.
>
I believe that woman's steps are: back, side, forward. Correct, Timothy?
Charles Roques wrote about Copes:
>He moves beautifully, pure and simple.
I believe that Copes walks on the balls of his feet as opposed to "heels first". Will you confirm it, Charles?
Happy tango walking!
Joe Camper.
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:35:05 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw @MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Florencia's gifts
Greetings Friends,
I'm writing to express to the list my appreciation for the tango
teaching of Florencia Taccetti. Florencia visited Minneapolis
for two separate weeks during her recently-concluded teaching
tour. There is much to admire about this dancer. As a recommendation,
allow me to mention just three of her gifts.
First, Florencia possesses, demonstrates and teaches exquisite
technique. Beautiful walking is such an elusive skill for beginners,
yet so fundamental. Some teachers can't or won't endeavor to make new
students concentrate on their walk. In Minneapolis we needed it,
and Flor delivered. Second, during workshops Florencia is all business
all the time. I appreciate that. I think that other serious
students also appreciate an orderly class. Third, with unique clarity,
Florencia's methods demonstrated the *dynamic* feeling of the movements.
Once the students sensed these feelings, they internalized the material
with greater ease, and danced more cleanly and with nicer style. Even
students who initially were somewhat overloaded are now (2 weeks later)
showing significant progress. The "little" insights mean so much, and
Florencia has so many.
Florencia teaches serious tango. It was a wonderful experience to have
her visit!
With best regards to my fellow listero/as,
Frank in Minneapolis
_____________________________________________________________
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frankw @mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:01:32 -0800
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Learning Tango and Copes
Original Message -----
From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICE.COM>
snip
> I beleive that the dance revolves around the floor, Michael, and woman's
steps are in response to man's lead. Try not to take too much "pounding"
from your "teacher".
snip
> I believe that woman's steps are: back, side, forward. Correct, Timothy?
_________________________________________________________________
Joe, I believe that Michael and Timmy both were making the point that it is
more important to learn to lead (and follow) and to concentrate on the
womans movements rather than to learn some series of steps or to watch the
feet of the leader (and follower). Actually they explained that in the parts
of their posts that you did not quote. Anyway, as I recall, the whole thread
was a response to Phil Seyer's plan about learning tango by video taping his
footwork and the footwork of his teacher and partner.
Michael and Timothy are correct in that it is far more useful to learn to
lead and follow than to try to memorize any sequence of steps. I've seen
what happens to single people who try to learn in a similar manner, by
watching instructional videos and mimicking the movements of the teachers
without learning what really is taking place. Usually, the guy will learn a
sequence of steps and movements but when he tries to apply them with a
partner, the whole thing comes out ridiculous. Here either of two things
(among many) can happen. One is that he will blame the follower for not
"doing it right" (after all, he is doing exactly what the instructor in the
video did ;-)). Or he will ask a flesh and blood teacher to help him (or
her) work it out.
Things can work out a little better when a couple tries to learn from
videos. Since they work together they might actually learn to mimic the
couple of instructors so the sequence comes out looking OK (from the
outside). Of course, when they try to replicate their success with other
partners, they will generally have problems too. Of course, this is only
true if the students try to replace real teaching with videos or other such
aids. If the students do as timothy and Michael suggest, and learn to move
well, and to lead and follow (with real teachers hopefully) they can use
videos to great advantage.
Oh yeah, Copes is great. He is a fabulous dancer and a true icon of tango.
As I recall, I've seen him move and show a walk that stresses landing on the
balls of the feet rather than the heels. OTOH, I've seen some very talented
dancers and teachers show a walk that lands on the heels first. These are
two different styles but they each have their advantages (and arguably,
their negative points).
Regards,
Manuel
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:22:36 -0800
From: phyllis victory <victory @MARS.ARK.COM>
Subject: argentina
hola list;
has anyone stayed in bsas for any length of time and worked there? just
wondering how difficult it is to live and work (and of course, tango!). are
work visa's necessary?
ciao, phyllis
Make the impossible possible, the possible easy,
and the easy elegant. - - - Moshe Feldenkrais
End of TANGO-L Digest - 15 Dec 1999 to 16 Dec 1999 (#1999-92)
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